D
Deleted member
Guest
falco's been too good for 3 years now.
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Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!
- Thread starter otg
- Start date
Max?
Smash Champion
Best character in the game
Inty17
Smash Journeyman
Up B cancel too good
Shroomed
Smash Master
I'm gonna stick with Marth.
onionchowder
Smash Journeyman
Why? Doc's MUs too bad or something?
Max?
Smash Champion
I mean, it's a good life choice on his part. Frankly, I think Shroomed got too cocky placing well at Nationals and ****** his region uncontested for a year. Started playing secondaries to "prove a point" and ****, got lazy, and everyone else is catching up and now his Doc can't hang anymore.
Ya gotta stay on them sticks if you wanna be the best.
but yeah Doc sucks
Ya gotta stay on them sticks if you wanna be the best.
but yeah Doc sucks
Shroomed
Smash Master
Yeah, that's exactly what happened Max. I've just been winning so long in Norcal that I became content and stopped actually trying to improve and it came back to bite me in the ***.
I get more joy out of this game from playing Marth though, which is the reason I'm switching. Not simply because Doc sucks. However, Doc sucking might be why he's less fun than Marth.
I get more joy out of this game from playing Marth though, which is the reason I'm switching. Not simply because Doc sucks. However, Doc sucking might be why he's less fun than Marth.
knightpraetor
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,321
marth is really fun. i approve any decisions to switch based on that..marth vs sheik is really hard though..i recommend learning ICs for it since they seem to have the best vs sheik matchup in the game.
marth really has to maximize punishment when playing spacies though...so time off from the game tends to hit my vs spacies game the hardest
marth really has to maximize punishment when playing spacies though...so time off from the game tends to hit my vs spacies game the hardest
onionchowder
Smash Journeyman
Meh. Without Shroomed, idk where I'll find Doc vids to watch.
Max?
Smash Champion
He'll still use him, and at some point relatively soon I'm going to start entering tournies again.
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
good **** max. i wanna see more stuff from ya up there.
The Good Doctor
Smash Champion
onionchowder
Smash Journeyman
I was talking specifically about new vids. I should probably just look up old vids; I'm just used to only watching new vids 'cause of Starcraft, but SC has much bigger metagame shifts due to map rotations and balance patches and stuff.
unknown522
Some guy
Rainbow
Smash Apprentice
So I've been dabbling a lot with Doc lately and have found myself training with him more than Pika. The problem is if my two best characters are Doc and Pika, well, they don't really balance each other's weaknesses lol.
Shroomed
Smash Master
LOL nah.Is it because of zhu?
It's just how I've been feeling which is why I've been going Marth so much/randomly.
do you go to lawrencville?
unknown522
Some guy
Rainbow
Smash Apprentice
Yeah, do you know the people I smash with or what?
VGmasta
Smash Lord
I'm like "Because of Zhu? What's Unknown talking about?!"Is it because of zhu?
*Searches for recent Zhu vs Shroomed video*
"Ohhh... I see":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvAMjDqgfmI
unknown522
Some guy
I didn't even see the GFs set yet. I just heard it was 3-0. I saw WFs, and the marth was looking pretty good too.
It is on my list of things to watch though.
It is on my list of things to watch though.
Shroomed
Smash Master
I could've done it with Marth I know it! I just choked it away.
I'm still torn between going full Marth or sticking with Doc. I'll probably wind up sticking with Doc.
I'm still torn between going full Marth or sticking with Doc. I'll probably wind up sticking with Doc.
onionchowder
Smash Journeyman
How do you deal with C.Falcon approaching and zoning Doc out with Nairs? I've had a bit of success with random full-hop Nairs and capes, but they seem really punishable. Is there crouch-cancel stuff you can do or something?
unknown522
Some guy
U-tilt that ****
Edit: I understand shroomed
Edit: I understand shroomed
D
Deleted member
Guest
Mr.Lemon
Smash Journeyman
Doc > Everyone
end of discussion
end of discussion
VGmasta
Smash Lord
Just go Doc, Shroomed
Doc's FH nairs and capes are easily punished.
