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Q&A "Everyone Look At Me!" The Marth Video Critique Thread.

Niko45

Niko45

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ChivalRuse said:
Haha, Dart!

Niko, I know it wasn't recorded. I know pretty much everything about smash videos.

I just wanted to know what went down in your own words.
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Uh it was all Marth vs Fox and I think it was like a 1 stock on BF and then a 2 stock on FoD. As far as how he was playing he wasn't SDing or flubbing tech skill or doing anything like that that would make it incredibly free for Marth so I felt pretty content with the results. I didn't detect anything was wrong with him until he said something afterwards. I understand if he felt he wasn't at his best, though. I'm also like 10x better against Fox than I am at any other matchup really (for no real reason, I don't play against a fox main regularly or anything).

Dart! said:
Ok, well do i or anybody else really need to say anything about the Stric9 set other than...that SD.
I can't say for sure but you seemed a bit jittery, nervous. you were too cautious when you needed to attack which stems from the nerves quite a bit.
I will honestly john for you and say you were off this set a lot. Normally i see you and the other top marths move quickly and calculated in this matchup.

imo this matchup is still 60-40 us
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Meh, you must just **** Falco or something Dart. That's like saying Marth is to Falco as Sheik is to Marth. No waaaaaaaaaay. :/ But yea that SD was so bad. First tourney set in 4 months. The nerves come back hard. He was recovering at the point where I wasn't sure if he could make the stage or not and I was just indecisive and screwed it up. That's nice of you to say I'm one of the top Marths but I really don't think I'm in that conversation yet. Need to get out more like HBK said. :(
 
Max?

Max?

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Niko, you are like, the only Top Marth in the US. Or rather, let me rephrase that. You're the only top Marth in the US that's active/that matters.

Also, Marth vs. Falco is at least even, if not in Falco's favor.
 
MasterShake

MasterShake

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Max? said:
Also, Marth vs. Falco is at least even, if not in Falco's favor.
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I agree with this and think it's also true for captain falcon (except marth vs falcon might be really even).

I lost to Lord and HMW at a recent tourney, both of em played Falco. Campy/non aggressive Falcos. What do.
 
Fortress | Sveet

Fortress | Sveet

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I agree that falco has an edge on marth. i've heard m2k say the same thing (but he has said lots of things over time)
 
Tee ay eye

Tee ay eye

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Max? said:
Niko, you are like, the only Top Marth in the US. Or rather, let me rephrase that. You're the only top Marth in the US that's active/that matters.

Also, Marth vs. Falco is at least even, if not in Falco's favor.
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Whaaaaaat?
 
C

.Chipmunk.

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Marth vs Falco is all about the lasers. If the Marth can handle it, it's his advantage. If he can't, it's Falco's.
I play Falco similarly to how I play vs Peach. Lots of full jumps. Cause for some reason, my best matchups are Jiggs and Peach.
 
Archangel

Archangel

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.Chipmunk. said:
Marth vs Falco is all about the lasers. If the Marth can handle it, it's his advantage. If he can't, it's Falco's.
I play Falco similarly to how I play vs Peach. Lots of full jumps. Cause for some reason, my best matchups are Jiggs and Peach.
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I agree about the lasers 100%. As for Fool Jumps I do them alot but I've found myself in those situations when you have to choose to (A) Use another jump and risk being caught with no jump or (B) take the hit from the opponent. I hate that situation lol.

I thought puff was a good match-up for me. Then I played H-box...and I realized Marth vs Puff is 100-0 in puff's favor!!!!!!!!!!!:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
 
C

.Chipmunk.

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Spam_arrows said:
I agree about the lasers 100%. As for Fool Jumps I do them alot but I've found myself in those situations when you have to choose to (A) Use another jump and risk being caught with no jump or (B) take the hit from the opponent. I hate that situation lol.

I thought puff was a good match-up for me. Then I played H-box...and I realized Marth vs Puff is 100-0 in puff's favor!!!!!!!!!!!:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
Click to expand...
If your jumps are spaced well enough, I don't think you really have to worry about it that much. I don't think the double jump is all that risky vs falco because he really is an up to down comboer instead of a left to right one. You'll eventually hit the ground and get your jump back, just have to be ready to tech. Falco falls so fast that if you full jump with Marth you are guaranteed to be coming down on him while he is on the ground. Usually to some sort of missed laser, etc.

