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Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!
- Thread starter otg
- Start date
i think that's sarcasm...
everyone knew about SH double aerials
everyone knew about SH double aerials
otg
Smash Master
Doc really doesn't have a legit sh aerial besides bair-> nair though..
Desh
Smash Ace
lol, i wanna try pillaring a sheild now, im not gonna lie >_>
XP
XP
I need to be a better judge of Fox's Side-B distance. I had him at 80%+, and he was using his side-B onto the stage, but too low to make it onto the platforms, so I started charging up an F-Smash, and he lands behind me.
FML.
FML.
Ya know, i think it's kinda hilarious how everybody is talking about knowing about sh b.air -> n.air, but never mentioned it/do it because "It's too hard."
Just proves my theory that nobody in smash really practices as much as they should. It's kinda odd.
__
So anyway, i went to gigabits in FL this weekend. I just wanted to get out of the house. Didnt plan on entering anything although I got pulled into teams. People were mad as **** that I didnt enter singles, lol.
Dun care, learned some good sh*t playin friendlies.
AND OUT OF NOWHERE, ****IN SMASHMAC WAS THERE. That was pretty epic. We played some games, we wrecked each other. **** was pretty comical.
__
Sh*t i did with fairs is golden as hell. Doc pillar? I mean it's not ground breaking, but **** it's good.
And then I got some more stuff to work into the mix. Loads of fun.
__
@18s. Ground pills vs luigi. Stops WD and tornado. It's pretty comical. Ground pill and then step into (or out of) his WD space so that he has to run to you if he wants to do anything.
__
And last but not least; my kirby goin on a rampage. LOL.
Just proves my theory that nobody in smash really practices as much as they should. It's kinda odd.
__
So anyway, i went to gigabits in FL this weekend. I just wanted to get out of the house. Didnt plan on entering anything although I got pulled into teams. People were mad as **** that I didnt enter singles, lol.
Dun care, learned some good sh*t playin friendlies.
AND OUT OF NOWHERE, ****IN SMASHMAC WAS THERE. That was pretty epic. We played some games, we wrecked each other. **** was pretty comical.
__
Sh*t i did with fairs is golden as hell. Doc pillar? I mean it's not ground breaking, but **** it's good.
And then I got some more stuff to work into the mix. Loads of fun.
__
@18s. Ground pills vs luigi. Stops WD and tornado. It's pretty comical. Ground pill and then step into (or out of) his WD space so that he has to run to you if he wants to do anything.
__
And last but not least; my kirby goin on a rampage. LOL.
The Alpha Gundam
Smash Champion
I knew about Bair 2 Nair this whole time
but it seems that dogy learn of my trick and is starting to use it
*shakes hand vigorously in anger*
I wonder how long i can act up before i catch a 6 hit ban combo >.>
I also hate chicken. Dogy should ban me for that too. :-D
but it seems that dogy learn of my trick and is starting to use it
*shakes hand vigorously in anger*
I wonder how long i can act up before i catch a 6 hit ban combo >.>
I also hate chicken. Dogy should ban me for that too. :-D
Shroomed
Smash Master
i got 3rd at a tourney yesterday, best i've done so far in singles
watch the vids, i want to know what you guys think i was doing wrong etc or wut i should work on
HMW should put them up in the next few days
watch the vids, i want to know what you guys think i was doing wrong etc or wut i should work on
HMW should put them up in the next few days
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
yay shroomed vids.
shroomed has the most suitable name for a doc imo.
shroomed has the most suitable name for a doc imo.
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
Reign in glory while you can, Dogy.
Also, Doc can pillar with f-air?! I wanna see some vids of this.
Smooth Criminal
B.air -> n.air. Dear god read. *slap*
___
And dude, my kirby? Oh man. That's the only thing I think i'll ever gloat about with any (read: absolutely no) seriousness. I cant lose with kirby. LETS SEE HOW MANLY MAN YOU ARE BRAGGIN ABOUT BEATIN A KIRBY.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I'd brag about beating a Kirby.
