Fortress | Sveet
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Yeah that was a pretty **** move spam. I didn't even watch the video.
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Q&A "Everyone Look At Me!" The Marth Video Critique Thread.
- Thread starter P. O. F.
- Start date
Beat!
Smash Master
**** move indeed.
Niko45
Smash Master
That peach was coming down with bairs all dayyyyyyyyy
JediSange
Smash Apprentice
I mean, but it only worked because I didn't play to the matchup. Watching that video only reassured me of my MU guide, lol. Like the spacing...
If you think of it as...
3 2 1 P
Where P is the Peach, then I was like, always at 3 or 1, where I should've been a 2, pressuring her. This is a lot of matchups, but it was especially clear from that video. If I did that I could've punished her turnips more. And I jumped virtually INTO the peach when she was in the air, also very dumb.
And one last point: I got very little from f/d/bthrows
Max?
Smash Champion
Hmmm, who do I trust? The best marth in one of the strongest regions in the world who has experience vs. the 2nd best Peach in the world? Or some random from MD/VA?
Hmmm
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMmmm
Hmmm
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMmmm
JediSange
Smash Apprentice
I mean, which Marth are you referring to? lol. TAI said it himself that he thinks he should uthrow Peach more. M2K views that matchup the same way. Most Peach mains agree her main options are turnips, dash attack, get marth above her, or dsmashes. Any logical person agrees these are eliminated -- completely -- when she's in the air.
I'm not trying to be an ***, and I do agree that the f/d/bthrows are great mixups... but to dismiss the idea that Peach is in a bad position herself when she's above you seems a little derpy to me :X
Fortress | Sveet
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Way to bring on even more ad hominems to an already dead personal preference debate. If you are going to insult someone on the boards, realize that it makes you look stupider than the person you are trying to discredit.
Tee ay eye
Smash Hero
so like
if u-throw is so bad
what are we supposed to do?
f-throw and d-throw are almost definitely better than u-throw when they work, imo. except...
proper DI seems to be able to make f-throw and d-throw nearly obsolete, and it sorta seems like peach is obese enough to be able to react and DI properly to f-throw and d-throw. i've never gotten down into nitty-gritty testing, but i almost NEVER hit axe's peach off horizontal throws cuz he DIs down and away (i think).
if u-throw is so bad
what are we supposed to do?
f-throw and d-throw are almost definitely better than u-throw when they work, imo. except...
proper DI seems to be able to make f-throw and d-throw nearly obsolete, and it sorta seems like peach is obese enough to be able to react and DI properly to f-throw and d-throw. i've never gotten down into nitty-gritty testing, but i almost NEVER hit axe's peach off horizontal throws cuz he DIs down and away (i think).
Archangel
Smash Hero
lol well...i notice in your response to Niko and myself a page or so back idk...you seemed to be talking down in a "smarty pants" kinda way...so I figured I'd bring this out...I got info on pretty much every Marth that posts on the boards....it's my job
don't take it to heart.what? Just wondering why offer so much advice if your not even gonna follow your own guide...although he's explained that he's got alot better in a month or so's time. Which I understand I've done it myself. It's really nothing to get all dramatic about....**** move Spam.
*ban wagon passes* please jump on it...
your a 3rd mover...**** move indeed.
That was my MAJOR reason for posting the video. but I guess he learned from experience.... It makes sense to me. I pretty much don't lose to Samus anymore with Marth but thats because I've played vs Samus for about 1/3 of my life now...sometimes you gotta learn the hard way.
Fthrow-**** is good if u know or react to how they DI properly but once Peach gets past the **** % she's a ***** to deal with. The worst part for me is when She gets to the % when only a Fsmash or Utilt tipper will kill her. I've actually found Bthrow to be effective in a few scenarios.
Fortress | Sveet
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why do you think our opinions are band wagon? You clearly took the argument out of words and turned it into "you are bad at the game so stfu". You should go take down all ur matches from when you were a noob before someone goes and shows the boards how bad of a player you are and to ignore everything you are saying.
If you want to "argue" like that, go to a christian convention or something.
edit- on topic, by uthrowing occasionally you force the peach player to consider that option. You need to stop thinking of the match-up as "optimal punishes" and instead think in terms of mixups and unpredictability and using those advantages to help you zone and pseudo-combo her. You might find that the particular peach player you are going against is really bad at coming down or will always do _____. Uthrow also shows how the player was DIing if they were expecting dthrow/fthrow.
If you want to "argue" like that, go to a christian convention or something.
edit- on topic, by uthrowing occasionally you force the peach player to consider that option. You need to stop thinking of the match-up as "optimal punishes" and instead think in terms of mixups and unpredictability and using those advantages to help you zone and pseudo-combo her. You might find that the particular peach player you are going against is really bad at coming down or will always do _____. Uthrow also shows how the player was DIing if they were expecting dthrow/fthrow.
