Yeah of course shroomed will come in here and be like "GOOD **** MAN I FORGIVE YOU FOR RUNNING HEAD FIRST INTO A BRICK WALL! IT'S ALL GOOD!"
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Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!
- Thread starter otg
- Start date
eighteenspikes
Smash Master
lol i should scour my external for all the friendlies vids where i jump into a warlock punch for no ****in reason. im good like that sometimes
lol. You should duck one.
If you're past his elbow, you can just flat out duck warlock punch. Pretty comical.
Casually walk in, duck it, and then u.smash -> f.air.
If you're past his elbow, you can just flat out duck warlock punch. Pretty comical.
Casually walk in, duck it, and then u.smash -> f.air.
So yeah, wanna know what I just realized? UpB cancel is maaaaaaaad easy.
Is you face on way, upB slightly up the way you aren't facing, and then go straight down (7B->3 in keypad notation), it's really easy. As in, once I realized this (I was trying some other method, and got it like this, and was able to replicate it 13 times in a row, rather than the 2 or so tries out of the 20 I had attempted before). On a related note, mah friend took his gamecube back, so that I couldn't practice this outta shield....:/
Is you face on way, upB slightly up the way you aren't facing, and then go straight down (7B->3 in keypad notation), it's really easy. As in, once I realized this (I was trying some other method, and got it like this, and was able to replicate it 13 times in a row, rather than the 2 or so tries out of the 20 I had attempted before). On a related note, mah friend took his gamecube back, so that I couldn't practice this outta shield....:/
otg
Smash Master
I'm sort of confused as to your explanation on this one Viers. I mean, if this is as easy as you say it is, I might actually learn upB cancel, but in general I still feel regular old UpB is better in almost everyway.
Um, I know there is a thread about this, but I may as well ask here.
Besides damage, what benefit is there of an upB over an up B cancel? I know a major argument is that the upB cancel is hard, and punishable if messed up. However, besides that, people don't use up B to rack up damage, so that isn't better. The full up B may not get the final hitbox, meaning that the opponent recovers before you.
With platforms, it's better, as you're safer, but still not as safe as a canceled up B... I mean, if you edgecancel the up B and get a b-air combo, I guess that's good, but I'm pretty sure none of y'all practice the spacing for that, so...
So the simplest explanation:
1. Stand facing right.
2. Up B as if you were doing a reverse up B (on a clock face, around 10:30)
3. Bring the analog stick straight down (not to the down notch, but straight down from where you positioned the stick for upB)
4. You've done it, and are still facing right
If you try it and are missing something, just hit me up on aim or something XD
Again, I got mad excited, and then had to give up the cube, so I may be misremembering a detail/step, but I doubt it, because I was shocked at how much easier it was than I had thought, and shocked at the regularity I could pull it off with. (and also shocked that it didn't make me turn to face left.
Besides damage, what benefit is there of an upB over an up B cancel? I know a major argument is that the upB cancel is hard, and punishable if messed up. However, besides that, people don't use up B to rack up damage, so that isn't better. The full up B may not get the final hitbox, meaning that the opponent recovers before you.
With platforms, it's better, as you're safer, but still not as safe as a canceled up B... I mean, if you edgecancel the up B and get a b-air combo, I guess that's good, but I'm pretty sure none of y'all practice the spacing for that, so...
So the simplest explanation:
1. Stand facing right.
2. Up B as if you were doing a reverse up B (on a clock face, around 10:30)
3. Bring the analog stick straight down (not to the down notch, but straight down from where you positioned the stick for upB)
4. You've done it, and are still facing right
If you try it and are missing something, just hit me up on aim or something XD
Again, I got mad excited, and then had to give up the cube, so I may be misremembering a detail/step, but I doubt it, because I was shocked at how much easier it was than I had thought, and shocked at the regularity I could pull it off with. (and also shocked that it didn't make me turn to face left.
otg
Smash Master
Word, I'll give it a try the next time I play against someone. If I have any questions I'll just hit you up on AIM. As for reasons regular upB is better than upB cancel, at least for me I like being able to land on/thru platforms, change my direction and be mobile. If you wiff a upb cancel, you're just sitting there in windown lag for like 20 minutes... not very good.
eighteenspikes
Smash Master
every single up b cancel I do is from 8 to 3 on keypad notation, no matter what way I'm facing. it's not rocket science, just timing 
up b is better because it's easier, does more damage, and has other practical applications. It lets you get out of combos, and it can be EXTREMELY useful for getting off a ledge (gotta be extra careful not to get hit out of it tho). So I'd rather just use up-b all the time instead of perfecting the tech and then worrying about when to use what up-b...
up b is better because it's easier, does more damage, and has other practical applications. It lets you get out of combos, and it can be EXTREMELY useful for getting off a ledge (gotta be extra careful not to get hit out of it tho). So I'd rather just use up-b all the time instead of perfecting the tech and then worrying about when to use what up-b...
