Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!

[ChivalRuse]

If Doc d-smashes Marth's shield from really close, Marth can probably just fair oos, otherwise it's probably safe. If you react to the shieldstun really well, wd oos -> grab probably works too.

 

[Shroomed]

Dsmash is not nearly as safe as you all think. Everyone is just really bad at timing the shield stun.

In other news, I haven't entered a tourney with Doc in a while. Been going sheik all the time.
Anything Doc related to talk about guys?

 

[Dogysamich]

I did 3 10-stock 'round of doc the other day to put myself to sleep.

How 'bout that for doc related stuff? :x

 

[Max?]

Doc's uair is pretty good

 

[Shroomed]

Everyone should go to brandon's channel and watch how he spaces with wavedash. I will try to steal that for sure. He's ****ing good at it.

 

[Rostigalen]

So I went to a Swedish tournament, and I still didn't make it out of singles pools, although I am getting closer. I did however make it out of teams pools for the first time, using only Doc, so yay!

 

[Strong Badam]

If Doc d-smashes Marth's shield from really close, Marth can probably just fair oos, otherwise it's probably safe. If you react to the shieldstun really well, wd oos -> grab probably works too.

dsmash is -21 or -22 (depending on whether you hit on frame 5 or 6) on shield. wd oos -> grab takes 21 frames. the fastest thing Doc can do other than shield (which doesn't work against grab) is buffered spot-dodge or jab (frame 2). you'd have to react to wd oos within 14 frames and input the jab perfectly and your opponent would have to have imperfect timing.

 

[ChivalRuse]

You could also wd oos -> dolphin slash/d-smash, since those are only 5 frames startup.

 

[Max?]

Shroomed, thoughts on getting around the inevitable onslaught of Uairs after Falcon Uthrows you? This is pretty much the main way Hax gets damage on me and it puts me in some pretty bad situations if I get caught using my DJ at the wrong time. Mixing in cape helps everynow and then, but it seems like Falcon is guaranteed at least one uair from low - mid%.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Yeah. How is Shroomed so good against Falcon?

Can't really mash uair out of Falcon's shenanigans. That does leave Doc much. Haha.

 

[Max?]

I tend to go about 40/60 with Hax or so, I think I would win more if I could figure out some better defensive options/DI options so I don't give away as much free %. It also sucks that he CP's unlike Jeff... ***** is way too nice to you Shroomed.

 

[Strong Badam]

Shroomed, thoughts on getting around the inevitable onslaught of Uairs after Falcon Uthrows you? This is pretty much the main way Hax gets damage on me and it puts me in some pretty bad situations if I get caught using my DJ at the wrong time. Mixing in cape helps everynow and then, but it seems like Falcon is guaranteed at least one uair from low - mid%.

DI down & away. react to the knee and change your DI. tech.

 

[Max?]

Strongbad, this is immediately after the throw or after the uair or both?

 

[Strong Badam]

Mix up your DI on the uthrow so he can't just do the same thing each time. DI behind can get you knee'd, while DI away gets you knee'd or U-air'd. Watch your opponent and if you see Falcon entering the knee animation change your DI from down & away (optimal DI against uair unless you're at like 120%+ where it could get you killed) to up & toward falcon.

 

[Max?]

Aight thanks, way more helpful then you know.

 

[Strong Badam]

Living in the Midwest is helpful when it comes to the Falcon match-up.
The only Falcon I've ever played who has been able to follow up down&away DI -> tech is Darkrain.

 

[Max?]

I play vs. a ton of Falcon, the only characters I play more are probably Falco or Marth. That lil ***** aziz is just on a different level. Any advice for DIing Nair to prevent follow up?

 

[Shroomed]

With uthrow at low-mid percents I like to DI hard away and mash neutral air. About 60% of the time it comes out fast enough and we both get hit with each other's attack. Falcon's too worried about trying to hurry up and hit you before the hitstun is over to space the neutral air. So normally it trades and he can't follow up the first uair, unless he's at fairly low damage in which case he's fast enough to follow up anyway. For nair I just try to trade with my nair a lot. I try to trade to prevent a lot of followups.

