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Doubles Zelda >>> Singles Zelda.

KayLo!

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Sooo, Zelda's officially my doubles main, guys. And I'm using her for Pound 4, so I need ideas for Zelda + DDD/Snake. Gimpy, hilarious suggestions are very much encouraged.

Also, general doubles discussion. There's no forced topic or anything.

Personally, campy Zelda is my favorite in doubles. It works especially well when you have a heavy, bulky, wall-type character to hide behind (<3 DDD and Snake for this), because while they keep both people to one side, you can shoot Din's behind the opponents and essentially box them in. If you hit your partner, it can put them in a bad position, but heavy characters generally can eat a few fireballs without too much trouble.

This also allows Zelda to stock tank very well, because between your partner being a barrier and Zelda's defensive skills/strong knockback, attempts to approach you and stop your camping usually fail or don't result in a lot of damage.

Zelda provides KO power as well. A lot of moves set up into usmash/utilt/uair/dtilt locks very nicely. LKs too, I imagine, but I haven't tried those as much. Your kill moves will likely be fresh since you've been doing nothing but shooting Din's Fire all day.

The drawbacks of this strategy tend to be the following:
- Some characters will still be tough to handle. G&W is a ***** (and common in the doubles scene), MK can still gimp, and characters with annoying projectiles (ROB, TL, Pit) can mess up your Din's control.

- Your partner has to have a character or playstyle that works fairly well 1v2, because most of the time, Zelda will be across the stage. And she's slow, so she can't exactly run to the rescue, especially if your teammate is getting gimped. Vice versa also applies simply because of the distance your partner will have to cross to save you.

- If your partner dies (in my experience, they usually die before me since they're doing most of the hands-on fighting), Zelda is ill equipped for 1v2. This is why holding stocks is very important -- if necessary, you get 2, and your teammate gets 4.

- Other campy characters like ROB and Pit make bad teammates. You'll both be trying to occupy the same ledge space to camp, getting in each other's way..... or you'll try to camp from opposite ledges, which is horrible positioning.


Ideas? Alternate doubles strategies? Let's discuss!
 

mountain_tiger

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Here's something you can do with any character, but it's easier with characters that have really good grabs like DDD.

Knock one opponent away from you e.g. with DSmash. While they're recovering, get your partner to grab the other opponent who you didn't knock away. Pummel as necessary. When the opponent is ground released, that gives you 30 frames to lightning kick them into oblivion.

If you're playing as two Zeldas, theoretically the next could lightning kick while the hitlag took place, and this could loop forever.
 

Half-Split Soul

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From my experiences, the best partners for Zelda are either heavy and strong or light and fast. The teams with middleground characters don't usually work out nearly as well.

Also, what my User CP says about this thread:

Replies: 2
Views: 0

It's a paradox!!!
 

zeldspazz

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I love doubles so much. If/when I get into the tourney scene Im gonna find a partner and own doubles.
 

Bandit

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So, you wanna play?
I'll talk more about this later, but Snake is an extremely great compliment. Snake is able to handle G&W (G&W's 2nd worst matchup) and Marth (close but favors Snake). Both Zelda and Snake vertical KO very well, and his ground game can create a wall for Zelda to stand behind.

The only downside is hitting your teammate with Usmash or him hitting you with Utilt. Practice fixes this, of course.
 

GreyFox86

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Hmm...well what we had about 6 months ago was something like this. I wanted to find it again but I can't find it anywhere. :(

Anyways, in the old one apparently the best teammate for Zelda was herself but there is a serious flaw in that plan. Both have the same weakness and both lack speed to compete against anyone, that goes for LT Teams as well.

Here are my top 5 characters suited for Zelda as a Teammate.

1. MK:metaknight: - He himself is THE single best character to have as a teammate.

Pros: The only thing you have to worry about is your ability to hold your own. MK will most likely be off gimping some poor fool. On top of all that, most of his stuff can kill at early percentage like Zelda but has the speed to back it up.

Cons: The only drawback I see in this is that you can't get saved by him cause he has nothing that can save you if you need to get back. SDI is a must to have this one as a teammate cause you are a light weight and anything he does will most likely kill you.

2. Gay Men Watch (G&W):gw: - I think he is a close second next to Marth.

Pros: Din's is your life long friend with him. 3 Din's in his bucket and its nothing more than a Horn Drill waiting to happen. With his ability to survive, having two stock tanks isn't bad. He has the ability to save you with either Uair, which is preferred, or the bacon toss. Not to mention a quick kill if a 9 is involved.

