Doctor Mario Info Archive and Discussion. - Miniscule update 8D

[Desh]

The Doctor Mario Information Archive.

Ok time to clean this up a bit and set a few things straight.
This thread (is in my opinion) very much needed in the doc forums, theres loads of useful info scattered around, but not one place to keep it organized.

So i'm hoping that this works out for keeping things organized, and possibly give place for discussions and questions regarding new and old info for the doc boards.

This is what I'M willing to do to make this thread full of win.
-Look around the doc boards every so often to find something useful to archive for future reference
-Keep this thread as up to date as possible
-Make it look pretty
-Try to keep it on topic, that means for the love of god, when you post here try not to make it a waste of a post.
(im probably more guilty of stupid posts than anyone else on the doc boards LOL, but yeah, I'm tryna cut down on it, and i think if anywhere this would be a place not to spam and discuss peach statistics LOL.)

What YOU could do.
-HELP find info. That means if you maybe remember talking about something in a thread that you found particularly helpful, post a link or tell me where to find it! I'm going to look for stuff too, but i have a life and im only human XD.
-Not spam XD
-Thats really it. lol.

I've gotten up to page 50 in the Doc Q&A thread, and this is what I've found to be informative. If you know of something I've missed, or something you think should be included, let me know, I'll add it.

Hope this turns out well >_>

____________________

Miscellaneous Info

Frame Data + Hitboxes
Part 1 [01-07-2009]
Part 2 [01-07-2009]
Part 3 [01-07-2009]
Part 4 [01-28-2009]

Chain Grab Info[Magus Files]
Here [01-28-2009]

Doc in Teams
$mac's Outlook [05-27-2008]
DogySamich's Outlook [05-28-2008]
Dogy Cont'd [01-20-2009]
Elven's Outlook [05-28-2008]
OTG's Outlook [05-28-2008]
SpruceTengu's Outlook [01-18-2009]


Move Discussion
Short discussion on pills vs other projectiles [10-11-2008]
Dthrow vs G&W [11-13-2008]
The Cape [10-22-2008]
The Cape Cont'd (HITBOX GIF) [ 04-13-2009]
Short Discussion on Docs UAIR [01-03-2008]
Info on UAIR Juggles [ 03-31-2009]
Wavedashing vs other methods of movement [02-13-2009]


____________________

Match Up Info

Doc vs " "
Sheik [10-29-2008]
Fox [01-29-09]
Fox 2[02-18-2009]
Marth [10-30-2008]
Marth 2[11-29-2008]
Falco [02-13-2009]
Jiggs [10-29-2008]
Jiggs 2 [10-29-2008]
Samus [11-19-2008]
Luigi [01-29-09]
Link [01-30-09]


Why Captain Falcon is hard for doc. [07-23-2008]
Why Captain Falcon is hard for doc. Cont'd. [07-23-2008]


Edge Gaurding
Sheik [06-01-2008]
Link [01-13-2009]


____________________

Stage Discussion
J. Japes [11-23-2008]

 

[Stos]

LOOOOL KK
i got something on how to edge guard link.

 

[Dogysamich]

I still like this idea. Nice.

I will say with 100% certainty that Magus's chaingrab %s are dead wrong.

 

[Desh]

I guess we'll have to work with what we have until we have something more accurate to replace it with.
ATM im just skimming through the Q&A thread =/

 

[SpruceTengu]

Oh, take a look at my textwall about doc in teams. >.> I dunno if it's of any use, but if you like it.. =D

 

[Desh]

if i missed it sorry lol, i'll have to go over the thread again once im done the first run through

 

[otg]

Most of the info on teams is all Dogy's posts. You click on my link and it goes right to Dogy's.

 

[Desh]

fixed
idk why it didnt work lol, the link i replaced it with was the exact same @_@

 

[Dogysamich]

apparently all you need to know is that i say doc is ok but go play fox or puff? XD

 

[Stos]

Desh, get Ryan Ford to post here.
seriously hes like a Doc God.

 

[Dogysamich]

i dunno, when I think more about that cape thing, I start to get the idea it has something to do with priority post we talked about?

It would kinda make sense, I think.