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
Oh. Right.
>___> It's been a while since I've been on Smashboards. Cut me a break.
Smooth Criminal
You gotta take what you can get up there in canada. You dont have alot to beat in the first place. 
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,550
darkrain kept comboing me yesterday and i was sad ):
otg
Smash Master
Welcome to the Doc v. Falcon matchup. Try DIing away and using Uair to stop his combos.
lets see. I could put the Satoko laugh in here again, but I dun feel like it. If i could find a clip of Tron Bonne's or Karin's taunt, I'd put that in here for the same effect.
But since I cant find them on youpoop.
-AAAAAAH HAHAHAHAHAHA!-
Yeah. You kinda cant get hit by falcon.
I still wanna play darkrain again now that I have a clue how to not get completely annhilated by falcon, and see if I can not look like "That guy" when I play him.
___
There is no "try" DIing away; you do it or you die. And for the love of god and everything holy, DONT LET HIM GET YOUR 2ND JUMP. XD
As soon as you 2nd jump and get hit, you might as well pick out the music for the combo video, cause it's coming.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,550
lol yeah it's murder... it's basically the same as dk vs. falcon except it's harder to combo falcon back...
it was more the skill difference as to why i was getting ***** so badly but i was like "):" the whole time cuz i kept getting comboed even when I DI'd lool.
it was more the skill difference as to why i was getting ***** so badly but i was like "):" the whole time cuz i kept getting comboed even when I DI'd lool.
SpruceTengu
Smash Journeyman
Well, ah mean.. fuggin' Darkrain. ;_; .
My only truly horrible falcon experiences are against Scar. These alone are bad enough. I got it worse than Mufasa.
As for the DI away and uair thing, I've got to give that a real shot sometime; i've never had a consistent anti-falcon strategy aside from being -insanely- careful with spacing. Thank you, OTG. =D
otg
Smash Master
Of course spruce anytime. Right now I'm trying to incorporate FJ Uair -> Fair in one jump. Seems like it would be a good finisher but I don't really ever do it.
So, a whole entire day without doc convo. Hmmm. I've been doing other stuff, like trying to figure out what all kirby can duck under.
After getting halfway through and figuring out kirby's dumb ducking mechanic, im going to have to go back and do it all again.
Turns out Kirby (and jiggs) have the same dumb mechanic the marios have with them looking when they duck.
Kinda makes me wonder, I know that Doc can, at specific ranges, duck under Ganon's grab. Makes me wonder if it's actually at specific times. That's be pretty hilarious.
___
As for current events. I'm watching some pretty good vids of HMW... not playing doc. XD
Yaaaaaaay
After getting halfway through and figuring out kirby's dumb ducking mechanic, im going to have to go back and do it all again.
Turns out Kirby (and jiggs) have the same dumb mechanic the marios have with them looking when they duck.
Kinda makes me wonder, I know that Doc can, at specific ranges, duck under Ganon's grab. Makes me wonder if it's actually at specific times. That's be pretty hilarious.
___
As for current events. I'm watching some pretty good vids of HMW... not playing doc. XD
Yaaaaaaay
It's honestly just timing, I don't see how a vid would help.
edit: I just practiced it and I find it really simple. get out the bair as soon as possible and learn the timing for when the bair ends.
edit2: I just comboed fox with it at low percent when he missed his tech.[cpu]
edit: I just practiced it and I find it really simple. get out the bair as soon as possible and learn the timing for when the bair ends.
edit2: I just comboed fox with it at low percent when he missed his tech.[cpu]
eighteenspikes
Smash Master
how is this better than shfflbair->dsmashing a missed tech?
I'm tryin to put a video up now, but yeah; it wont really help.vids would be cool on this bair nair thing...i can get the landing animation of the nair, but no hitbox comes out
It's timing, and like I said, you have a 1 frame window of error (maybe 2).
By the looks of how my capture card is being right now, this is going to take a while anyway.
