Tee ay eye
Smash Hero
some people think nair is the bane of marth players
some people think nair *****
some people think nair *****
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Q&A "Everyone Look At Me!" The Marth Video Critique Thread.
- Thread starter P. O. F.
- Start date
Fortress | Sveet
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Nair is a **** move. There are so many air traps you can use it for :D
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
SH nair to hit people from below platforms looks cool.
Niko45
Smash Master
A lot of lower level players use nair wrong because when they don't know what to do they just throw it out there because it's marth's longest lasting hitbox in hopes that the opponent will just run into it or something.
But in general it has great use if you're using it correctly and in the correct matchups. I'm particularly fond of it's shield stabbing capabilities and the lucrative comboing I get out of it at mid %.
Saying nair is bad is like saying shield grabbing is bad. Just have to know when and where to use it.
But in general it has great use if you're using it correctly and in the correct matchups. I'm particularly fond of it's shield stabbing capabilities and the lucrative comboing I get out of it at mid %.
Saying nair is bad is like saying shield grabbing is bad. Just have to know when and where to use it.
Fortress | Sveet
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^ that.
I also like to use it sometimes when i want to fade away from a shield. The first hit covers the rise while you fade and the second reapplies the pressure as you land.
I also like to use it sometimes when i want to fade away from a shield. The first hit covers the rise while you fade and the second reapplies the pressure as you land.
TheCrimsonBlur
Smash Master
Yeah, but, just for clarification I'd like to know which you are doing. I knew you could ASDI in your initial dash, but I didn't think you could CC.
Besides, you can CC Fox's nair to a grab up till ~50. I don't think ASDI lasts that long (until 30 or something), so I think distinguishing the two would be useful.
Fortress | Sveet
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Technically speaking, out of your dash dance, it would be ASDI down. I don't think those numbers are right, but i think the general theory is correct. Crouching alone is supposed to have an effect on stun and knockback (even brawl has this feature) and should reduce the hitstun and make the knockdown percent more than then just ASDI would, but most of the "CC effect" is from the ASDI keeping you grounded.
TheCrimsonBlur
Smash Master
Oh OK good, so I haven't been terribly wrong about a core gameplay mechanic all these years lol.
But I suppose you are right. I should try pressing down regardless of whether I am in initial dash or not..ASDI is still really good. I'm curious to see the difference in % (I know my CC number is right, but I dunno the ASDI number) for CC and ASDI though.
But I suppose you are right. I should try pressing down regardless of whether I am in initial dash or not..ASDI is still really good. I'm curious to see the difference in % (I know my CC number is right, but I dunno the ASDI number) for CC and ASDI though.
OverLord
Smash Ace
Numbers got no feelings! Where's the HEART!?
Dart!
Smash Master
oh i wasn't saying you were bad, i'm just saying the move choice was definitely not what you want for the matchup.
Niko45
Smash Master
Epic No Johns this weekend. I did pretty well, had my moments but had my share of disappointments as well. Vids coming soon.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Looking forward to it.
Kadano
Magical Express
Bracket:
Dan vs Kadano - 1
Dan vs Kadano - 2
Dan vs Kadano - 3
Dan vs Kadano - 4
What I already noticed:
1) Approach only with Nair and grab; I guess I should use more Dtilt?
2) Too many inappropriate Fsmashes
3) Upthrow-> Upair incorrect DI. I understand it like that: DI the upthrow behind them and the upair in the opposite direction I DIed the upthrow in. Or is there more to it?
4) Wavedash OOS always messed up (I always rolled accidentally)
5) I've fallen for his baits too often and recovered high
6) My timing at edgeguarding the illusion is really bad
7) I always Fsmash after a Dtilt hits his shield instead of grabbing
8 ) I didn't wait long enough when trying to techchase
Dan vs Kadano - 1
Dan vs Kadano - 2
Dan vs Kadano - 3
Dan vs Kadano - 4
What I already noticed:
1) Approach only with Nair and grab; I guess I should use more Dtilt?
2) Too many inappropriate Fsmashes
3) Upthrow-> Upair incorrect DI. I understand it like that: DI the upthrow behind them and the upair in the opposite direction I DIed the upthrow in. Or is there more to it?
4) Wavedash OOS always messed up (I always rolled accidentally)
5) I've fallen for his baits too often and recovered high
6) My timing at edgeguarding the illusion is really bad
7) I always Fsmash after a Dtilt hits his shield instead of grabbing
8 ) I didn't wait long enough when trying to techchase
Kadano
Magical Express
Bring
Up
My
Post
Up
My
Post
Archangel
Smash Hero
1.bumping is illegal.