So only to those moves if you're really confident about what Falcon is gonna do.
If you're not sure what to expect, just shield approach.
I haven't research crouch-cancel stuff yet. I stopped having time to do research for this game sometime around late November 2011.
Doc's FH nairs and capes are easily punished.
So only to those moves if you're really confident about what Falcon is gonna do.
If you're not sure what to expect, just shield approach.
onionchowder
Smash Journeyman
Shield approach? like, just run up and shield? I don't think Doc can punish well-spaced Nairs OoS.
There are two types of Nairs that I'm having trouble with. One is just approaching Nairs, which I probably should be CCing and doing something, but I find that I usually get jabbed before I can do anything (probably just need to be faster). The other is stationary short-hop Nairs to zone me out, like when I'm at the edge and Falcon is doing sh Nairs in the center, just out of Doc's range. Sometimes I'm able to trade Ftilts or Utilts, but the trade doesn't seem worth it, especially when I get hit off the stage again.
There are two types of Nairs that I'm having trouble with. One is just approaching Nairs, which I probably should be CCing and doing something, but I find that I usually get jabbed before I can do anything (probably just need to be faster). The other is stationary short-hop Nairs to zone me out, like when I'm at the edge and Falcon is doing sh Nairs in the center, just out of Doc's range. Sometimes I'm able to trade Ftilts or Utilts, but the trade doesn't seem worth it, especially when I get hit off the stage again.
S l o X
Smash Champion
Doc is mad good. About to add him to my rotation.
shadrach kabango
Banned via Warnings
Play it by ear.
Your dilemma may even be a false dichotomy. For example you could just cut out the rest of your secondaries -- Sheik, Falcon, whoever else you might play when unmotivated/unchallenged -- and go Doc/Marth all the time. The best of both worlds.
I think once you've compartmentalized a significant amount of skill, using two characters is fine, maybe even preferable. But three-plus is when the risk/reward ratio becomes imba towards risk.
VGmasta
Smash Lord
Yes, run up and shield.
The purpose of shield approach is to find out what Falcon is actually gonna do. I'd rather shield approach than to throw out risky FH n-airs unless I'm confident Falcon isn't gonna punish me for it.
Now, if we're assuming Falcon is definitely gonna n-air, then yes FH something or time an up-tilt or whatever. If Falcon is gonna "space" n-airs, I just cape those.
And if you're at the edge and Falcon is doing the wall of SH n-airs, try grabbing the ledge (temporary invinciblity) and the instantly ledgehop -> waveland ->f-tilt/uptilt.
If you time the input well enough, you should still be invincible by the time the uptilt or f-tilt comes out.
Not sure if this helps you at all.
I still don't have an answer for crouch canceling anything yet.
The Good Doctor
Smash Champion
I think you should play Marth, bc Marth vs Sheik is free.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I think using two characters is actually beneficial for a lot of people. Chaddd made a really good post about it and how it relates to counterpicking and stuff like that. I don't really feel like dredging through posts for it though.
knightpraetor
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,321
a marth that picks up ICs instantly improves the matchup ratio against sheik by 20%
shadrach kabango
Banned via Warnings
Yeah, but if you're at a wall, ime messing around with two-plus characters merely prolongs it.
onionchowder
Smash Journeyman
I'm curious; what is the gist of his reasoning? I was always under the impression that playing multiple characters usually caused each individual character to have less flexible playstyles.
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
his reasoning probably revolves around ganon being ***, fox being better, and not having to be stuck to either of them so nobody can CP you on both stage and character.
SmashMac
Smash Lord
I used to main Falco and started using Doc. as a secondary. Then, I mained him, and got better at the game.
I do use multiple characters in some cases like Fox. It's good to have a variety of characters for given situations. It also helps in the matchup experience since you will know the matchup from both perspectives of play.
Max?
Smash Champion
Slox's problem is he plays too many characters. He should just stick to one, and probably not Falcon or Doc.
D
Deleted member
Guest
no need to switch mains IMO just practice secondaries vs SCRUBS to get the matchup/ perspective experience
unless your char SUX
unless your char SUX