Dont you mean decrease? >.>
It's... not. XD
D.smash **** like that.
___
On another note, while kinda just ****in around making this dumb video that will probably take 10 years to come out, I was just doing SH Cape -> n.air to **** around.
Come to find out that if you SH Cape -> n.air, your next cape wont stall. (That's known, or should be). I figured out to reset the cape you have to jump. Any kind of jump, meaning wavedash works too.
*shrug* just something dumb I noticed.
**random 5 second blurb turns into a greenwall of text**
lol. Every character in every game has some "technical" to them. Hell, even characters in brawl have their technical to them. Melee just has some weird misconception that pressing a ****ton of buttons in a short amount of time is the ONLY definition of technical.
Makes me wonder.
Being able to PKT2 and hit any spot with Ness is ridiculously technical, along with being able to slope PKT2 (dear god that **** is dumb. But it's going to be a long time before people realize something like that is technical. There's not a sh*tton of CLACKCLACKCLACKCLACKCLACKCLACKCLACKCLACK involved.
Heck, dunking with Doc is technical. Precision. Can you jump a.s.a.p. (which changes depending on the character you're throwing), jump to the right spot, and put the f.air out in a timely manner so they cant escape? It's not like EVERYBODY can do it; I laugh my *** off watching people miss ridiculously easy ****. (Pfft, I laugh at myself when I miss some of the characters I practice on all the time).
Pretty much every character in every fighting game has some "technical" to them (unless it's just a horrible game that has absolutely no business being played seriously anyway). The ones that dont have any tech to them would be like, Upper God Tier characters like Ivan Ooze.
___
There's a reason I point this out, because noting whether a person has THOSE kinds of techs is actually important.
It's easy to **** to tell what kinda stuff a Falco can and cant do, you see it all day long. The more they cant do, the more you can exploit on them.
Now think, why doesnt that apply to every other character? For that NOT to be the case, that would mean that character has absolutely NOTHING to be precise on (because really that's just the definition of "technical skill". Precision. The variable is the speed you have to be precise).
Imagine this. Imagine you're playing a typical Falco; SHL, SHFFL'ing, pillaring shields, spaces well, etc etc. All mental aside, that's hard to deal with. You dont really have alot to take advantage of. Now picture a falco who cant do any variation of SHL; can shffl but cant land into a shine, spaces absurdly bad, cant jump out their shine, constantly misses dashes after moves, etc. That's a hell of alot easier to deal with, right?
Now think of this. Have you ever played a Zelda who can lightshield b.air? How bout one who cant? It's a technical skill, but if you come across a Zelda who cant do this, makes it a whoooooooole lot easier to deal with. (Like, really. This kinda makes-or-breaks Zelda).
Whenever I play a Doc ditto with somebody, I get to that range and I start looking. "Well he can land the hits leading up to it, but can he ball??" And then they cant dunk. Well, that means they're not a viable threat from grab till im **** near 200%. That means I can afford to sit in shield more, cause they're not going to kill me from the grab. Cant hop out of shield properly after shieldstun? I can do stupid stuff like FH u.air right in your face and you wont respond. Etc. Etc.
My point in all this is dont cut the definition of technical off at speed. Really, it's just precision, and speed is a variable.
Wavedashing with Kirby vs wavedashing with Bowser. Same inputs, completely different speeds.
lol. Every character in every game has some "technical" to them. Hell, even characters in brawl have their technical to them. Melee just has some weird misconception that pressing a ****ton of buttons in a short amount of time is the ONLY definition of technical.
Makes me wonder.
Being able to PKT2 and hit any spot with Ness is ridiculously technical, along with being able to slope PKT2 (dear god that **** is dumb. But it's going to be a long time before people realize something like that is technical. There's not a sh*tton of CLACKCLACKCLACKCLACKCLACKCLACKCLACKCLACK involved.
