Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!

[ranmaru]

well I dunno. DJN prolly... in spirit maybe.

Btw you will do better ricky. : D I didn't do well myself...

Also, otg what do you mean when I have to get better with general game play? As in know all the characters or something?

I know there are somethings I do that I must correct on, haha, and I will. : D

 

[otg]

Yeah sorry Ran, I should've clarified more. I think you're still relatively new to the game and the tourney scene. I see you doing a lot of DOC specific things right, but not MELEE specific things (like baiting, reading your opponent and learning their habits,etc etc etc). That just comes with playing a lot of people and going out to tourney.

 

[SmashMac]

Yeah the Doc. dittoes were sick. Good job Dogy for taking me out. Sucks though how the next one had to play RockCrock. I was like lol @ this awesome bracket. That dude knows the Doc. ditto (probably my own fault).

 

[Dogysamich]

well if you're going to officially take the blame for me gettin tore out the frame by rockcrock, i gotta take the blame for you gettin the same from FMM.

 

[Rykard]

so yeah, i have a ton of tourney vids coming out soon, so i'll be sure to post those here when they are up.

Good **** meeting you ranmaru, and rykard good **** on beating my boy zach, he def knows doc and aint no slouch.

 

[VGmasta]

Yeah the Doc. dittoes were sick. Good job Dogy for taking me out. Sucks though how the next one had to play RockCrock. I was like lol @ this awesome bracket. That dude knows the Doc. ditto (probably my own fault).

Definitely your fault Rock knows the Doc matchup too well already. That Dogy vs Rock set was the first time I was kinda rooting against RockCrock. I really wanted to see a Doc player beat him. But I'm still happy for him. Oh well, We'll take him down next time. <3 Dennis though.

 

[St. Viers]

I wish I could play against a good ganon. I *think* I know how to get ganons (I play a wack doc), but I've only got to test this on players my level/a bit worse.

 

[SmashMac]

Yeah Full Metal destroyed me lol. Blasted Dogysamich and giving Fullmetal Doc. practice ><. Yeah Ricky, I didn't know who to root for. I just kept quiet since Rock always roots for me but I love Dogy. Would've been nice to see a Doc. player beat him but I'm glad Rock did well. Tournament was awesome overall.

 

[Dogysamich]

That was the first time I lost to rockcrock. >.>

And I could say "it was cause i was trying to work on new things" (cause i was through the whole tourney), but i mean NOTHING ****ING WORKED.

I actually sat around in between rounds tryin to figure out how I EVER beat the guy. It was making no sense.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

That was the first time I lost to rockcrock. >.>

And I could say "it was cause i was trying to work on new things" (cause i was through the whole tourney), but i mean NOTHING ****ING WORKED.

I actually sat around in between rounds tryin to figure out how I EVER beat the guy. It was making no sense.

RockCrock's a closet beast(?)

Smooth Criminal

 

[Dogysamich]

na he's always been beast.

AND BTW, WHY THE F*** DIDNT YO B**** A** SHOW UP? THERE WAS A REAL LIFE KIRBY MAIN THERE DESTROYING PEOPLE.

THAT DUDE IS THE TRUTH.

 

[Pi]

Kuya's a beast
I'm banning FD vs. doc.

 

[ranmaru]

Yeah sorry Ran, I should've clarified more. I think you're still relatively new to the game and the tourney scene. I see you doing a lot of DOC specific things right, but not MELEE specific things (like baiting, reading your opponent and learning their habits,etc etc etc). That just comes with playing a lot of people and going out to tourney.

It's alright. Yeah, even though I am new, I'm trying my best to get better anyways, because this game is so good. Ah I see. I hope so, because I just don't really know how to get better at that. I will deff be going to more tournies though. : D

 

[SmashMac]

Those double-Doc. teams were fun.

 

[Shroomed]

playing rockcrock is very fun, i like fullmetal's marth too

 

[VGmasta]

Yeah Full Metal destroyed me lol. Blasted Dogysamich and giving Fullmetal Doc. practice ><.

Yeah I hate Marths. I'm glad I didn't have your matches. You had to play Skrach and FullMetal.

playing rockcrock is very fun, i like fullmetal's marth too

Let's see, RockCrock takes away a stock from Doc in like three good reads. Where's is the fun part?!?

 

[ranmaru]

I like playing marths actually.

 

[SmashMac]

Well I actually know the match-up very well. This just further proves that with both players knowing the match-up and being at the same skill-level, the higher tier one will have more of an advantage.