Cons: Both you and Gdubs are Light as hell so any place with a short ceiling/walls will do you no justice. His speed isn't all that great so to go from ledge to ledge to save you is quite the risk. Some team work experience is needed here.

3. Marth:marth: - The Prince will show why he is #3 on my list.

Pros: He has the speed to go ledge to ledge which is what your looking for. With him having good advantages all around he is capable of going out there and doing his civic duty and build up damage. Not to mention alot of your setups that are tipped in your favor will be tipped in his favor as well. Any excuse to get in a good tipper from his opponents. Also if you happen to throw a smash his way, Marth is capable of SDI out of your Fsmash and Usmash so no real harm comes his way

Cons: Be careful when around him. With your light weight, any tipper at 75% and above will kill you without proper DI. He has no real way to save you from getting back to the stage if you happen to fall off the stage.

4. Sheik:shiek: - I believe this is actually one of the reasons to go Double Zelda.

Pros: What to look for in yourself. Speed, ability to save in a pinch, someone to build damage. I think she covers all of this really fine. With the quickness she has building damage will be no problem for her. Plus alot of her Bair send the opponent behind Sheik and into you, giving you a perfect chance to kill if you haven't exhausted your smash or LK yet. Her needles don't do damage but dog gone it they save your life, but they also help rack up damage as well.

Cons: Both are light in weight so anything that comes, Ike's Fsmash, will kill them both. Both recoveries are not as impressive as others are, so staying on the stage for Zelda is a must.

5. Sonic:sonic: - This is my personal pick cause I have teamed up with Espy so here is what I think of him.

Pros: Very fast in just about everything he does. Can and most likely will rack up damage very fast. Can go from ledge to ledge in less than 3 seconds so he able to help you out if you are having trouble. Can save himself so him going out to get a kill and coming back won't be a problem.

Cons: Watch him and what you're doing in terms of attacking. With his speed, you very well maybe hurting the team more than helping if you randomly throw smash's and Din's. No real way to save you if you fall to your doom so watch how you try to gimp. Light weight just like you so don't get caught in a powerful attack.


Those are my top 5 characters for my ideal teammates. You can criticize this if you want if it doesn't fit what you think. :)
 

KayLo!

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Woah, woah, where is Snake on this list?!?! Snake is hands down one of the all-time best teammates for Zelda. (Disclaimer: imo.)

But I'm getting ready to head out for the night, so I'll post why later.
 

GreyFox86

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Woah, woah, where is Snake on this list?!?! Snake is hands down one of the all-time best teammates for Zelda. (Disclaimer: imo.)

But I'm getting ready to head out for the night, so I'll post why later.
Oh wow, I missed snake....

Looks like I'll add him as my #3 and have Marth and G&W as #2

In all honesty I looking at can they go from ledge to ledge fast, can they give out damage for you to kill, and can they help you if you need it.
 

GodAtHand

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I actually have some vids on youtube somewhere of me and Fatal (Snake) teaming at a tournament, we took 2nd. Want me to get them for you? They are rather old but you could certainly see some do's and don'ts of teaming with Snake. Or just get some ideas.

I LOVE DOUBLES!!!!! I hope you guys **** so hard...

Tips off the top of my head:
- If it comes to 1vs2 and your partner can't take your last stock from you...from personally experience it is best to go straight for the kill. Find the one closest to death and lightning kick him ASAP.
- If you do find yourself in 1vs2 it is a tough situation, but Nayru's can actually be good here, as it pushes both enemies to the same side which allows you to be defensive again.
- Come up with super secret codes for Dtilt locks... or just yell "LOCK!" so Snake can turn around and fsmash as fast as possible.
- If you are going to ledgewarp try to tell your partner which way you are going so they don't get hit.
- Fatal and myself had a default strategy of grenades and Din's that worked very well. Go to the ledge and stand behind snake and the both of you just camp like hell. (Be prepared for the other team to completely bypass Snake and go straight for you, that caught me by surprise a few times)
- When Snake is off the stage and in a crap position it might be better for you to hit him with Din's rather than let him try to recover low, because that is where snake is most vulnerable. Maybe talk to your partner beforehand and decide what situations you should hit him in. If he is at a very high percent there is a lesser chance of Din's killing him than his DownB.
- Train you partner in Din's before the tournament. Teach him what moves will cancel it out in the air and on the ground so he can always have the advantage.
- Plan out strategies. One for example is when Snake is using his Upsmash on someone who is trying to recover you can time your Din's so that they either A) Get hit with it. B) air dodge and get hit with the Upsmash, or C) airdodge moving away from the stage and into a worse position.