Heck, dunking with Doc is technical. Precision. Can you jump a.s.a.p. (which changes depending on the character you're throwing), jump to the right spot, and put the f.air out in a timely manner so they cant escape? It's not like EVERYBODY can do it; I laugh my *** off watching people miss ridiculously easy ****. (Pfft, I laugh at myself when I miss some of the characters I practice on all the time).
Pretty much every character in every fighting game has some "technical" to them (unless it's just a horrible game that has absolutely no business being played seriously anyway). The ones that dont have any tech to them would be like, Upper God Tier characters like Ivan Ooze.
___
There's a reason I point this out, because noting whether a person has THOSE kinds of techs is actually important.
It's easy to **** to tell what kinda stuff a Falco can and cant do, you see it all day long. The more they cant do, the more you can exploit on them.
Now think, why doesnt that apply to every other character? For that NOT to be the case, that would mean that character has absolutely NOTHING to be precise on (because really that's just the definition of "technical skill". Precision. The variable is the speed you have to be precise).
Imagine this. Imagine you're playing a typical Falco; SHL, SHFFL'ing, pillaring shields, spaces well, etc etc. All mental aside, that's hard to deal with. You dont really have alot to take advantage of. Now picture a falco who cant do any variation of SHL; can shffl but cant land into a shine, spaces absurdly bad, cant jump out their shine, constantly misses dashes after moves, etc. That's a hell of alot easier to deal with, right?
Now think of this. Have you ever played a Zelda who can lightshield b.air? How bout one who cant? It's a technical skill, but if you come across a Zelda who cant do this, makes it a whoooooooole lot easier to deal with. (Like, really. This kinda makes-or-breaks Zelda).
Whenever I play a Doc ditto with somebody, I get to that range and I start looking. "Well he can land the hits leading up to it, but can he ball??" And then they cant dunk. Well, that means they're not a viable threat from grab till im **** near 200%. That means I can afford to sit in shield more, cause they're not going to kill me from the grab. Cant hop out of shield properly after shieldstun? I can do stupid stuff like FH u.air right in your face and you wont respond. Etc. Etc.
My point in all this is dont cut the definition of technical off at speed. Really, it's just precision, and speed is a variable.
Wavedashing with Kirby vs wavedashing with Bowser. Same inputs, completely different speeds.
as easy as it is to take potshots at brawl, even that game has some tech to it.
Boost grabbing, reverse boost grabbing, pivot grabbing pivot boost grabbing, reverse boost pivot grabbing, reverse boost double dutch porkchop grabbing, reverse boost double dutch porkchop hopscotch grabbing....
*continues making jokes to himself*
Play a snake that cant mortar slide in that game, hell of alot different than one who can. Play a falco that cant SHDL in that game, or just play one who cant even get the lasers in the right place. SOooooooooooooo much different than playing one that can.
Boost grabbing, reverse boost grabbing, pivot grabbing pivot boost grabbing, reverse boost pivot grabbing, reverse boost double dutch porkchop grabbing, reverse boost double dutch porkchop hopscotch grabbing....
*continues making jokes to himself*
Play a snake that cant mortar slide in that game, hell of alot different than one who can. Play a falco that cant SHDL in that game, or just play one who cant even get the lasers in the right place. SOooooooooooooo much different than playing one that can.
Christopher Rodriguez
The illest Project M Bowser
Brawl is okay
I wish I was still as good at the game as I used to be, but its troublesome to go between both the games. Brawl is kinda technical in the sense that very good players have perfect spacing, but it kinda gets ruined by camping.. Take character technicality into consideration too Dx But I mean, if it took no skill then tournament results would be alot more dynamic.
Truth
I only play for fun/to not entirely suck at it
Oh well, melee for life.
I wish I was still as good at the game as I used to be, but its troublesome to go between both the games. Brawl is kinda technical in the sense that very good players have perfect spacing, but it kinda gets ruined by camping.. Take character technicality into consideration too Dx But I mean, if it took no skill then tournament results would be alot more dynamic.