 

[eighteenspikes]

i played fullmetal a lot at pound. dtilted the **** out of him

is anyone going to The Showdown in ohio next weekend?

 

[JPOBS]

nice meeting you at ceo vgmasta nice friendlies. thanks for callign ballistics when teams was starting.
dogy i played u in literally half a friendly cuz plank made us quit cuz doubles wa sstarting so i doubt u remember at all.

 

[TemPesT-]

for some reason i was able to combo uair into off stage yodel gimps last night. and then i still had a double jump to recover. freakin sweet.

 

[Dogysamich]

dogy i played u in literally half a friendly cuz plank made us quit cuz doubles wa sstarting so i doubt u remember at all.

captain falcon, in the corner, and when plank walked up and asked "can we use this tv for tourney?" i said "**** you tourneys are over rated" ? Right?

 

[otg]

So it seems like some of my tourney vids from this past weekend might've been lost "aka, the person who lost to me is too embarrassed to upload them" which really sucks, but at the very least, me vs. vanz will go online.

 

[JPOBS]

captain falcon, in the corner, and when plank walked up and asked "can we use this tv for tourney?" i said "**** you tourneys are over rated" ? Right?

na, it was fox on FD kinda in the middle of the venue

 

[qmann28]

Just a quick question about Doc:

What's the best way to practice as him when you're by yourself?

 

[St. Viers]

Play against a lvl one computer (I cycle through playing against fox, falco, ganon, marth, peach to go over respective weights/common annoying chars), and just practice things like shffling, edge-canceling, pill spacing, ledge-dashing, and "autocanceled" d-airs.

You *can* practice cg's on spacies, but computers don't DI d-throws, so no good practice there.

Then, if you're crazy, practice spacing capes (run forward, jump back, cape forward to stay where you are, but have a SH cape you can WD out of, etc. Also, if you wanna be cool, practice up canceling. You'll use it like, once ever (outside of waiting for them to respawn), but it's totally worth it...(or not)

 

[KirbyKaze]

Set CPU in training mode to Evade or Attack. It works for most characters for making them DI throw stuff.

 

[otg]

Alright guys, so here is me vs Vanz. Game 3 hasn't been uploaded yet I guess? idk what happened to it, but it's another match on FD that vanz wins. Def need advice here, I really dont know the peach matchup at all and it sucks that I had play vanz in tourney because we play a lot and he's the only peach expeerience I have so he knwos my style really well too..

Anyway tho, here it is and any advice people want to give will be appreciated..

Game 1
Game 2
Game 3 <- I get ***** pretty terribly, enjoy.

 

[St. Viers]

game 1:

0:44--silly goof-up, followed up by using double jump?!...you're lucky peach doesn't take astock here...

1:05: I get punished like that all the time-using n-air in this matchup is only really good for trading...I have yet to see you d-air, btw. You get back on-stage, but it looks like you had time to b-air there (I guess you didn't mean to jump back on?)
1:32 You lose a stock, when you coulda just grabbed the edge ;/ nice recoveries up to this point though
2:oo finally--also, I finally see a d-air, but used at a time where n-air would be better--when you're up close like that, n-air will trade, and comes out faster than d-air (3 frames vs ?8?11?)

2:18--that's the third missed jab->grab...that **** isn't gonna happen, either JCG or something different, but making the same mistake is ....

and the next stock you get trashed--you keep DIing/rolling into her, and you get punished for it. That b-air is tough to get around, and will eat your attempts to pill, n-air, and f-air.

3:12--trying to cg a peach at 85%? Anywho, rest of match proceeds like it should, but you're too far behind

*Overall, you recover well, which is good, considering how many times you got n/b-aired off for trying to challenge her when she has a % and stock lead on her. You also do well at avoiding d-smashes, but you punish them poorly. Remember, we aren't shiek....jab doesn't actually chain to anything, specially on someone light as peach. You didn't tilt like, at all, which is wierd, as I think f-tilt and up-tilt are key to out spacing peach.

*I liked how you thought of using the cape, but you kept using it when she wasn't committed, so she just floated back and then punished.

*When you got grabs, you never did anything off them--even if it's just a b-throw for damage, or d-throw->up-air if you don't think you can dunk her, or hell, f-throw to reset even, do *something* =P

Besides that, I can't help. If you didn't challenge her from the horizantal plane (in air), and didn't waste your double jumps to get away onstage, well, I think those were your biggest mistakes.