Archangel
Smash Hero
What does that have to do with anything? BTW You probably insulted some people who were agreed with you by bringing up something like that. Also that wasn't my point. The Match was only a month or 2 ago anyway and It is a Peach vs Marth match. Also at what point did I say "your bad at the game so stfu"? YOU just said that not me. I stated before my reason was simply based on how I interpreted a response involving something I posted. I have no problem with someone offering advice on Match-ups, Arguing points...etc. However If I feel like someone is talking down to me or someone else when I don't perceive them as being above us then...yea I don't take kindly to it....but thats over now.
Niko45
Smash Master
Ya, that's fine. But Sange is saying that up throw = staple and fthrow = occasional mixup.
And if someone wants to say things like "any competent marth can not get hit by peach in the air" you probably shouldn't have 2 month old vids of peach hitting you out of the air over and over again. Does that not seem fair?
Fortress | Sveet
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Again, this is a friendly debate. No need to take it from words to embarrassing people.
Archangel
Smash Hero
*Standing ovation*
I get your point. However some of the last few posts just didn't seem very friendly to me. Seemed like some disrespect and/or **** talk....but thats just me though. Why are you so mad? It doesn't involve you anyway.
Dart!
Smash Master
Can you stop eating niko's balls please?
Archangel
Smash Hero
I heard Niko's balls taste like Mozzarella sticks.
Niko45
Smash Master
JediSange
Smash Apprentice
Wow, I definitely didn't mean to start something this big, lol. I said any competent Marth, and I mean that. No where on this board have you ever found me calling myself good or talking down to people. I just tell it how it is, and if you have a problem with that... well... you can. I don't really care, lol.
The point is that it is NOT an argument. Peaches can get out of f/d/bthrows reliably. When she is in the air all of her viable options are eliminated. Yes, she can come down with bairs, but like I said a good Marth will play to the matchup.
If you have an issue with a bad Marth telling you optimal things, then just elevate yourselves and stop being defensive, lol. If you don't agree with uthrow/aerial peach game then that's fine. You're entitled to disagree, but not to be *******s about it. Just keep that in mind and keep it pimpin', pimpin'. =D
The point is that it is NOT an argument. Peaches can get out of f/d/bthrows reliably. When she is in the air all of her viable options are eliminated. Yes, she can come down with bairs, but like I said a good Marth will play to the matchup.
If you have an issue with a bad Marth telling you optimal things, then just elevate yourselves and stop being defensive, lol. If you don't agree with uthrow/aerial peach game then that's fine. You're entitled to disagree, but not to be *******s about it. Just keep that in mind and keep it pimpin', pimpin'. =D
Archangel
Smash Hero
how can you say it is not an arguement...and then argue your opinion on a debatable matter as if it's the law. I don't have a problem with you though and again for the record I have yet to call you bad. I don't think anyone thinks uthrow/aerials vs peach is a bad option. The point was it's not always the best option. I believe we can all agree that overall mixing up your throw game is the best approach vs a good peach player and just move on from there.
If you don't want people to be *******s to you then you should be more relaxed. When you aggressively debate and swat at point of views that differ from yours then you should be prepared for some heat to come your way. Thats just...human nature I suppose. It's all good though. Maybe if I get some free time I'll meet up with some of you locals. Then I can show you all how good I've gotten.
OverLord
Smash Ace
I prefer Peach on the ground 'cause she feels comfortable, then you can outspace her and stop turnips with fairs/grab 'em.
If you can deal with a Peach on the ground, then you win, whatever she does.
If you can deal with a Peach on the ground, then you win, whatever she does.
TheCrimsonBlur
Smash Master
lol you guys are silly. In the end everyone agrees fthrow and uthrow are both good in those matchups, proving there was no significant disagreement at all.
All that came out of that discussion was hurt feelings. smh
Imma listen to some Wu. Thanks Niko lolz
All that came out of that discussion was hurt feelings. smh
Imma listen to some Wu. Thanks Niko lolz
.Chipmunk.
Smash Ace
Clearly the best option to slap her for not being in the kitchen until she wiggles out of the grab.
Niko45
Smash Master
Anyway to get back on topic I thought Tai got a lot out of fthrow in the Xelic sets. If I were to make a suggestion it would be to stop pummeling her when you grab her. I think this is kind of a bad habit I notice myself doing too. When you're looking for a character to miss DI on a throw like jiggs or peach or marth you want to throw them asap. Not all the time, but sometimes you would pummel her and then try to fthrow dash attack her or something. If you pummel her, be prepared to tech chase instead of go for an immediate follow up cause if you give people time anybody can DI correctly.
If I were to make a general critique of your Marth Tai, I think you should focus on simply playing faster. When you get in a rhythm you look smooth as **** but I think noticeably if you whiff or get hit you kind of freeze up a bit and don't transition into something else as fast as you could. Xelic looks like he makes a fair share of mistakes but honestly just plays really fast so when he makes a mistake, if you're a little slow to punish or take advantage he's already moved on and is counter punishing your late punish or just doing something smart after messing up like rolling away quickly or whatever. Honestly I can see you elevating the speed of your play as the second set progressed I think because Xelic was pushing you and you were trying to step it up. More of that. Sometimes I think you play a little too calculated and get caught off guard by aggressive play. I could just be imagining this, but I watch you a lot so let me know if you think this is off base.