^^but if you get the cancel, you are *much* more mobile than in a full upB. Also, you know they'll only get hit by one hitbox, which has decent knockback--as opposed to a full upB, that can be SDI'ed out of/or simply not hit by the final hitbox, making for weak knockback and low stun.
@18s: I'm not saying there's no use for upB. I just think that there are def situations where doing the cancel is a much better option than the upB, and in some cases doc's best and only option. Also, I've started using upB on platforms now, as it's just mad easy to cancel of the edge unless you are in the exact edge or center XD--making it good for more than just getting off the platform.
Also, I have **** tech skill, and can pull off the way I said, without even being that fast--it's much slower than fingerspeed needed for good waveshines...
@18s: I'm not saying there's no use for upB. I just think that there are def situations where doing the cancel is a much better option than the upB, and in some cases doc's best and only option. Also, I've started using upB on platforms now, as it's just mad easy to cancel of the edge unless you are in the exact edge or center XD--making it good for more than just getting off the platform.
Also, I have **** tech skill, and can pull off the way I said, without even being that fast--it's much slower than fingerspeed needed for good waveshines...
HomeMadeWaffles
Smash Lord
can anyone help me out with this
when i waveland back on the stage vs fox
how do i aviod this b-air
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVkSU-NyBsA#t=4m14s
pretty much any decent fox does it, and eventually i get hit lol
when i waveland back on the stage vs fox
how do i aviod this b-air
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVkSU-NyBsA#t=4m14s
pretty much any decent fox does it, and eventually i get hit lol
vulcan: did you try the method I posted? I find it much easier than *good* waveshines.
@HMW: yeah, that's mad frustrating. From the video, it looks like there might be holes, but I can't say, not being able to test it...perhaps having jabbed/uptilted the first time, when you successfully got up. Letting him get you back on the ledge (after which he started using b-air better) was the first mistake I saw. After that, it looked like he gave you enough room that you coulda ledgehopped a pill, regrabbed, and then ledgedashed (although I don't think it woulda worked unless the fox was following a routine pattern that he may have gotten caught up in). Also, less perfect ledgedashing, simply ledgehopping up w/o the wd may have worked--if he was spacing for the dash, you'd be able to do something, and if not, you could try n-air, u-air, d-air, up, or something depending on how he approached. Again, I'm sure fox has options to cover all those, so not too helpful.
Also, when you got sent to the other side of the stage, using d-air woulda prevented him from jabbing you onto the ledge again. After he finally let you get back on, I know that you know you shoulda not f-thrown him, so I won't go into details on that.
@HMW: yeah, that's mad frustrating. From the video, it looks like there might be holes, but I can't say, not being able to test it...perhaps having jabbed/uptilted the first time, when you successfully got up. Letting him get you back on the ledge (after which he started using b-air better) was the first mistake I saw. After that, it looked like he gave you enough room that you coulda ledgehopped a pill, regrabbed, and then ledgedashed (although I don't think it woulda worked unless the fox was following a routine pattern that he may have gotten caught up in). Also, less perfect ledgedashing, simply ledgehopping up w/o the wd may have worked--if he was spacing for the dash, you'd be able to do something, and if not, you could try n-air, u-air, d-air, up, or something depending on how he approached. Again, I'm sure fox has options to cover all those, so not too helpful.
Also, when you got sent to the other side of the stage, using d-air woulda prevented him from jabbing you onto the ledge again. After he finally let you get back on, I know that you know you shoulda not f-thrown him, so I won't go into details on that.
otg
Smash Master
I noticed two things. He was doing FH bairs while you were just sitting in your shield. You could've probably rolled in towards the stage or just flat out wd oos and just got right past him. The other thing was the only times I saw you get hit by a bair was when you went for a grab, which I know is tempting especially in those situations, but if you're trying to be safe that's just leaving yourself open all day.
This is assuming of course, that you've succesfully WDed back onto stage and got your shield up in time.
Shroomed
Smash Master
uair from the ledge or sumthin
if he's hella far waitin 4 the dash, it'll let u get on the stage
if he's close, time/space it right and you can hit him too
if he's hella far waitin 4 the dash, it'll let u get on the stage
if he's close, time/space it right and you can hit him too
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
If you observe closely, you actually did avoid it at like 4:20. You merely failed yourself in the following action by trying to shield-grab him when it was a bad time to do so. And then you panicked and retreated to the edge, putting yourself in a bad position all over again.
This happened a bunch of other times, and was the source of much of the punishment Lucky got on you during that part of the match.
Stop trying to shield grab the spaced Fox >_<
ranmaru
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2008
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Huh? I always have been doing it like that. You know, reverse upb and hit the opposite direction from there asap. :] Or did I miss something entirely?
otg
Smash Master
Exactly, I saw a number of times where you could've just gotten right past him, but you were scared and either ran back to the edge, putting yourself back into that ****ty position.