For dthrow knee, DI down/away and MASH uair. It saves me 80% of the time.
Just combo falcon to death.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Yeah. How is Shroomed so good against Falcon?

Can't really mash uair out of Falcon's shenanigans. That does leave Doc much. Haha.

@ Shroomed: Oh. I stand corrected.

 

[VGmasta]

Falcon's a fun matchup for me now. I love ****** Falcons.

 

[T-Cash]

its all about the grab comboes =) .... but a captain falcon that puts alot of pressure on me usually ***** my face

 

[Strong Badam]

Captain Falcon can definitely apply more pressure than Doc can due to his speed.

 

[Shroomed]

You have to put the fear into falcon. Same with fox. Make their approaches seem way more risky/dangerous than they actually are. If they're not scared of wildly attacking you, you're going to lose.

Btw, good character is good

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjsa6wM3g8I

 

[Niko45]

I don't get it. It's not like your doc would have lost to that sheik.

Also, amazes me how people on the west coast are willing to throw away $20 when they clearly have no chance. Players over here have to be like dead even to even get a $5 MM going lol.

 

[Shroomed]

I could've won with doc too, but it's so much easier to punish with fox. I like to play alts when I can. I won a tourney with my sheik =).

But in norcal it's more about trying to see how well you do than about winning. At $20 he knew I would be trying hard (even though I went fox). Tafokints is actually pretty good and for some reason his janky sheik is hard for my doc.

The rush of playing for decent amounts of money is also pretty good.

 

[Max?]

Niko we gotta start MMing all the people who are worse then us for exorbitant amounts of money IMMEDIATELY.

 

[Niko45]

Lets get PAID

 

[DJ Nintendo]

I don't get it. It's not like your doc would have lost to that sheik.

Also, amazes me how people on the west coast are willing to throw away $20 when they clearly have no chance. Players over here have to be like dead even to even get a $5 MM going lol.

Definitely the truth. *****s only be money matching for like $1 lol. Even at national tournaments its the same ****. Its pretty sad and ********, but oh well.

 

[Shroomed]

They challenge me now. East Coast scared to MM? lol

Hopefully at Genesis I'll find more people to MM. I still haven't played Hax in tournament yet. I'm waiting for that.

 

[VGmasta]

You have to put the fear into falcon. Same with fox. Make their approaches seem way more risky/dangerous than they actually are. If they're not scared of wildly attacking you, you're going to lose.

This is very true. I strongly agree.

 

[Strong Badam]

Almost all money matches I do are $5 or $10.
****ing $1 mms, no one's going to take those seriously.

 

[CanISmash]

I'm calling b.s. on the MM nonsense. good players tend to always MM scrubs / people they can beat and not other good players.

only time this isn't the case is if theres some salt or grudge from something prior. It's just so greedy for a top player to be asking scrubs to money match. if the scrub wants to money match the top player thats different because its a learning experience for them.

TLDR; MM should be occurring with people not too far from your skill level

 

[Walt]

Whatever, look, if you challenge someone you've heard of and your name is like SSJ5_Goku_The_Best then either you're stupid or you want to learn in a pressure situation against someone good actually trying. I'm okay with it either way. And if Dajuan wants money then uhhh who cares? People need money man.

 

[Shroomed]

I used to challenge others, but now people challenge me. Yes I want money because I'm poor as well. Even really good players don't always like to MM. Except Hax, he's always down.

 

[S l o X]

yea, i'd MM people who suck like otg or niko for 5$ but dj (or jman or alu) is (are) a vet (s)and i'd rather sit down with him and learn than spend 10$ just to get *****, lmao.

give me a few months, i'll start taking your money and ec will stop complaining. D:

doc broken.

 

[Max?]

Let DJ "teach" you, lolll

 

[Shroomed]

I can't take a match 100% serious unless there's money on the line or I have a rivalry with the person.

I really want to play Jman in tournament =(

 

[ChivalRuse]

What's wrong with DJ "teaching"? Does he stop after you learn to tomahawk? xD

 

[Max?]

You just have to know DJ, and then it would make sense.

 

[Niko45]

yea, i'd MM people who suck like otg or niko for 5$

Gotta call bull**** on that one. Played you for like 45 minutes last no johns where was the MM then?