2.you've already taken the fun out of it
2.you've already taken the fun out of it
Fortress | Sveet
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Ill be perfectly honest, i don't really watch many matches anymore, but when you've already critiqued yourself i dont really feel the need to critique you for you.
Niko45
Smash Master
No Johns vids are going to take a while, what else is new.
In the meantime tho, I just want to post this (cause I know he'd never post it) because I think this is a real clinic on how to fight Falco with Marth.
HBK vs Stricnyne
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DxQjhDTjkg
In the meantime tho, I just want to post this (cause I know he'd never post it) because I think this is a real clinic on how to fight Falco with Marth.
HBK vs Stricnyne
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DxQjhDTjkg
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
IMHO Stric is a little too aggressive in the Marth matchup.
Niko45
Smash Master
I think he varies between being too aggressive and too passive, but yea he's not particularly great at the matchup like he is vs spacies. He's still a good Falco though which is plenty hard enough (-_-) even if the matchup isn't his best.
He's also not nearly as bad at it as HBK makes him look. :D
He's also not nearly as bad at it as HBK makes him look. :D
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
I really really want to see HBK against the wildcard spacies, like Colbol, Forward, any Canadian spacey, DruggedFox, Axe's Falco, etc.
Niko45
Smash Master
He'd tap!
Except for Axe maybe but my money'd still be on Heart Break Kid.
Except for Axe maybe but my money'd still be on Heart Break Kid.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
I'm just saying they'd make for some really hype matches.
Max?
Smash Champion
I've come to realize that if you live in a region that isn't Tristate or SoCal, I probably don't care.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Um ... AZ?
Zivilyn Bane
Smash Master
There's lot's of good players in other regions dude
Niko45
Smash Master
Don't do it....it's a trap.
Fortress | Sveet
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who are you again?
OverLord
Smash Ace
^ That avatar.
mers
Smash Ace
So this has to do with HBK vs Stricnyne AND nair. Lookit me being on topic.
So you know that situation when you've got your opponent popped up above you and you know you can hit them with another aerial, but you won't be able to make a combo out of it? The obvious choice is to push them offstage for edgeguarding.
My question is, which is better for that moment: nair or slightly-charged neutral-B? I've seen people use both. I usually end up nairing, but I wanted to know if I was missing out on anything.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DxQjhDTjkg#t=07m38s
Here's HBK choosing nair vs Stricnyne, if that helps you visualize the situation.
So you know that situation when you've got your opponent popped up above you and you know you can hit them with another aerial, but you won't be able to make a combo out of it? The obvious choice is to push them offstage for edgeguarding.
My question is, which is better for that moment: nair or slightly-charged neutral-B? I've seen people use both. I usually end up nairing, but I wanted to know if I was missing out on anything.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DxQjhDTjkg#t=07m38s
Here's HBK choosing nair vs Stricnyne, if that helps you visualize the situation.
Fortress | Sveet
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if you nair, make sure the 2nd hit will hit. Lots of people DI the first hit like fox's uair.
Druggedfox
Smash Champion
I beg to differ
That said, it was good to see HBK back in action; I'd been wondering since apex (I think was last I saw him) what had happened to him. It'll be great to see a really good marth putting in work.
Niko45
Smash Master
I'd like to see HBK against like Lucky or Zhu. Idk what "wild card" spacies are, but **** it, give him the top level spacies!
Dark Hart
Rejected by Azua
ColBol > HBK
Niko45
Smash Master
doubtful .
Max?
Smash Champion
Quoted for emphasis.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
What's the record in sets between HBK and Jman?
Max?
Smash Champion
Completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
I'm just trying to get an idea of how he matches up against top space animals, since y'all are rejecting the possibility that a less than top level player could take him down.
Niko45
Smash Master
I don't know the record but I'm sure it's pretty bad.
Basically he's dominated every space animal he's ever played that wasn't Jman.
He's still imo the 2nd biggest threat to Jman in our region behind Hax.
I've seen him beat Jman before, it just was a while ago and is rare.
Basically he's dominated every space animal he's ever played that wasn't Jman.
He's still imo the 2nd biggest threat to Jman in our region behind Hax.
I've seen him beat Jman before, it just was a while ago and is rare.
Max?
Smash Champion
@ Chival, That kind of thought process is the big reason why smashboards sucks, and you aren't the only one who has it.