In other news, WHAT'S REALLY GOOD DOC CONFERENCE?!
Waveland -> roll
waveland -> spotdodge
waveland -> shield
waveland -> -attack-
Ledgehop -> pill (and stay on ledge)
Ledgehop -> pill onto stage
Ledgehop -> Cape
Ledgehop -> up+b
Ledgehop onto the corner of the stage (into stuff)
Stall for a LONG time before you move.
I guarantee if $mac saw this, he'd tell you to waveland -> u.smash or waveland -> u.tilt.
Shroomed's crazy *** would somehow manage to get a ledgehop -> f.air to work.
18s would do ledgehop -> up+b.
DJN would stall forever, and then waveland roll.
I'd throw a few pills to get him to stop b.airing for a second.
___
You got a problem on the ledge? There's we gotta app. for that.
InterimOfZeal
Smash Champion
I need to partake in a Doc conference. Either I can't combo well with him, or he can't combo. This is like... life or death. I NEED TO COMBO PEOPLE, OR ELSE I'M SWITCHING TO FALCO AND JIGGZ!
otg
Smash Master
Hilariously enough, we concluded last night that Doc doesn't have any legit "combos", it's all DI dependant. He has follow ups for every form of DI (to some extent) vs. various characters, but true death combos? No.
Tatzelwurm136
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2009
- Messages
- 19
what can you do when someone DIs away from uair?
what other combo moves does doc have?
what other combo moves does doc have?
depends on what character/percent.
if theyre a fast faller, yu can sometimes just run/wd forward and techchase/punish missed tech.
InterimOfZeal
Smash Champion
SOoooooo
All he has are like... 2-3 pieces, into techchase stuff?
Cuz that's all I can nail, esp if they hard DI away/up (depending on char).
It's really annoying. I wanna combo people. If I wanted to have to reaaaad, I'd play Barwl.
...ornot.
But still, I want to put the hurt on *****es. Is that just beyond Doc's capabilities?
otg
Smash Master
That's not it, you just have to be realistic with how you go about dealing with your opponents. You shouldn't even be trying to juggle the balls off people, you should be trying to get them off stage as quickly as ****ing possible.
VGmasta
Smash Lord
LOL, Dogy knows the Doc mains' playstyles so well.
otg
Smash Master
So I've officially come to the conclusion that Mario does better than Doc in the following matchups, AND ONLY the following matchups:
Sheik, Falcon
Ganon is a maybe, tho I think that Mario and Doc's specific advantages over the other are both effective on ganon equally, so it probably comes down to preference.
I origionally put Marth, but I think that matchup comes down to preference as well.
Sheik, Falcon
Ganon is a maybe, tho I think that Mario and Doc's specific advantages over the other are both effective on ganon equally, so it probably comes down to preference.
I origionally put Marth, but I think that matchup comes down to preference as well.
boss8
Smash Hero
eighteenspikes
Smash Master
good **** dogy you are correct, ps that would have owned hte fox, he almost definitely would have been forced to tech on the platform, at worst with his momentum destroyed and at best ripe for the punishment
otg
Smash Master
New vids from me coming shortly. If you wanna sub go here and you'll see a ton more: http://www.youtube.com/user/neyeckay
Here's the first of many, enjoy my slippery Doc:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgdXRnUTIbE
So much sludge. Please feel free to laugh at my fox lol, its lulzy
Here's the first of many, enjoy my slippery Doc:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgdXRnUTIbE
So much sludge. Please feel free to laugh at my fox lol, its lulzy
boss8
Smash Hero
you spotdodge more then tweek from south park........STOP SPOT DODGIN!!!! xD
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
I agree with Boss.
otg
Smash Master
but I'm so sexy tho. Nah you guys are right, I commented on it in the youtube vid. I just do it a lot under pressure, tho I was doing it waaaaay too much with Fox. With Doc it's not as bad. Still tho, sexyness. Don't be hatin
boss8
Smash Hero
im not hatin......lol it will just become punishing after time.....why would u spotdodge after u waveland from edge if u get invincability frames.....to avoid a grab???
ranmaru
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2008
- Messages
- 13,297
- Switch FC
- SW-0654 7794 0698
Uh no. I give him credit for trying that though, but Doc looks weird in those pictures... Also why doesn't link look so good either? xD
Now my friend eric would think I'd be playing Brawl more because of this. Nope.
eighteenspikes
Smash Master
hahahaht hat looks so laughably bad the roy looks ok though
the roy looks ok though
eighteenspikes
Smash Master
I actually do feel pretty embarrassed lookin at it :embarrass
he.. he doesn't look like that in melee... does he? :embarrass :embarrass
he.. he doesn't look like that in melee... does he?
:embarrass :embarrass