Maybe?

 

[Desh]

idk, u talking about the port priority? or what kinda priority,
kinda vague XD

 

[DRD]

Nice job, I second the motion to slap spruce's text wall in there

it was very informative

THANKS SPRUCE

 

[Dogysamich]

idk, u talking about the port priority? or what kinda priority,
kinda vague XD

Attack priority.

The clashing thing.

 

[Desh]

oh lol,
i wasnt aware it really had a set priority, i thought it was more of a "it send things back at u"
i mean, it can deflect a needle wich im pretty sure can stop pretty much anything >_>
****ing charge beam even gets ***** by a needle

-addings spruce's post- ^_^

 

[SpruceTengu]

Nice job, I second the motion to slap spruce's text wall in there

it was very informative

THANKS SPRUCE

No problem! To be honest I've been dying to spit out some of the lesson's i've learned in my rather extensive teams obsession. More to come, no doubt.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

You messed up some of the tags =P

Here's some other stuff.

Frame data!

Doctor Mario
D-Throw: YES
18, 40 [22]

U-Throw: YES
18, 40 [22]

F-Throw: YES
12, 28 [16]

B-Throw: YES
44, 67 [23] (Hitbox on Opponent 1-43)

From here.

Also...

Doctor Mario

Tech-Roll Forward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 9
Distance: 14.6 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Tech-Roll Backward
Total: 40
Horizontal Movement At: 10
Distance: 14.6 ft
Invincible: 1-20

Getup-Attack (Back)
Total: 49
Hit: 20-21 (Behind), 24-25 (Front)
Invincible: 1-25

Getup-Attack (Stomach)
Total: 49
Hit: 19-20 (Behind), 25-26 (Front)
Invincible: 1-26

Getup-Roll Forward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 6
Distance: 12.6 ft
Invincible: 1-21

Getup-Roll Forward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 6
Distance: 12.4 ft
Invincible: 1-19

Getup-Roll Backward (Back)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 12
Distance: 12.4 ft
Invincible: 1-22

Getup-Roll Backward (Stomach)
Total: 35
Horizontal Movement At: 11
Distance: 12.4 ft
Invincible: 1-24

From here.

EDIT: And...

DR. MARIO

• Jabs
  • 04 07 Jab 1
  • 04 07 Jab 2
  • 05 09 Jab 3
  
  
• Tilts
  • 06 12 Down Tilt
  • 06 12 Forward Tilt (high)
  • 05 10 Forward Tilt (low)
  • 05 10 Forward Tilt (middle)
  • 06 12 Up Tilt
  
  
• Dash Attack
  • 06 12 Dash Attack
  
  
• Smashes
  • 11 23 Down Smash (charged)
  • 09 19 Down Smash (uncharged)
  • 12 26 Forward Smash (charged, high)
  • 11 23 Forward Smash (charged, low)
  • 11 24 Forward Smash (charged, middle)
  • 09 19 Forward Smash (uncharged, high)
  • 08 18 Forward Smash (uncharged, low)
  • 09 19 Forward Smash (uncharged, middle)
  • 10 21 Up Smash (charged)
  • 08 17 Up Smash (uncharged)
  
  
• Aerials
  • 05 10 Back Air
  • 04 07 Down Air (each hit)
  • 08 17 Forward Air
  • 06 12 Neutral Air
  • 07 15 Neutral Air (stale)
  • 06 12 Up Air
  
  
• Specials
  • 03 05 Down-B (other hits)
  • 04 07 Down-B (first and last 2 hits)
  • 05 10 Neutral-B
  • 6* na Side-B (not shielded) *cannot be smash-DI'd
  • 08 15 Side-B (shielded)
  • 04 08 Up-B (first hit)
  • 04 07 Up-B (last hit)
  • 03 05 Up-B (other hits)
  
  
• Getups
  • 05 10 Edge Attack-up (fast)
  • 06 12 Edge Attack-up (slow)
  • 05 09 Faceplant Attack-up (1st hit)
  • 05 09 Faceplant Attack-up (2nd hit)
  • 05 09 Pratfall Attack-up (1st hit)
  • 05 09 Pratfall Attack-up (2nd hit)
  
  
• Grabs
  • 04 07 Attack (while holding)
  • 00 na Back Throw
  • 00 na Down Throw
  • 00 na Forward Throw
  • 00 na Up Throw

From here.