As far as puff goes, the key for Marth is actually 2 things. Spacing as with -every- matchup, and patience (specifically within shield). I suppose you can throw in good OoS options, but I've played a planking Jiggs, a camping Jiggs, and an aggressive Jiggs. It's all the same I think. I love to shield, wait for the Jiggs to hold down to try to bait a shieldgrab so they can rest, then just wave dashing back and forward smashing. Too good. lol

Palpi said:
I full jump too much...it is my worst habit :(
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If the match up requires alot of full jumps, I usually jump with the joystick instead of X or Y. Full Jumping is safer than most people realize anyway, especially with Marth because you can throw out a fair on the way up, and still have plenty of time to throw out an additional move while still in the air.
 
Dart!

Dart!

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Niko45 said:
Uh it was all Marth vs Fox and I think it was like a 1 stock on BF and then a 2 stock on FoD. As far as how he was playing he wasn't SDing or flubbing tech skill or doing anything like that that would make it incredibly free for Marth so I felt pretty content with the results. I didn't detect anything was wrong with him until he said something afterwards. I understand if he felt he wasn't at his best, though. I'm also like 10x better against Fox than I am at any other matchup really (for no real reason, I don't play against a fox main regularly or anything).



Meh, you must just **** Falco or something Dart. That's like saying Marth is to Falco as Sheik is to Marth. No waaaaaaaaaay. :/ But yea that SD was so bad. First tourney set in 4 months. The nerves come back hard. He was recovering at the point where I wasn't sure if he could make the stage or not and I was just indecisive and screwed it up. That's nice of you to say I'm one of the top Marths but I really don't think I'm in that conversation yet. Need to get out more like HBK said. :(
Click to expand...
Max? said:
Niko, you are like, the only Top Marth in the US. Or rather, let me rephrase that. You're the only top Marth in the US that's active/that matters.

Also, Marth vs. Falco is at least even, if not in Falco's favor.
Click to expand...
MasterShake said:
I agree with this and think it's also true for captain falcon (except marth vs falcon might be really even).

I lost to Lord and HMW at a recent tourney, both of em played Falco. Campy/non aggressive Falcos. What do.
Click to expand...
Sveet said:
I agree that falco has an edge on marth. i've heard m2k say the same thing (but he has said lots of things over time)
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getting the cold shoulder from my fellow marth mains huh? i'm wounded.

yeah i really know the matchup well. it is what it is though
 
Archangel

Archangel

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.Chipmunk. said:
If your jumps are spaced well enough, I don't think you really have to worry about it that much. I don't think the double jump is all that risky vs falco because he really is an up to down comboer instead of a left to right one. You'll eventually hit the ground and get your jump back, just have to be ready to tech. Falco falls so fast that if you full jump with Marth you are guaranteed to be coming down on him while he is on the ground. Usually to some sort of missed laser, etc.

As far as puff goes, the key for Marth is actually 2 things. Spacing as with -every- matchup, and patience (specifically within shield). I suppose you can throw in good OoS options, but I've played a planking Jiggs, a camping Jiggs, and an aggressive Jiggs. It's all the same I think. I love to shield, wait for the Jiggs to hold down to try to bait a shieldgrab so they can rest, then just wave dashing back and forward smashing. Too good.

I'm not saying Never fool jump. I just think constantly fool jumping will get you caught vs a few characters that are able to take advantage of it. Vs Puff....what you say sounds good but vs good/gay puff it is a bit more difficult to pull off. However it's all you can do.
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If the match up requires alot of full jumps, I usually jump with the joystick instead of X or Y. Full Jumping is safer than most people realize anyway, especially with Marth because you can throw out a fair on the way up, and still have plenty of time to throw out an additional move while still in the air.
 
C

.Chipmunk.

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Confusing text is confusing. Lol. I get what you are trying say, even if you put it in with my quote.

Spam_Arrows said:
I'm not saying Never fool jump. I just think constantly fool jumping will get you caught vs a few characters that are able to take advantage of it. Vs Puff....what you say sounds good but vs good/gay puff it is a bit more difficult to pull off. However it's all you can do.
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I agree with you on the full jumps, but the characters that -can- take advantage of it best usually get ***** by the short hop approach so it's all good. Falco is hella gay to approach because you can't just sword the lasers and be done with them like you can with several other projectiles. Peach's danger is that she can dash attack underneath Marth's short hop, and the range is great enough that she can stay out of the range of fair and still hit with the push, so full jumping is pretty good against her.

I can't really say vs the Puff thing. I've played M2K's Puff a bunch, and he's used a variety of tactics against me and I still don't find it that challenging. When he starts to expect the crouch bait he won't crouch, and then I can shieldgrap pretty good. It's all about reacting. Another good thing Marth can do is dash grab vs Jiggs, since the grab box starts at Marth's back foot it will still grab a crouched Puff. I wish I had some matches recorded so I could show you what I'm talking about. I've gotten alot better since my last videos.
 