Thats all I got for now... just tell me if you want those vids.
 

GreyFox86

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I would actually like to see some of those vids Riot.

Anyways, lets see if I can find some use to Snake in my thoughts and you guys tell me if its on the mark or not.

Snake:snake: - He is the next big help to Zelda next to MK.

Pros: HUGE POWER...That's all there is to him. More tricks than a **** Magician and can get from ledge to ledge with the help of him Mortar Slide. Capable of taking hits like a man and holding stock. Vertical/Horizontal kill power that kills early when fresh. This man is a one man army and that's exactly what Zelda is looking for. You can also reflect his Mortar and 'Nades so they don't hurt you

Cons: Watch for his explosives. You don't want to trip into one of them if your sitting at high damage. The single fact that he carries too much power and priority is a double edge sword. Watch for his HitBox's if you plan on coming in to help. Last thing you want is to be a victim of his Utilt or the end of his Ftilt. No help in the saving category unless you want to lose stock to one of his 'Nades.

I should have more from others soon.
 

Meru.

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Wow. A whole page and no Peach is mentioned. I'm disappointed. I've heard that Peach + Zelda is a very good team. I still have to find a Zelda player myself.

:053:
 

KayLo!

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Zelda + Peach is good, but it's not in the same league as having a character like Snake by your side. It also requires a much different strategy (you actually have to do **** :urg), but you're right, it can be very effective.

I frequently team with a Peach in friendlies, and we definitely do better when I use Zelda vs. using Pikachu..... however, you have to really know the Peach's playstyle, because you're both extremely light and can't afford to get into each other's way (more so Peach).

Din's > Toad combos are hilarious.


I actually have some vids on youtube somewhere of me and Fatal (Snake) teaming at a tournament, we took 2nd. Want me to get them for you? They are rather old but you could certainly see some do's and don'ts of teaming with Snake. Or just get some ideas.
Yes, please! Riot to the rescue. <3

- Fatal and myself had a default strategy of grenades and Din's that worked very well. Go to the ledge and stand behind snake and the both of you just camp like hell. (Be prepared for the other team to completely bypass Snake and go straight for you, that caught me by surprise a few times)
How far do you stand behind Snake? It sounds like the same sort of strategy the Snakes in my crew and I use, but I'm usually quite a distance behind Snake.

My reasoning:

I find that if I'm too close (near the ledge with Snake just slightly ahead of me), I'm the one who ends up getting boxed in and forced off-stage. x.x Snake's hitboxes are huge and strong and not nice to get caught in, so if one or both opponents get through, there's not much I can do offensively without hitting Snake or getting hit by his retardedly disjointed moves.

In the method I mentioned before, with Snake being some distance ahead of me, it's sort of like a double barrier: there's Snake (wall of nades and tilts) and Din's constantly exploding behind them (which they have to either get hit by or get busy avoiding), but at the same time, I have space to smash and stuff if they get through. And Snake can easily turn around and help if he can.

We could be talking about the exact same thing, but the way you wrote it implied that Snake would be near the ledge with you. Just trying to understand!

Also: I need strategies for resetting our positioning if it gets ****ed. Sometimes when I get rushed down by both people, it's hard to get my ideal camping spot back, especially vs. faster characters who can stay on my ***. Usually I just try to throw/fsmash/nair/Naryu's them back into Snake and hope he can deal with them. =X
 

MdrnDayMercutio

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Peach/Zelda is where Riot finds most of his good fortune. Teaming with Peachkid.

I've also found Diddy/Zelda is a good team. Assuming the Zelda can deal with bananas well. Zelda's glidetoss, when done correctly(something I can't do) is huge. Sliding that far makes USmash amazing.

Also, while 2v1 strats aren't super important. Banana's + Dtilt = infinite. It's awesome. And the nature of Dtilt means it sets up perfectly for a DSmash(which'll be fresh) to kill. Banana's(and Banana Locks) set up Zelda's kills amazingly well. And a good Diddy will be racking damage like crazy and Zelda can kill with a sneeze. Just food for thought.

There are definate negatives to that team though. Extremely light weights for both characters. MK gimps can be a problem. As can Falco in general. And while Diddy is great 1v2 he doesn't have the kill power that is always needed. ::shrug::

Just throwing that pairing out there. The one thing that kept me and Riot from doing better was my inconsistency as a partner at times. I'd do some of the dumbest stuff imaginable.
 

