Doubles Zelda >>> Singles Zelda.

[GodAtHand]

Not big enough.... I try that against Eric sometimes, and it only works like.... 1/3 of the time. And thats against Eric so........... its gotta be a lot worse IRL.

 

[zeldspazz]

Its cus its so **** slow ;_;

 

[MdrnDayMercutio]

****. I knew it was huge, I thought maybe you could trade ONE Hit for the grab which would definately be worth it, specially in doubles.

 

[KayLo!]

Just HOW big is Zelda's Pivot Grab?

Hitbubble data (linking to mine since BtC's was incomplete): http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8904458&postcount=61

 

[MdrnDayMercutio]

Hmm... yeah. It doesn't look big enough to work. Since I know her hands extend pretty far into that bubble. ****

 

[GodAtHand]

It would awesome if she grabbed with her eyes!... Maybe next game along with those possession powers from the new Zelda game.

 

[KayLo!]

@Mercutio: Yeah, that's how all her grabs are. They have a lot of reach, but only because she leans her body and extends her arms so far. Similar to ftilt but not as extreme. =X

 

[Bandit]

Bandit has some things too (if not for doubles, I wouldn't play this game):

- Camping behind Snake is the best formula, but it's not a sustainable plan. You must be comfortable playing 1v1 vs characters because the good teams will split you up.

- Camping with Snake Ftilt & Utilt is probably just as effective as camping with nades, honestly. Zelda should be maintaining a constant stream of dins to further inflict damage and to protect Snake from 2v1.

- When your partner is on the other side, do not rush in to help him. Simply use dins as your friend. This allows you to tank stock longer by not being subjected to damage.

- Isolation is my favorite team strategy. If we get back to back, I can usually keep one opponent on one side of the stage while my partner feasts on the isolated opponent on the other side of the stage. You can assist him in doing 2v1 damage when you knock away the opponent's teammate.

- Get a feel for when Snake will Utilt. Utilt is a free Uair for Zelda depending on the knock back.

- Contain the urge to Usmash everything. Snake is huge and gets caught up in it.

- Dins him if he's off the stage. You stand a better shot at recovering alone than he does (if you get knocked off while saving him).

- In 1v2, keep the opponents on one side of you with a ledge to your back. Fsmash is great while Usmash leaves you vulnerable (unless you get both of them).

- In 1v2 I had this happen:

1) Zelda & Luigi (my team) vs Snake & Captain Falcon (yes... seriously) on Brinstar (our CP)
2) Everyone is on last stock when Luigi dies
3) I keep avoiding Snake while building damage on Falcon
4) I land LK on Snake for the kill
5) While frozen from LK, I get knee'd for the kill.
6) Game.

Greatest finish ever. Even I, the victim, was like holy **** that was awesome!!

- If it is ever 2v1 in your favor, do not approach, ever. Go into Camp & Spam Mode and let it rain fire. Your partner will reap the endless benefits.

-----

As for characters, I have found these work well (in no order):

A) Metaknight - Snakeee discovered you can hit the opponent with a dins while he is inside Meta's tornado. Can you say broken?

B) Snake - Vertical kill power, great camper, very few bad match-ups with Zelda covering the DDD, Snake covers most of Zelda's bad match-ups

C) Falco - Team Spam (my current teammate for the past 3 months)

D) ROB & ROB Light (aka Peach) - ROB does better than Peach but they are both hard to get kills on, both camp well, both can cover Zelda, but both have problems killing.

E) Sheik - Transform time is instant to Zelda

F) Zelda - Umm... double dins... is amazing.

-----

As for the G&W problem, stay away from him and let Snake handle it. (G&W such a ***** to deal with...)

-----

That's all for now. I'll keep popping in with more stuff as it comes along. I only wish Thunderhorse (my falco teammate) was going to be in for Pound because you could really see how Team Spam is stupid ridiculous on people.

:bandit:

 

[The Phazon Assassin]

That's all for now. I'll keep popping in with more stuff as it comes along. I only wish Thunderhorse (my falco teammate) was going to be in for Pound because you could really see how Team Spam is stupid ridiculous on people.

:bandit:

I played against that team in Brawl+. Wasn't fun at all especially in that 2v1...

 

[KayLo!]

A) Metaknight - Snakeee discovered you can hit the opponent with a dins while he is inside Meta's tornado. Can you say broken?