And...

The edgegrab box.

 

[Falcinho]

good shit =D

 

[elvenarrow3000]

I wonder if this can get me past the fucking censor.

EDIT: Sah-weet.

 

[Magus420]

I still like this idea. Nice.

I will say with 100% certainty that Magus's chaingrab %s are dead wrong.

They're really not. For estimates they are pretty close, though since I didn't look too much into them there's some stuff like the heaviest characters having a small opening to jump if they DI to the side at very low damage and can only be caught with a JC grab (usually behind since it adds a turning frame to your grab). It pokes some holes in the ranges of Bowser and DK in particular, and to a lesser extent Ganon and requires Link/Yoshi to have a small amount of damage to start if they DI a certain way on the 1st throw. It also didn't mention some important things like if you need to grab backwards and such.

Anyway, that list is old.


NOTE: All of the percents listed here are the damage AFTER the throw. Since knockback is calculated by the damage after the hit it's more exact this way. To see the percents BEFORE the throw, subtract however much the throw will be doing (generally 4-6 for D-Throw and 6-8 for U-Throw).

'Overall Range' is the range(s) that you are able to regrab them regardless of DI so long as you time the grab correctly vertically, and position it correctly horizontally. The jump out damage used is when you can regrab as long as you are in the general area of horizontal positioning, and may be lower than the 'Best' jump out % which is when the very top of the circular grab boxes are what connects and can reach slightly higher.

'Stand-Grab' and 'JC-Grab' are the ranges you can regrab them off full away and full behind DI while standing still and ranges you can JC regrab them, respectively.

'Jump-Out % Best' is the highest possible damage you can get a regrab off no DI that is impossible to jump out of. Some of the ones with very small hurtboxes you're grabbing such as their leg requires very specific positioning for it to connect at this percent, so it's not always something that'd be possible to do reliably.

'Jump-Out % Wrong' is around the percent you'll be able to get a regrab off of no DI/near no DI that can't be jumped out of if you try to grab in the wrong direction and they come down slightly behind you. Its difference is more apparent when trying to grab small hurtboxes. For example if you normally grab them fine off no DI by grabbing while facing forward and they DI slightly behind you and you don't notice it a grab while facing forward might not be able to catch them until they fall a bit further down and may give them the time to jump out. Walking forwards slightly then turning and grabbing or dash pivot grabbing will help cover the weaker area of coverage in the middle shared by the 2 directions.

'Lag' is how many frames of lag you have after they're released. It's greater for the heavier characters because both the D/U-Throws are affected by their weight and increased weight slows down the throw animation.



D-Throw (6 Damage included)

Stun .Damage
------------
31 ... 0-1 (you can't have 0-1% after the throw but that's what it would be)
32 ... 2-12
33 .. 13-23
34 .. 24-34
35 .. 35-45
36 .. 46-57
37 .. 58-68
38 .. 69-79
39 .. 80-90
40 .. 91-101
41 . 102-112
42 . 113-123
43 . 125-135
etc...