Truth
I only play for fun/to not entirely suck at it
Oh well, melee for life.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,550
if someone can't shdl in brawl (10 frame buffer? lollll) then they should quit life.
i know when I mess around with falco that 2nd laser isnt always as low as possible.
Time to go find the knife.
*edit*
Stares at avatar.
Anise is too **** good. Booooooooooooooooooooo.
Time to go find the knife.
*edit*
Stares at avatar.
Anise is too **** good. Booooooooooooooooooooo.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
Heres the thing tho. Who the **** cant mortor slide.
Brawl is just really easy. Every player possess the skill to do all the moves. just might not know how.
Melee is the opposite. I dont think I can dunk dog. but I can moonwalk with falcon.
Brawl is just easy and there are some techs in it but they are ****ing easy as **** lol. there are still ppl out there who cant waveshine across FD in practice mode. not that hard but hard enough.
BRawl?!?! where you at lol
My point exactly.
And lol that you cant.
--edit-- I was playing melty blood.
But yeah, that's my point. Dunking is technical; there just isnt a series of rapid inputs that go with it. Therefore, for melee's intent and purpose, it's not "technical". Makes absolutely no sense how that came to be, but that's how the community works.
There's all sorts of crazy things like that in this community. I'm still trippin over people trying to say this game has "the most freedom of movement of all fighters".
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
I think that players of above average smash knowledge understand the true meaning of technical.
What the general public thinks is technical is silent wolf and eggz[they are hella technical] but its not the inputs that ppl are looking at its the flash.
Alot of ppl think you gotta be flashy to be technical. Alot of ppl look at Isai's falcon and say that he wasnt technical but he had some good **** that required precision that everyone cant do.
And maybe on the dunking lol. Havent really tried but l def see ppl missing it lol. Its like missing a knee after a falcon stomp.[more technical IMO] I can probably do it cuz im black. or at least have added proficiency says the white man
I dont play hella fighters but, which one(s) would u say have more freedom of movement then smash?
Arguement I made about movement a month or so ago
For 2-d fighters, I could push an arguement for alot of games, but it's soooooooo easy with 3-d.
Melee has a variety of ways to move, but they're mostly commitments that limit you from doing SOMETHING. Wavedashing limits you from doing anything; dash dancing making standing moves a technical skill, has points where you cant jump, and (to my knowledge) removes neutral b as an option (i could be wrong about that, but try as i might, i've never been able to pivot pill); platform dashing is really just airdashing with set tracks; the list goes on and on.
I mean heck, even running limits your options. You have to either do some specific attack or go through atleast 2 animations to turn around, not to mention you have to do atleast 1 to do any ground moves. Because of how fast melee goes, having to do said 1 animation (crouch), but who's to say you dont get caught with some attack at that point? In some cases, holding down would be bad (like for people with sh*tty recoveries --rolls eyes--)
Its pretty easy to argue that being able to turn around is just a stance transition; gives you access to certain moves, limits various aspects (mobility, jump arc).
You can turn around in a lot of games.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
YEa but alot of games have things that you can only do during certain stances.
I Just think of melee as a game with alot of stances but every thing for the most part can be accomplished that can be in other games.
You can air dodge in directions and Waveland which is kinda like air dashing.
Im pretty sure u can pivot a neutral b but you must release your DI. ie if u were standing then you would still side be. Its not based on position but input.
I feel like the game being played in 2 directions adds merit to the claims of freedom because you can face your opponent like in any game but u can also turn around and fight backwards if u like.[at will not from a stance] Or if u look at it from the stance standpoint then everyone has alot of stances. Around the same number but a few characters have a couple more based on special moves or grapples or whatever.
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^^^random garble from my head lol^^^^
I guess it kinda depends on how you look at movement freedom. I like to be able to do what I wanna do. I feel like melee allows me to do everything from other fighting games but I might have to meet a requirement such as turn around or be in the air.
You can do everything but there are just certain stance requirements.