I realized that recently when I tried to Din's MK out of tornado but ended up hitting only TUSM (who was in the nado) instead.

-_-

Also, tornado spamming MK is REALLY ****ing annoying when you're trying to camp.

 

[GodAtHand]

Quick Zelda tip from personal experience: Roughly 60% of the time I get caught in an air tornado if I don't do anything Zelda will just pop out so be prepared to air dodge and punish him.

 

[GreyFox86]

Quick Zelda tip from personal experience: Roughly 60% of the time I get caught in an air tornado if I don't do anything Zelda will just pop out so be prepared to air dodge and punish him.

Umm...No

You don't AD cause that will only lead you back into the Tornado. You have a better chance Dair'in the Tornado then that. =/

 

[KayLo!]

You can airdodge through tornado sometimes. Depends how high you were popped up and which way the MK player is moving. But it's definitely possible and a better alternative than jumping if you know you can make it through.

Usually I jump by force of habit, although that has the unfortunate side effect of being a footstool off the tornado a lot of the time.

I just count my blessings that Zelda doesn't have to worry about tornado too much. It's infinitely more irritating when you're a character who can't easily get out.

 

[GodAtHand]

I usually just air dodge through the tornado. If there is still a long time left for tornado to be active you should probably jump. I don't usually pop out that early though. Besides once you airdodge past the tornado you are going to be in a much better position.

 

[KayLo!]

Who would you guys say are Zelda's biggest threats in doubles?

So far, the only characters who've given me a ton of trouble are G&W and, of all characters, TL. Snake can be annoying to get by if he boxes you in away from your partner, and MK's nado spamming is a nuisance, but neither seems to be a real issue.

Lucas is also really aggravating..... Ness? Meh, not so much, but they both nullify Din's camping to some degree, which is a large part of Zelda's usefulness in teams.

Just trying to get an idea of who I should watch out for (a.k.a. CP with Pika), because my crew can cover only so many characters in practice.

 

[Bandit]

Marth.

All the characters you mentioned (outside of TL... that's probably a personal thing since he's just annoying anyway unless it is Lobos) and Marth.

Marth owns Zelda so hard that your partner needs to keep him as far away from you as possible.

I was in a teams match with a Luigi and was 2v1 against Neo. He had 3 stocks to our 6. We lost. I couldn't go near him, and my partner couldn't handle him either. (Surprisingly this was my last regular Brawl tournament).

I'm positive with a different teammate that it would've gone better with that kind of advantage, but his aerials continually cancelled dins and my partner was getting wrecked.

 

[KayLo!]

I'll keep Marth in mind, although I haven't had a ton of trouble with him so far in doubles. Then again, you were playing vs. Neo, which probably had a lot to do with it.

 

[Bandit]

It's come up a few times facing a good Marth (Neo obviously being a challenge) where he can pretty much dictate how the match will unfold. My partners were playing (from what I remember) Luigi, ZSS, and Lucario. I'm not sure on their matchups with Marth and it might have been a player skill difference as well, but it was difficult for anyone to deal with him.

Snake does well enough though that it should be okay.

 

[GodAtHand]

If your partner can handle the Marth you can probably just sit there and block his attacks and play the avoid game until your partner comes and helps.

Falco can be a real jerk in teams. He can reflect Din's if he wants and he can usually get close to you real quick because of his side b.

 

[KayLo!]

Good to know about Falco.

I'm upset. All but a few of my replays are desynced for some reason........ But they were all saved within the same practice session, so I have no idea why some are messed up and others aren't.

Only one of the non-desynced ones has my Zelda in it....... the rest are Pikachu....... ;-;

 

[GodAtHand]

That's awful news.

 

[KayLo!]

Yeah (if you weren't being sarcastic ), I'm gonna try again if we play doubles tonight. And try to get this one recorded in the meantime.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

I'm upset. All but a few of my replays are desynced for some reason........ But they were all saved within the same practice session, so I have no idea why some are messed up and others aren't.

Were there any codes involved?

 

[KayLo!]

Just the usual texture/music codes, but I'm resetting them just in case.