|---------|--------|-------------|----------------|-----------|----|
|Character| Overall| .Stand-Grab | ... JC-Grab ...| Jump-Out %| Lag|
| ........| Ranges.| Front Behind| Front . Behind | Best Wrong| ...|
|---------|--------|-------------|----------------|-----------|----|
|Bowser ..| 13-21 .| .2-21 13-21 | 24-64 . 35-60 .| .42 . 36 .| 25 |
|.........| 35-42 .| ............| ...............| ..........| ...|
|CF ......| 53-153 | .N/A . N/A .| 46-196 .53-196 | 154 .145 .| 23 |
|DK ......| 13-15 .| .N/A .13-15 | 13-51 . 24-30 .| .18 . 13 .| 25 |
|.........| .......| ............| ....... 35-39 .| ..........| ...|
|.........| .......| ............| ....... 46-47..| ..........| ...|
|Falco ...| 33-200+| .6-33 .N/A .| 21-200+ 33-200+| 200+ 200+ | 17 |
|Fox .....| 55-200+| 26-39 .N/A .| 45-200+ 55-200+| 200+ 200+ | 17 |
|Ganon ...| 13-16 .| .N/A . N/A .| .6-53 . 13-16 .| .36 ...7 .| 24 |
|.........| 24-31 .| ............| ....... 24-31 .| ..........| ...|
|.........| 35-36 .| ............| ....... 35-38 .| ..........| ...|
|Link ....| 13-40 .| .N/A . N/A .| .6-64 . 13-63 .| .40 . 25 .| 23 |
|Pichu ...| .0-27 .| .0-41 .N/A .| .0-43 .. 0-43 .| .27 .. 3 .| 13 |
|Pikachu .| .0-27 .| .0-25 .N/A .| .0-42 .. 0-42 .| .27 . 17 .| 17 |
|Roy .....| .0-50 .| .N/A . N/A .| .0-76 .. 0-76 .| .52 . 38 .| 19 |
|Sheik ...| .0-65 .| .0-26 .N/A .| .0-83 .. 0-83 .| .67 . 50 .| 20 |
|Y Link ..| .0-39 .| .0-20 .N/A .| .0-60 .. 0-60 .| .39 . 33 .| 19 |
|Yoshi ...| 13-24 .| .N/A . 2-24 | 13-27 . 24-35 .| .24 . 24 .| 24 |
--------------------------------------------------------------------

U-Throw (8 Damage included)

|---------|--------|-------------|----------------|-----------|----|
|Character| Overall| .Stand-Grab | ... JC-Grab ...| Jump-Out %| Lag|
| ........| Ranges.| Front Behind| Front . Behind | Best Wrong| ...|
|---------|--------|-------------|----------------|-----------|----|
|CF ......| 13-51 .| .N/A . N/A .| 10-66 . 13-66 .| .51 . 49 .| 23 |
|Falco ...| .0-73 .| .0-8 . N/A .| .0-89 .. 0-89 .| .74 . 66 .| 17 |
|Fox .....| .0-65 .| .N/A . N/A .| .0-78 .. 0-79 .| .65 . 60 .| 17 |
--------------------------------------------------------------------



Important stuff about them:

Ganon: Grab BEHIND you for no DI or else they can start jumping out after 7. You grab his leg which is a small target so your horizontal aim with the grab is important. Very slight DI can mess it up if you grab in the wrong direction for it, so walk->turn or dash->pivot grab to be safe.
Link: Grab BEHIND you for no DI or else they can start jumping out after 25.
Pichu: Grab BEHIND you for no DI or else they can start jumping out after 3.
Pikachu: Grab BEHIND you for no DI or else they can start jumping out after 17.
Roy: Grab BEHIND you for no DI or else they can start jumping out after 38, and if you don't walk->turn or dash->pivot grab for no DI they can start jumping out after 46.
Sheik: You grab her leg which is a small target so your horizontal aim with the grab is important. Very slight DI can mess it up if you grab in the wrong direction for it, so walk->turn or dash->pivot grab to be safe.
Y Link: Though it looks like he's mostly behind you, grabbing behind for no DI will miss after 32 so either grab in front or walk->turn or dash->pivot grab to be safe which gets his head. Grab behind you, walk->turn or dash->pivot grab to grab his leg after 34.
Yoshi: Grab a bit early to get his head and not the body which doesn't dip down nearly as low during the tumble.

Falco (U-Throw): Walk->turn or dash->pivot grab for no DI after 60 or so.
Fox (U-Throw): Walk->turn or dash->pivot grab for no DI after 50 or so.

 

[Dogysamich]

Oh ****. My green wall is no match for the awesomeness of the purple wall of magus.

___

I'll have to mess around with these now that I have more of an explination to it.

I may have been lookin for the wrong thing. >.>

I really do appreciate you taking the time to come down here and throw down some knowledge.

**edit**

is that supposed to be a "Grab behind if you see no DI" on sheik?

