DG Archive & MVPs

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Ah, alright. I misunderstood.

I sort of feel that that dilutes the nature of the MVP award, however. You are now awarding it for providing instruction, rather than solely for being the player(s) who made the largest contribution towards their team's win condition. That's okay, I suppose. It is simply a different interpretation of Most Valuable Player.

^^^This.

Principally, since Newbie games are designed differently and construct their playlist in a way uniquely designed to tailor the level of play in the game, making the MVP award in a newbie game equal to that of a non-newbie game cheapens the value of the MVP award.

Remember, principally this is the case.

We don't run so many newbie games though that people would use them to like farm MVP awards though by outshining brand new players or whatever. So ultimately I don't think it matters much at all, and I'm not really down with stripping people of their MVP status retroactively.

If anything I'd say that the rule that only brand new players in newbie games can be eligible for MVP of their games, and ideally I'd like to see that award be more of an MVN (most valuable newbie) or some other sort of honor of distinction but one that isn't quite equal to a normal game MVP.

Reason being is yes, you accomplished the same task if you win MVP in a newbie game as you did in a normal game if you won it; you played either the best for your winning faction, or you played SO WELL for your faction and came so close to facilitating a win that you still deserve it over the winners. The point is, even though the same criteria exists for MVP in both newbie AND normal games, the level of performance required to reach the criteria is often very, very different. Hence, the diluting of the MVP award.

 

[Xiivi]

Quite a few Newbie games have been more of 'new to dgames' vs. 'new to mafia'. Also I've seen plenty of normal games with a similar inexperienced vs. experienced ratios anyway. Newbie games are more of an incentive for more people to come to dGames really.

 

[mentosman8]

Ahhh yes, that was what happened. Can't believe I forgot that when that was one of the key reasons I picked you guys for an mvp AND how mad you both were about itXD

 

[CT Chia]

what is the reasoning rly for mvp status and hydras? i dont see why they would go to the hydra acct and not indiv plyers

but i digress... can i plz have the mvp for smash bros mafia?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=10181801&postcount=1104

This post felt so good.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

The Hydra account should get the award because.... the hydra account accomplished the task lol.

It's so simple idk how people don't get it.

There's no way to empirically prove that one or both players on their own performed well enough to earn an MVP.

What you can prove is whether or not the hydra as a whole did.

Thus, you give the award to the player that beyond and form of doubt performed at the MVP level. That is unequivocally the hydra account.

Plus, why split up an award for two people when the award was given based on their performance as a whole?

Like literally everything makes sense about giving the Hydra account the award and so little makes sense about just taking extra MVP awards on the constituting players' accounts.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Chibicat in Smash Mafia is the only time I would recommend the player get the award. Chibo earned it because Tom never showed.

 

[M.K]

It's going to cause too much drama if one outlier of a single instance of a hydra being dominated by one player is considered and others are not evaluated. Ultimately the simplest solution lies in giving the award to the hydra instead of reevaluating circumstances based on player involvement.

 

[CT Chia]

I just think the players deserve it since they are what makes up the hydra, and sometimes hydras are one time things, to where players wont later take their accomplishments along with them (into their profiles)

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

It's going to cause too much drama if one outlier of a single instance of a hydra being dominated by one player is considered and others are not evaluated. Ultimately the simplest solution lies in giving the award to the hydra instead of reevaluating circumstances based on player involvement.

Uh, what? There is a specific instance where the other half even recognizes that he wasn't there,... at all. Not that one person did most of the work. One person did all of the work.

 

[CT Chia]

I was already awarded the MVP for that game who cares lol

I'm just saying in general, I don't see why the players don't receive recognition if they are part of a hydra.

Stupid hydras, ban them lol

How bout the unfair advantage of 2 players working together to get an mvp status :/
A single player sort of has to do double the work

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Or be like me and be better than any combination of two lesser players could be.

Protip: The best players often have confidence bordering on delusion. It's an attitude to develop. It's also my motto.

 

[ronEEke]

What about a combination of two superior players?

ohhhh what

 

[ronEEke]

why aren't I ASLEEEEEEEP

 

[Kirby King]

am I not*


*or are we not, I guess

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

What about a combination of two superior players?

ohhhh what

You kids have yet to show me one. Let alone two.

Get at me.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

If one player in the hydra is man enough to recognize that he didn't do **** for the hydra and thinks the other player in the hydra deserves the MVP but not himself (just like what happened with Chibi cat) then it can be dealt with and the MVP award to the player that actually played. Otherwise, the hydra should just get the award. There's no other way to measure the worth of each player's contributions and thus you must award the MVP to the only play who unequivocally earned the MVP, the hydra.

The argument that "sometimes hydras are a one time deal and thus the dice on the hydra account is wasted; I'd prefer it on my main account" is hardly compelling in the face of the principal matter.