Its the combination of moves and stances that gives you freedom. Its just mechanics that you have to get around. There are all kinds of cancels and if u wanna do somethings else just switch to the appropriate stance.
Edit: if this makes any sense at all lol.
I Just think of melee as a game with alot of stances but every thing for the most part can be accomplished that can be in other games.
You can air dodge in directions and Waveland which is kinda like air dashing.
Im pretty sure u can pivot a neutral b but you must release your DI. ie if u were standing then you would still side be. Its not based on position but input.
I feel like the game being played in 2 directions adds merit to the claims of freedom because you can face your opponent like in any game but u can also turn around and fight backwards if u like.[at will not from a stance] Or if u look at it from the stance standpoint then everyone has alot of stances. Around the same number but a few characters have a couple more based on special moves or grapples or whatever.
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^^^random garble from my head lol^^^^
I guess it kinda depends on how you look at movement freedom. I like to be able to do what I wanna do. I feel like melee allows me to do everything from other fighting games but I might have to meet a requirement such as turn around or be in the air.
You can do everything but there are just certain stance requirements.
Its the combination of moves and stances that gives you freedom. Its just mechanics that you have to get around. There are all kinds of cancels and if u wanna do somethings else just switch to the appropriate stance.
Edit: if this makes any sense at all lol.
Ha ha, Dogy.
I'm going to spare you some trouble and just tell you up front.
I'm rarely ever serious over the internet, especially when it comes to the sharing of opinions (i.e.: Freedom of movement).
If there is advice I need, or I participate in a discussion, I can usually guarantee that I am being serious.
If I'm not doing either of those, you'll be able to tell when I am being serious because I usually write a whole lot more and scrutinize my own spelling and grammar excessively.
If I deem a non-serious comment too serious for the internet, I will almost always comically misspell a word on purpose, or add an emoticon of some sort. If I must misspell a word on purpose, or use a word that is not real, but for the purposes of a serious discussion, I will put it in quotation marks.
So, in the future, you can save yourself some finger-work and just reply with "lol" instead.
EDIT: On a (still) serious tangent, I was just thinking about how unoriginal all of the characters in Smash really are.
They all have the same moves, in the same amounts, using the same inputs.
There is little to no variation (With the exception of B moves) in the effect of each move. There is no "Grappler" character, there is no "Shoto"... Why doesn't anybody's forward tilt shoot laser beams? Unless you have a sword, it's probably a roundhouse kick, or something related.
What really sets the characters apart are their jumping ability and speed (Land and/or air). You could say edge guarding also, to an extent. The edge is one of Smash's most unique features, IMO, and the ability to control it well is a big part of the game.
I'm going to spare you some trouble and just tell you up front.
I'm rarely ever serious over the internet, especially when it comes to the sharing of opinions (i.e.: Freedom of movement).
If there is advice I need, or I participate in a discussion, I can usually guarantee that I am being serious.
If I'm not doing either of those, you'll be able to tell when I am being serious because I usually write a whole lot more and scrutinize my own spelling and grammar excessively.
If I deem a non-serious comment too serious for the internet, I will almost always comically misspell a word on purpose, or add an emoticon of some sort. If I must misspell a word on purpose, or use a word that is not real, but for the purposes of a serious discussion, I will put it in quotation marks.
So, in the future, you can save yourself some finger-work and just reply with "lol" instead.
EDIT: On a (still) serious tangent, I was just thinking about how unoriginal all of the characters in Smash really are.
They all have the same moves, in the same amounts, using the same inputs.
There is little to no variation (With the exception of B moves) in the effect of each move. There is no "Grappler" character, there is no "Shoto"... Why doesn't anybody's forward tilt shoot laser beams? Unless you have a sword, it's probably a roundhouse kick, or something related.
What really sets the characters apart are their jumping ability and speed (Land and/or air). You could say edge guarding also, to an extent. The edge is one of Smash's most unique features, IMO, and the ability to control it well is a big part of the game.