Basically if you spaced and punished as well as you do now, while playing as fast as, say, Axe, you'd be a monster.
If I were to make a general critique of your Marth Tai, I think you should focus on simply playing faster. When you get in a rhythm you look smooth as **** but I think noticeably if you whiff or get hit you kind of freeze up a bit and don't transition into something else as fast as you could. Xelic looks like he makes a fair share of mistakes but honestly just plays really fast so when he makes a mistake, if you're a little slow to punish or take advantage he's already moved on and is counter punishing your late punish or just doing something smart after messing up like rolling away quickly or whatever. Honestly I can see you elevating the speed of your play as the second set progressed I think because Xelic was pushing you and you were trying to step it up. More of that. Sometimes I think you play a little too calculated and get caught off guard by aggressive play. I could just be imagining this, but I watch you a lot so let me know if you think this is off base.
Basically if you spaced and punished as well as you do now, while playing as fast as, say, Axe, you'd be a monster.
TheCrimsonBlur
Smash Master
Eh, reading over this post, I think I really flubbed this point. Basically all I was trying to say was "airdodges suck in Melee compared to Brawl, and you shouldn't be scared to hit them because of that option" not "Peaches shouldn't airdodge and its a rare and bad escape option. lol airdodges suck what a scrub tactic"
Cause thats just wrong. I don't know what made me write something close to that effect, but I don't actually believe it lol.
Mahie
Smash Lord
-Ice-
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2010
- Messages
- 83
in that mu it realy comes down how good you patince and fair spacing is
if you space right she wont get you with her cc d tilt d smash etc. at high % dont rely too much on side b to up tilt it not so good because its logical that she is going to sheild much more at percent where side b up tilt kills her instead of that just u throw her and from there air chase to up air or bair
up air is prefered but there will be times where you need to bair
one more tip even if you hit the floati openent with a side b and he is flying in to the air the up tilt is not safe charas like peach can combi break it with nair watch some armada vids and you get what i mean
whene she is in sheild and you decide not to grab her . because you want to throw your sword on her
than dont go for fair to f tilt instead go for repeat sh fair pressure or fair to tap a . if she is angeling her sheild up so your fair hits earlier go for instant down tilt (high sheild stab chance)on platform stages if she does that stupid rocket tricks camp a platform and destroy theme with your fair but keep in mind you should be in lead if you do that against a smart samus
Tee ay eye
Smash Hero
that was a pretty informative post
then again, im awful against samus
<3 ice, anyway
then again, im awful against samus
<3 ice, anyway
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Sange, why don't you attend the big MD/VA tournies?
Archangel
Smash Hero
lol I hate samus...but my brother has been a Samus player for like...10 years now lol.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DEYVCjka74
last match I use Marf.
JediSange
Smash Apprentice
I normally live in Richmond during the summer, so I try to make it to some. However, at school I'm down in Radford, kind of away from everything. I made it down to some bigger NC tournaments, went to Pound 5, and 2UP most recently. All things considered, I just don't have a lot of time to be super competitive with melee atm since I play a few games on a competitive level and such (not really by choice, I've just run a gaming guild/community/nerd**** for awhile lol).Sange, why don't you attend the big MD/VA tournies?
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
I see. Well, next time we're both at the same tournament, we must play a bunch.
Niko45
Smash Master
Against Falco when you get him below stage with no jump you should instantly go off stage and side B him to death. Taking the ledge there makes things tricky and he's teching that fair etc. Side B just kills them flat out.
Against Samus you need to stop full hop fairing. I kinda notice myself doing this as a bad habit against some characters, I think it just results from anxiety/discomfort, trying to guess when they will go in the air without knowing for sure. He just shielded it most of the time and you were way out of position thereafter.
Powershielding is really not that rewarding against Samus. Jab or Ftilt missiles.
More dtilt and grab. Samus has to shield a lot to protect herself against Marth's range. Anticipate shielding and look for grabbing. Pressuring shields with like fair dtilt really isn't as good as, say, hitting a shield once and then waiting for a roll or some type of response to punish. When you do grab, don't fthrow fsmash cause that really doesn't work well on Samus. Fthrow into fairs is amazing tho. You'll often steal her jump and push her off stage into instant (albeit long and drawn out) edgeguarding.
JediSange
Smash Apprentice
Yeah man, for real =D
Also, just to defend myself:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12645385&postcount=357
Archangel
Smash Hero
Dude.....we'd moved past that.Yeah man, for real =D
Also, just to defend myself:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12645385&postcount=357
JediSange
Smash Apprentice
I will end you >: O =D =DDude.....we'd moved past that.
Archangel
Smash Hero
What's this....I sense a new rivalry developing. $1,000 MM?
TheCrimsonBlur
Smash Master
Spam, how is it that I have never met you though you are in Delaware? Do you ever travel to tournaments man?
Dart!
Smash Master
that guy plays brawl.Yeah man, for real =D
Also, just to defend myself:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12645385&postcount=357
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2008
- Messages
- 7,187
It improves your reading and spacing game so well. Melee players don't even know. Especially wi-fi
Fortress | Sveet
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You know what really improves your spacing and reading in melee? playing melee.