My friend messed around with my card one day and added some codes (he was using a new Wii, so some characters weren't unlocked), but they shouldn't've affected gameplay at all. And it still doesn't make sense that some of them are desynced but others aren't. And he removed them, iirc. @.@

Oh well.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Did you have infinite replay code on? It can cause desync, especially if the replay is later played when the code is not on.

 

[KayLo!]

Yeah, and I played them with the codes on. I don't get iiiiit~

Oh well. Most of them were wins anyway, which is useless if I'm trying to get critiqued.

 

[GodAtHand]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_s3Inb6rP8k

Fairly Recent match of me and Peachkid. We didn't really use our super camp strat because well... it wasn't really necessary. But it was a good match anyways to watch.

 

[KayLo!]

OH MY GOD KH MUSIC!

Sorry, that's the first thing I noticed, lol. I'll edit in a bit with more comments probably. =X

EDIT: Rofl @ending. Man, this really makes me want to upload my one lonely match that's not desynced so you can give me some feedback.

I feel like the strategies we use are totally different, though..... it was cool to get a different perspective and actually see it in a vid (rather than just talking about it).

 

[GodAtHand]

The Peach Zelda strat is more about using peach's swiftness to: 1)Keep the other characters occupied while I camp. 2) Attack them so that I can hit them with Din's. 3) Combo off of the Din's I used into more dins....

With Snake it was mostly just extreme camping until they separated us, then trying to find the opportunity to to get into a similar position again. Although both strats work with these characters. Snake is better at camping than Peach but Peach is better at comboing off of the Din's because of her range and air mobility. And turnip/Din's camping isn't as good on larger stages, thats why we love BF its the perfect size!

 

[KayLo!]

Oh, I team with a Peach in friendlies a lot, so I'm familiar with the Peach + Zelda team. I used to hate it before I discovered the wonder of Din's in teams, but now I love it.

Hopefully I can get some non-desynced replays this time. I would've saved some of our doubles from the other night, but we were drunk most of the time, soooooo. =X

I think I have a replay where I spiked an MK out of his up b for the comeback, though. Loves iiiiit.

 

[Bandit]

I think in most cases, Zelda's job is to sit back and camp with dins. It's why she teams really well with defensive wall characters. Generally, characters with a good bit of killing power work well, too.

In the case of Snake, you have both.

-----

Check the social thread for some teams matches I did in Brawl+ this weekend. There will be more.

There was not too much traditional camping in the matches, but it worked out well enough. I was teaming with a G&W who didn't bucket any of my dins.

 

[GreyFox86]

I think in most cases, Zelda's job is to sit back and camp with dins. It's why she teams really well with defensive wall characters. Generally, characters with a good bit of killing power work well, too.

In the case of Snake, you have both.

-----

Check the social thread for some teams matches I did in Brawl+ this weekend. There will be more.

There was not too much traditional camping in the matches, but it worked out well enough. I was teaming with a G&W who didn't bucket any of my dins.

Your assuming Snake or your partner is going to be on a 2v1 against the other team.

Zelda has to see some fight for 40% of the match. =/

Say your up against Falco/Gdubs, Some one is going to come after you. >_>

 

[AzNfinesse]

Your assuming Snake or your partner is going to be on a 2v1 against the other team.

Zelda has to see some fight for 40% of the match. =/

Say your up against Falco/Gdubs, Some one is going to come after you. >_>

what you are forgetting is doubles is not the same game as singles. you are not alone for 80% of the fight.

i'll take that example that you gave (falco/gdubs). let's say my partner is snake (since it is the most typical partner for a zelda).

when a gdubs chases zelda all you have to do is run away to snake and have him protect you. once you get behind snake he will perform his stage control as you rack up damage via din's. most gdubs don't bucket anyway unless you are clearly spamming dins and he'll read every single one of it.

let's say falco chases zelda. we can all at least agree that the only reason that MU is bad for zelda is because falco can camp zelda. but in the case of doubles, falco won't be doing nearly as much camping as usual, and zelda's chances of success against falco increase. basically, all you have to do is utilize zelda's defensive and anti-aerial attacks to their fullest against falco and wait for snake to pull him away, so you can resume the typical snake/zelda camp maneuvers.

and on top of that, falco/gdubs is a fairly light team, making it easy for both zelda and snake to get off a kill, not to mention that zelda and snake have excellent set-ups on both of these characters.

true, the basis of her doubles playstyle is defense and din's, but that's why zelda is a much more viable character in doubles than singles. her playstyle flows perfectly if matched with the right character.