 

[otg]

Good **** viers, I really need to figure out peach in general. I'm not really too familiar with her range and movement or what she is capable of in a given circumstance. A peach at vanz level also punishes incredibly hard and has insane mixup and pressure on me, just look at game 3, its painful. Imma figure it out tho, ive done it before.


Also, I need more in general things. More dair is def important, gotta stop with the rolls and spotdodges (tough tho, im under pressure and im a scrub), and gotta figure out the best responses from a dthrow... grabs are precious and few.

 

[Dynamism?]

I need help. I don't know if anyone here would bother but I'm posting this anyway.

I've really been struggling to narrow down the characters I use in tournament, etc. (a main in general really) I simply can't decide who to play. I enjoy playing them all and have been successful in MMs and tourneys with each of them so none of that has cleared this up for me or been an issue, I just simply don't know who to stick with so even use random often.

If anyone cares about having 1 more Doc player, or wants me to stick with him if you know me or anything, please vote. :\

Any input is good but meaningless votes are completely welcome too if you don't know me/don't care but would still want me to play Doc or something.
I just need help.

Thanks. hahah
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=10468126#post10468126

 

[St. Viers]

@otg: more general advice:

1. When recovering, airdodging is something that you should only do as a mix-up. Everytime you did it in the matches, you had already gotten though and recovered. Instead of landing safely and shielding, or getting the edge, you airdodge (not even downwards), which puts you in enough lag to get punished.

2. Tilt more. They are how doc makes up for his stubby limbs.

3. When you grab, remember to pummel when they have percent. that extra 2% per hit can mean the difference of a chars death at 95% from a dunk and them living at 90%. Also, don't undervalue the use of simply d/f-throw (!) to pressure, either by walking up, pilling.

4. jab->jcg is almost always a better option than jab->grab. Also, so is jab->f-tilt.

Also, more peach specific advice:

1. Avoid FD as a starting stage. Lack of platforms, her ability to shut down pills, and it's killzones (just big enough to giver her an advantage w/o giving doc one) makes it worse (imo) for doc than DL64. At least you have increased survivability because of the bigger killzones. Also, a stage w/ platforms gives you a very good Oos option to escape jab->d-smash and jab->grab: your upB. On platformed stages, it gets you above her, which is the safest place (above and behind her, around 1:30 on a clock if she's facing left).

2. You can actually do well by just facing away and b-airing. Especially if they like jumping in using a turnip: I saw you get punished for caping them a few times. B-air will eat through and hit her, and from on ground,-> jump back->reverse cape will almost always end better than just caping, as it sends the turnip more at her, gets you away from the f-air, and gives you options after the cape is over (retreating back as you finsh the fall, WD, double jump, etc. (This is kinda theory though, as I never play people vanz' level).

 

[otg]

Also, more peach specific advice:

1. Avoid FD as a starting stage. Lack of platforms, her ability to shut down pills, and it's killzones (just big enough to giver her an advantage w/o giving doc one) makes it worse (imo) for doc than DL64. At least you have increased survivability because of the bigger killzones. Also, a stage w/ platforms gives you a very good Oos option to escape jab->d-smash and jab->grab: your upB. On platformed stages, it gets you above her, which is the safest place (above and behind her, around 1:30 on a clock if she's facing left).
.

Yo I was thinking the same thing earlier today. Good stuff. I think that FoD is the other stage to watch out for when striking. Chances are the match will end up going to Dreamland or BF.

 

[St. Viers]

right. FoD is too small, with too large of killzones, and the platforms are so low she can abuse d-smash all match...

I prefer PS>BF>YS>DL>FD>FoD, in that order.

I like YS because you get kills so fast, and personal familiarity with the platforms. (if I had vids, I have a pretty safe/interesting ledge options there that I'm fairly consistent with.)

 

[otg]

Yoshi's seems like it would be the best (at least for me, I love that stage) but I'm 99% sure he banned it.

 

[St. Viers]

I wouldn't like it more than BF, simply because the higher platforms make her being above you less problematic. Also, b-airing peaches under the stage is hilarious.

 

[otg]

So with stage striking you think BF is the best neutral? I mean I guess I could see that, but I would still argue Yoshis is better, it's just you will never see it game 1 because peaches are sure to strike it.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

fd ***** vs pch yo iono what yall are talkin bout.

ps is even better

 

[otg]

fd ***** vs pch yo iono what yall are talkin bout.

ps is even better

Except for the fact that there are no platforms for you to escape with. And the fact that she can bait your DJ really easily and **** the pants off you.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

that's only when you play like otg vs vanz game 3