MdrnDayMercutio

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Here are Riot Double's Vids. Why, because I just woke up without a hang over and wanna be helpful. Plus New England doesn't record crap so this is actually EVERYTHING. Note most of it is old and stuff. None of it is more recent than early Summer 09.

Riot and Fatal

Winner's Finals vs Dazwa/OBM
Round 1 - Not Recorded(Riot/Fatal won)
Round 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jd4z6Du_pnM
Round 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rdNn__yWD0
Round 4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irzMw7nOVeM
Round 5 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqmMjW-sM0E

Loser's Finals vs Bizkit/JoeBot
Round 1 - Not Recorded Again(Riot/Fatal Win)
Round 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWm3f-9-6ww
Round 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrKYsUZwv4k

Grand Finals vs OBM/Dazwa
Round 1 - Not Recorde- Naw I'm messing with you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20WGpyUepdA
Round 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGoo2fCP8Lk
Round 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlzfqyltZZc
Round 4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cG1Cd2CA0u4

Riot/Peachkid

vs Icylight/Green Ace
Round 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EQEFcgA0RY
Round 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCf814btRjQ
( I have no idea what happened the rest of this set and stuffs)

vs Blackanese/Basic Sausage
Round 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79TZXYEJJjs
Round 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-cQrytF_qw

Riot/Ace
This is a random friendly at his house from when I was trying to pick up Zero Suit Samus. I'm just throwing it in so you'll all notice me. :(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jU_jt998r8

EDIT: Sorry about the double post. At least they're both meaningful legit posts right?

EDIT 2: Fixed GF3. Thank's Riot.
 

KayLo!

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Oooo~ videos! Thanks, guys.

Riot, respond to my last post. :mad: Don't be lazy, I need help if you want me and TUSM to ****. :embarrass

Although he'll probably go a lot more DDD than Snake.
 

GodAtHand

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What post? About the standing behind snake?

We do that once or twice in the vids, but you should be far enough not to get clustered. Or at least far enough away where if someone gets by Snake you still have enough options to feel comfortable dealing with it. Sometimes clustered isn't bad if you know that someone on your team is going to hit all 3 players left, more damage on the other team lol.
 

KayLo!

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Also: I need strategies for resetting our positioning if it gets ****ed. Sometimes when I get rushed down by both people, it's hard to get my ideal camping spot back, especially vs. faster characters who can stay on my ***. Usually I just try to throw/fsmash/nair/Naryu's them back into Snake and hope he can deal with them. =X
>=(

I know I'm being demanding, but I wanna do really well at Pound.

Since SOMEBODY (*cough*) isn't going, I gotta rep Zelda even harder.
 

The Phazon Assassin

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Riot, respond to my last post. :mad: Don't be lazy, I need help if you want me and TUSM to ****. :embarrass

Although he'll probably go a lot more DDD than Snake.
I dunno, after reading this, I may do a bit more Snake. I'll probably switch between the two depending on matchups. Now, I have to learn to play a camp heavy Snake, though, as opposed to my Ftilt heavy Snake. More C4 and Claymores to stop initial tent penetration, more nades and Nikitas for long range spam. Only problem is I feel much more confident with Dedede.

I'll watch those vids later.
 

GodAtHand

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I tend to Farore's when that happens. With another character to contend with most players won't wait for you to reappear and will go after your teammate. Just make sure your partner knows that the majority of the time you will be trying to put yourself in a better position... hopefully you won't hit them.

Although super camping is a great strategy it isn't the end-all. A lot of the time you may find yourself being the only one who camps. Which is fine, just make sure your partner knows this and uses those key moves that stop him from taking Din's damage. That way there is a good chance one of the two enemies will take damage and if they dodge instead Snake usually has an advantage because his move will end before their dodge.

Sometimes I literally just put myself where I think I have the best positioning to get a surprise kill. And remember that if you are hit to the side of the screen with an enemy, no matter what percentage, you should probably try to LK them. It kills so early when you are at the side the of screen and they usually don't expect it.

If you really want to reset positioning: If they are both on you Farore's toward him. If they are both on him, throw out a Din's and have him mortar slide toward you and explode it once he is past the blast area., and you should be in ideal position again.
 

KayLo!

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@TUSM: As long as you can handle G&W, I'm good. G&W destroys Zelda and completely nullifies the usual strategy. x.x Although if there's a G&W, I'll probably just go Pika anyway.

Ninja'd by Riot! Lemme reaaaad~

EDIT:


A lot of the time you may find yourself being the only one who camps. Which is fine, just make sure your partner knows this and uses those key moves that stop him from taking Din's damage.
Haha, that's usually what we do anyway. 90% of the time, I'm the only one camping.... hitting my teammate usually isn't a problem unless they decide to go off-stage or I get hit with a projectile/flying body and lose control of Din's.