 

[GreyFox86]

what you are forgetting is doubles is not the same game as singles. you are not alone for 80% of the fight.

i'll take that example that you gave (falco/gdubs). let's say my partner is snake (since it is the most typical partner for a zelda).

when a gdubs chases zelda all you have to do is run away to snake and have him protect you. once you get behind snake he will perform his stage control as you rack up damage via din's. most gdubs don't bucket anyway unless you are clearly spamming dins and he'll read every single one of it.

let's say falco chases zelda. we can all at least agree that the only reason that MU is bad for zelda is because falco can camp zelda. but in the case of doubles, falco won't be doing nearly as much camping as usual, and zelda's chances of success against falco increase. basically, all you have to do is utilize zelda's defensive and anti-aerial attacks to their fullest against falco and wait for snake to pull him away, so you can resume the typical snake/zelda camp maneuvers.

and on top of that, falco/gdubs is a fairly light team, making it easy for both zelda and snake to get off a kill, not to mention that zelda and snake have excellent set-ups on both of these characters.

true, the basis of her doubles playstyle is defense and din's, but that's why zelda is a much more viable character in doubles than singles. her playstyle flows perfectly if matched with the right character.

Missing the point here. My point was that Bandit made it sound like Zelda is going to sit back all day long and watch her partner do all the work.

IIRC, I did mention that Zelda is going to see a fight at least 40% of the match. I'm not saying that your wrong cause your not, but my point was not of that nature.

 

[Bandit]

Zelda doesn't sit back. All doubles matches get broken down into 1v1 matches going on simultaneously. She is very good at keeping both opponents in front of her allowing her to camp dins. She still does her fair share.

I personally like this formation:

Enemy . . . . . . . . . Zelda . . Enemy . . Teammate
------------------------------------------------(stage)

Zelda keeps the enemy on the left away while smashing, kicking and poking the enemy who is very focused on her teammate. You trap the enemy and do brutal amounts of damage.

 

[GreyFox86]

Zelda doesn't sit back. All doubles matches get broken down into 1v1 matches going on simultaneously. She is very good at keeping both opponents in front of her allowing her to camp dins. She still does her fair share.

I personally like this formation:

Enemy . . . . . . . . . Zelda . . Enemy . . Teammate
------------------------------------------------(stage)

Zelda keeps the enemy on the left away while smashing, kicking and poking the enemy who is very focused on her teammate. You trap the enemy and do brutal amounts of damage.

She can't keep that up if shes up against Gdubs or someone who has a better MU against her. MK, Snake, D3, Falco. Seeing how you have to do some 1v1. Plus there also the chance that there are bad MU all along the board. Double MK, Snake/MK, or others. =/

 

[Bandit]

D3 is not bad for Zelda. A nuisance, but he's not bad (I still have not lost to one in singles play though I did not get a chance to face Vex like I wanted to today).

Falco is annoying in teams, agree there, but he's lacking kill moves. Plus she runs pretty even with him 1v1.

Snake is a beast. MK is a beast. Put them together in any combo and it's hell (against anyone)

G&W is another problem but it is because of his bucket more than anything. He doesn't have the space to Bair camp and he dies early.

The best way to beat any of that is to team with someone who plays any of the previously mentioned characters except D3 because he is not going to cover Zelda well.

Falco, Snake, MK, and G&W are good teammates for Zelda.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Falco sucks in teams. Your best beat is to team with a Wario or MK.

 

[Bandit]

Falco sucks in teams. Your best beat is to team with a Wario or MK.

I team with a falco at every tournament (except the last 2 because he was out of the country).

Trust me when I say he is good in teams. He's a match-up problem for a lot of people and he covers Zelda a fair amount.

I can't see Wario being a good teammate. His whole game is peck and run, peck and run...

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I team with a falco at every tournament (except the last 2 because he was out of the country).

Trust me when I say he is good in teams. He's a match-up problem for a lot of people and he covers Zelda a fair amount.

I can't see Wario being a good teammate. His whole game is peck and run, peck and run...

Wario can be played a lot of ways he can rack damage or he can stock tank or he can get the kills. He can play off of Zelda's move very well. Wario is one of the better characters in dubz falco not so much.