I also agree that principally hydras are unfair but practically I don't see hydras dominating games left and right.

The average SWF hydra plays just as well as the average SWF single player on average IMO so I don't think we need to exempt them from consideration or anything.

 

[X1-12]

What do you think about the two hydra players asking the mod to decide which acc it goes on, the mod would be then able to read chat logs and decide whether both players deserve it, if so they both get dice, if not then either the hydra or just the one player of the mod's choosing gets it

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Again, the interactions between the two players is what led them to get the MvP status and it can't be proven otherwise, sans the case previously mentioned, so why not leave it on the hydra.

Besides, I want both of the accounts I play on to have some pimpin dice.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

For my roleplay, The Tournament, are we allowed to select an MVP when that finishes?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

What do you think about the two hydra players asking the mod to decide which acc it goes on, the mod would be then able to read chat logs and decide whether both players deserve it, if so they both get dice, if not then either the hydra or just the one player of the mod's choosing gets it

I'd say if the mod actually is willing to put the time and effort to go through the logs and determine which player from the hydra deserves the MVP most, then that would be acceptable.

I wouldn't vouch for having this system and allowing both players to get the MVP on their individual accounts. If they are both deserving, the hydra should get it since they are essentially sharing the MVP award. The way I see it, there is ONE MVP, and thus, ONE account gets the award. Plus there's no way to confirm whether or not the mod actually went through all the logs and what not and actually thoroughly evaluated both players to reach the conclusion they played dead evenly.

So basically, either the hydra account gets it, or one player gets it either by having the other player just say their partner deserves it more or by having the mod decide if they so choose.

 

[thedocsalive]

Sorry for random bump of an old discussion that nobody cares about.

@ Adum: As good as TDA was in SSB:M, I really don't think it would be fair to give an MVP to someone who replaced back into a game after dying, let alone someone who replaced back into a game as the ******* mod scum mason-who's-partner-was-told-he-was-a-mod-confirmed-townie after dying as town with two lives. =/

In fact, I really don't think anyone who replaces back into a game they already died in should be eligible for MVP. Luckily that almost never happens so it really isn't particularly relevant.

I disagree on me being ineligible for those reasons. Drab asked me to replace back in because he needed someone, so I accepted. I didn't have any private information in my initial role, so it's not terribly unreasonable. Obviously it's not as good as having a fresh replacement, but it worked at the time. Also, why is it my fault I had a broken-*** role? ^_^

If you think the game itself should be ineligible for an MVP for various reasons, like the newbie games that people were discussing, that's different. Similarly, if you think someone played better than me (you, Chill, etc.), then that player should be MVP. But I don't think it shouldn't be me just because of the way the game was run.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

I wasn't trying to say that I had a problem with you replacing back into the game. Just like you said, Drab needed a replacement and you obliged. That's not a bad thing at all.

It's also not your fault that you had a ****-win broken role.

It's just that that combination of factors gives you too much of an advantage as a player to in my opinion be eligible for MVP. You had two lives as town, PLUS a crazy good scum role, PLUS (and this is the most important part) you played for both teams in the same game. This fundamentally muddles yor consideration since you actively worked toward both wincons which is an opportunity no other player got in that game, and that players in general rarely get. I guess pretty much this translates into me arguing that the whole game should be ineligible for an MVP.

Wasn't trying to assert that anyone else in the game played better or worse than you, I was just trying to point out that it is problematic considering someone with so many advantageous and unconventional factors for an MVP award.

You played well yes and I'm not saying that my argument for your ineligibility is based on anything related to your specific play at all. It's just that the way the game was run fundamentally gave you massive advantages over other players especially in terms of opportunity to succeed that no other players were allotted (for example, playing well but keeping yourself alive is often a major part of MVP play and you being able to be revived on the other faction so late in the game is a huge unfair advantage in that regard).

 

[Nicholas1024]

I suppose the question here is "Is a player with a broken role eligible for MVP?"

Thedocisalive, would you have given Frozen the MVP in South park mafia (or whichever game he had the win-broken role in) had he used his role's power to win the game?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Eh, I agree nick that that is part of the problem, but IMO the fact that he had functionally 3 lives, 1 of which was for the other faction constitutes the bigger, opportunity central issue.

 

[Xiivi]

For my roleplay, The Tournament, are we allowed to select an MVP when that finishes?

yes of course

 

[thedocsalive]

I suppose the question here is "Is a player with a broken role eligible for MVP?"

Thedocisalive, would you have given Frozen the MVP in South park mafia (or whichever game he had the win-broken role in) had he used his role's power to win the game?

No, I would assert that the role was SO broken and poorly designed that it would have rendered the game completely unfair and imbalanced, so no one would deserve an MVP. Scum mason isn't as powerful as THAT, but in the context of the first mafia game ever on SWF, maybe you could make that judgment?