Or sometimes Din's just has hax range that I wasn't expecting. X.X

TUSM, we should try double camping next time and see how it works. Practice your explosives!
 

GodAtHand

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I have teamed with a DDD in friendlies... so I might have a few tidbits if you want them.

DDD downthrow to Zelda dtilt lock to DDD Fsmash is very possible if you have hit the other teammate away.

A big problem will the DDD getting in the way of all of your moves. He is such a big target that if he is anywhere near you he will probably get hit.

Another problem is that if one of you is in trouble the chances of the other one making it to you in time is slim. Especially if DDD is trying to save Zelda off stage because of his slow air speed.
 

KayLo!

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Another problem is that if one of you is in trouble the chances of the other one making it to you in time is slim. Especially if DDD is trying to save Zelda off stage because of his slow air speed.
Yeah, I learned that the hard way....... x.x

"TUSM, save m -- oh" when I saw he was halfway across the stage, lol.

DDD dthrow > anything is pretty amazing, especially for kills. So far I've only tried usmash consistently, but I'm gonna test utilt/dtilt/LKs next time.

Ahhh~ so much new stuff to try. I can do stuff other than Din's, it's blowing my mind.

Oh yeah, and thanks @FW tip. Completely forgot that I can cross the stage that way, durrdurr.
 

The Phazon Assassin

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If I'm Dedede and you need help, Up-B straight up. This gives me more time to get to you, and our opponents will think all they have to do is edgehog you for the kill. I'll try and pay attention to you, especially if you're offstage, but I can't guarantee 100% survival.

I need to play with AC more. Me and him were all about saving people, and this was in free-for-alls. That, and epic ledge battles.
 

KayLo!

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If I'm Dedede and you need help, Up-B straight up. This gives me more time to get to you, and our opponents will think all they have to do is edgehog you for the kill.
What're you gonna save me with, tho? x.o Besides Waddles, you'll probably kill or gimp me with everything else, lol. And maybe put yourself in a worse position in the process.

I guess we'll see today. =D Maybe we should get replays.....
 

KayLo!

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Nair says hi.
Lolol. Only if you promise to yell out that husky-*** NAIR while you do it.

Or he could eat you and spit you at your enemies lol.
Wouldn't he have to be on the other side of me? o.o

I dunno how Inhale works.... I thought he can't jump (and therefore can't turnaround in the air) while he has me in his mouth.
 

AzNfinesse

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I dunno how Inhale works.... I thought he can't jump (and therefore can't turnaround in the air) while he has me in his mouth.
you actually can turn and jump with DDD while u have someone inhaled. it's just not worth it because unless they're above 150% they'll probably get out. you'd have to be pretty fast and have the combo in muscle memory.
 

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Zelda is the best teammate for Zelda.
Double Din's fire is hella cool, but can be rarely pulled off lol.
 

KayLo!

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TUSM and I have some replays. I'll maaaaybe post them sometime soon if I can get them recorded. A.k.a. if I can remember to get them recorded, lol, because I forget easily.

EDIT: Oh wait, I'll just send them to people instead. Would be dumb to post them right before the tourney. @.@

HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH G&W?!?!?!

I might just go Pika if somebody picks him, but I really wanna go all Zelda. And I'm not nearly as confident with Pika in doubles as I am with Zelda. ;-;
 

GreyFox86

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Even though I hate to admit it, trying to take on a G&W in doubles as Zelda is not good.

AzN strat is funny but effective, but eventually you have to attack back. :p
 

GodAtHand

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How Riot deals with G&W in doubles:

- When he turtles you I am not sure exactly when but between certain hits you can actually Dsmash him and trade hits. Working better for you in the end.
- If he is turtling your partner you can space a Din's to hit the backside of him so he doesn't cancel it.
- Oftentimes Upsmash can beat his dair.
- Spacing Upair also beats his dair.
- Tech his downthrow and he can't follow up.
- Try stutter stepping Fmsashes against an aggressive G&W. The little bit of extra space you get can sometimes be enough.
- Yell for your partner if things are getting bad.
- Try to stay grounded unless you are trying something super duper sneaky.
-Dsmash clashes with a lot of his ground moves. He it clashes keep doing it until you are farther away and he will outrange you then roll away to reset the spacing.
- Dtilt works really well if you can hit it.
- If they ever screw up a shorthop turtle Dash Attack can usually punish them.
 
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