 

[Roman.]

hmmm im gunna have to quit life now

 

[Magus420]

It's not needed, but it's probably safer since Sheik goes a little more towards the back then in front. It only becomes important near the end of the range when it'd be better to (and there's also time to) walk forward slightly and then turn around and grab backwards. Until then you only really need to grab behind you like that if they slight DI behind, but again you might as well grab behind anyway.

 

[DRD]

Wow I thought Dogy's green text walls were impressive

 

[Stos]

Wow I thought Dogy's green text walls were impressive

saaaame .

 

[Dogysamich]

*laughs*
What can I say? That man spits statistics like hot fire.

You cant beat facts.

 

[Desh]

holy magus's.
thanks so much for the contribution =D
we've been meaning to get around to finding the right info for a while now ^_^ .

-adds post-

 

[St. Viers]

<3 Magus, like always XD

this thread is quite useful >_>

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Whooo sticky!

Desh, you should find a good way to organize/display all of this info. Possibly make a new thread (or edit the existing one) with hyperlinks as a table of contents to posts in said topic that contain relevant information presented in a neat, tidy way.

 

[Desh]

huh, im not QUITE getting what you mean D:

you mean make a table of contents so the info i link to is easier to find?
and then just hyper link the table of contents?
why not just make a table of contents, label each of the parts,
and tell people to do the good'ole
ctrl+f
and just use the find function to find the stuff on the original post.
it might have been intelligent of me to steal the 2nd post in this thread for editing purposes.

add me on aim/msn
ac_milano101@hotmail.com
thats my msn address and aim thing.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Something like

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=111814

 

[Geist]

DESSHHHHH
So I randomly felt like playing doc against a friend, because Doc's so awesome, and I get a wicked uair combo on his Ganon and end it in an Fsmash.
He looks at me and he's all like "WTF you're Doc remember? You don't even play Doc properly. You're not Mario."
I just shrugged his johns off and told him no johns, your DI sucks, rofl.


But I was wondering, if I was playing a player with decent-good DI, would uair still be as relevant a combo for Doc as it is for Mario? and is it sexier/more practical to end with a buddha's palm or a fair?

 

[Dogysamich]

yes it is, depends on the weight/height you have them at.

u.air juggles are as viable for doc as they are for mario, meaning they're close to impossible to hit on people who know where to DI.

I still think there's a trick to it and am working on it. >.>

 

[Desh]

lol dont ask me, im aight, but if you wanna be asking anyone it would be ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
also tnx for the sig bren LOL =]

 

[Geist]

yes it is, depends on the weight/height you have them at.

u.air juggles are as viable for doc as they are for mario, meaning they're close to impossible to hit on people who know where to DI.

I still think there's a trick to it and am working on it. >.>

lol I didn't think uair combos are that useless.
Ask eggs or something he seems to do them well. That's why I assumed they were ****.

also tnx for the sig bren LOL =]

lol no problem.
melee ftw.

 

[Dogysamich]

lol I didn't think uair combos are that useless.
Ask eggs or something he seems to do them well. That's why I assumed they were ****.

i could ask eggz, seeing how he gave up on mario a long time ago.

I'd be better off asking greenmario, and he's more accessible to me.

I think I know how it works, though, but im gunna mess with it before I go running my mouth off and look ******** when Im wrong.

 

[Roman.]

i only find it useful if you steal/catch the other player without a jump

 

[Eggz]

Uair combos only work on people who don't know the mario matchup. Uair chains are really unlikely to get on high skill players that arent ganon or something. DI down and away and they are much harder if not impossible to land.

 

[missedwithtruestrike]

so uh, can someone please post a chain-grab video, the text block lost me.....if you do ill be your best friend :/
thats the best i can do.

 

[Desh]

What would you need the video for exactly?

You throw the character (up/down) and regrab them before they land.
it only works on the characters listed in magus' list.
fox/falco/falcon/link/bowser/ganon/ etc.

its only possible to regrab them at a certain % (mentioned in the text block) and at a certain % each individual character will be able to avoid the regrab, wether its by jumping or w.e .

if you didnt know HOW to cg, then thats how, if you just dont understand magus' table then i dont see how a video is going to help. If i have super spare time i might consider making one, but i dont see the use of it.