It's just that that combination of factors gives you too much of an advantage as a player to in my opinion be eligible for MVP. You had two lives as town, PLUS a crazy good scum role, PLUS (and this is the most important part) you played for both teams in the same game. This fundamentally muddles yor consideration since you actively worked toward both wincons which is an opportunity no other player got in that game, and that players in general rarely get. I guess pretty much this translates into me arguing that the whole game should be ineligible for an MVP.

Hey, I may have had two lives as town, but I still managed to die after only one day/night cycle! Yay being on your own bandwagon. xD

Yeah, working towards both wincons is weird to consider. Town TDA alone certainly wouldn't deserve an MVP for living one day. Scum TDA alone maybe, do you think ANYONE could have done what I did with that role, or did I do well with it to win as handily as I did? If you think the latter, and my scum performance alone was better than anyone other player's play in that game, would you be willing to consider it as a separate entity?

Wasn't trying to assert that anyone else in the game played better or worse than you, I was just trying to point out that it is problematic considering someone with so many advantageous and unconventional factors for an MVP award.

I know, I just brought it up for a little comparison of reasons to give/not give MVP to me/someone else.

You played well yes and I'm not saying that my argument for your ineligibility is based on anything related to your specific play at all. It's just that the way the game was run fundamentally gave you massive advantages over other players especially in terms of opportunity to succeed that no other players were allotted (for example, playing well but keeping yourself alive is often a major part of MVP play and you being able to be revived on the other faction so late in the game is a huge unfair advantage in that regard).

As I said, are you willing to consider scum TDA separately from town TDA?

I personally don't think the game was fundamentally broken by my replacing/the somewhat ridiculous roles I got, and therefore someone should be MVP. Obviously me as a whole is weird, for various reasons that frozen listed. Maybe considering each performance individually would be better?

Ugh, I don't know why the game link in the OP doesn't work. I thought someone fixed it and put some of the old games back together?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

I still sorta have a problem with considering town TDA separate from scum TDA for MVP consideration but I honestly have no good reasoning to back it up that I can explain well at all. So I guess it really isn't exceptionally problematic and it could practically be done.

Problem with this whole deal is that game mods determine MVP and AFAIK Drab has fallen off the face of the earth. Whole thing is kind of moot with this being the case.

As for the game itself, I think marshy linked it somewhere else in the thread. He put together some giant mega thread that contains like 2 or 3 old games I believe, but the old original links don't work.

 

[thedocsalive]

I still sorta have a problem with considering town TDA separate from scum TDA for MVP consideration but I honestly have no good reasoning to back it up that I can explain well at all. So I guess it really isn't exceptionally problematic and it could practically be done.

Problem with this whole deal is that game mods determine MVP and AFAIK Drab has fallen off the face of the earth. Whole thing is kind of moot with this being the case.

Good point @ mod disappearing, it doesn't matter anyway.

As for the game itself, I think marshy linked it somewhere else in the thread. He put together some giant mega thread that contains like 2 or 3 old games I believe, but the old original links don't work.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=278900
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=278905

These don't work anymore, though they used to. Major

 

[Terywj [태리]]

yes of course

Okay. Thanks, Xiivi.

 

[McFox]

Lol not sure how I ended up with an MVP for Millers. True, I technically won, but man, I did not feel like I played well at all. None of what you saw was any kind of ploy by me. It wasn't any kind of tricky way I was acting in order to win. I really was mad at Cello, and I really did just claim to try and get the mafia to side with me. I really didn't know they wouldn't also win.

 

[Xivii]

Same with PikMafia. Although Swiss and Zen both played great games, they played a great TEAM. However, Chuckie had both of them pinned endgame, just had pretty crappy town support. Thus, the team won, but I gave MVP to Chuckie because he had the best plan, and would've won the game for town if town had some other strong members to back up his claims.

Why does it say Swiss too?

 

[Swiss]

'Cuz I rock.

Catch up man.

:D

 

[Xivii]

I > you that game oolmonke

 

[Swiss]

>:[

Daykill: Zen

 

[vanderzant]

Not to be a **** about it, but can some mods figure out the MVPs for Dgames Mafia and Cartoon Cartoons Mafia. I won both of them and would like to see if I'd be MVP for either :/.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

jungle will probably reread cartoon cartoons soonish. no one will be getting dice for dgames

 

[Dastrn]

I'm curious about Oddworld mafia MVP. It was a mad fun game, and I think either my hydra or Cello could both be considered MVP, but I want to hear from kataefi who she liked best for MVP, since she could see it all unfolding the whole time.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Kataefi is a he.

 

[Kataefi]

I need a name change

Yeah I spoke to Xiivi just before it finished and we said both Xastrn and Cello should get it.