Zivilyn Bane

Zivilyn Bane

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Spam_arrows said:
If the match up requires alot of full jumps, I usually jump with the joystick instead of X or Y. Full Jumping is safer than most people realize anyway, especially with Marth because you can throw out a fair on the way up, and still have plenty of time to throw out an additional move while still in the air.
Click to expand...
I jump with the control stick a lot in those situations as well. And others.

I too like full jump, but some characters it's really bad against. Like a good ganon or shiek.
 
stelzig

stelzig

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Hey guys, lately i've been copping out to sheik alot, but I started using marth a bit again last weekend. Quality in this match isn't too good, but advice is appreciated :)
http://www.justin.tv/makvaerk/b/283474884

I used my spare controller first match because I had some problems with my normal controller/"lucus controlleren" earlier (I think I might have to retire it soon), but switch for the second match because I had trouble smash DIing the Uairs (and dairs I guess, but I was thinking most about Uairs :p)
 
Tee ay eye

Tee ay eye

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VS Rubyiris (I'd like critique here, even though I won, I still did a handful of things wrong):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TqHhm76k7s#t=12s

VS OkamiBW (Same deal with the Rubyiris set. Help me with this MU)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjO2F1EF4F8#t=46s

VS Forward (Sorta same deal... I don't feel like I gave away free mistakes vs Forward, he's just hella smart)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOMAiOP23_Q#t=1m13s

VS GamerGuitarist7 (help me with this MU)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Lr3wmihQ7Y

VS Axe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1a7dhRn7XN4
 
Dart!

Dart!

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trying to be too fancy. that's alot of what i saw. especially vs falcon. so much jumping at him while he's recovering and blowing the edgeguard costed you. if you're gonna jump at him do it when he's paralel with the stage and before he lifts off from his up b
 
Archangel

Archangel

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Dart! said:
trying to be too fancy. that's alot of what i saw. especially vs falcon. so much jumping at him while he's recovering and blowing the edgeguard costed you. if you're gonna jump at him do it when he's paralel with the stage and before he lifts off from his up b
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This. You should have won vs GG7 but it seemed to me that at times when you could either safely win or collect footage for Tipping an Illusion 2. you choose to go for the second option.
 
Niko45

Niko45

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Sheik: You should dtilt approach grounded sheiks more. Okami is ground heavy and takes advantage of your frequent fair approaching. He shields and rolls behind you, cc dtilts, etc. Challenge him with fair once you've picked up on his jumping/platform waveland patterns.

Falcon: I think if you really look at it the major place GG7 is beating you is with you on the ledge. You ledgehop fair a lot and he's just spacing bairs and grabs around that all day, leading to brutal punishes. I noticed shieldbreaker was working a lot cause you were spacing yourself closer to the edge so I think if you wavelanded in place right at the edge you would get around those punishes he's looking for.

In general on stage your spacing is pretty nasty but you seem to get in the most trouble from attacking the top platform. Okami and Ruby particularly liked hanging out up there and you went up there a bit aggressively I think. Force them to come down or at least wait for them to kind of DO something up there before you go up cause they just stood there and reacted way ahead of time to your full jumps, getting you out of position.
 
Tee ay eye

Tee ay eye

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Spam_arrows said:
This. You should have won vs GG7 but it seemed to me that at times when you could either safely win or collect footage for Tipping an Illusion 2. you choose to go for the second option.
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As far as I'm planning, there is never going to be a "Tipping an Illusion 2"

it's going to be called "TAI 2 -- Tipping Another Illusion"

What do you mean, though? I don't try to go out of my way to look cool. I just... do. I just swing my sword and hope it hits, lol. How am I supposed to edgeguard Falcon? Please tell me, cuz I'm sick of having to work five times harder for the kill than he does.
 
Archangel

Archangel

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Tee ay eye said:
As far as I'm planning, there is never going to be a "Tipping an Illusion 2"

it's going to be called "TAI 2 -- Tipping Another Illusion"

What do you mean, though? I don't try to go out of my way to look cool. I just... do. I just swing my sword and hope it hits, lol. How am I supposed to edgeguard Falcon? Please tell me, cuz I'm sick of having to work five times harder for the kill than he does.
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Your looking at it the wrong way. You've got a sword and he's got...fists and hands. You've got range...make him respect it!

As far as killing Falcon goes. Neutral B is actually much underused IMO. Just space it and charge...even if falcon goes above you the move has a hitbox slightly behind it.
 
Fortress | Sveet

Fortress | Sveet

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grab edge. as falcon comes high and down, ledgehop bair on reaction to him going to the edge then tip/grab/dair->tip/tipfair->tip/ect him on stage if he goes there. Or just stand near the edge and fsmash. If he comes low, grab edge and go from there.
 
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