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Event - MLG Anaheim 2014 Dear MLG

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-Ran

Smash Master
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First, of course, I'm going to thank you for picking up Smash Brothers for the circuit since it aids in our exposure and provides our best players with a legitimate opportunity to play against each other. Unfortunately, the rest of this thread is going to address the apparent shortcomings of the tournament to our community at large. As a professional organization, I had high hopes for your ability to actually manage the tournament for the onlookers, but it appears that you are incapable of doing so at even a snail's pace.

Believe it or not, our community loves to watch and be a part of events, even if we are left with nothing more than a textual stream. There was one tournament [Clash of the Titans 4?] where the video feed went out completely, but SamuraiPanda continued the stream with nothing but an audio feed commenting on the matches as they went on. Though you lack the ability to stream Brawl matches, there is literally nothing preventing you from having a laptop set up to stream audio updates, or provide a platform for the various players to talk to the community via a chat.

Speaking of chat, I must say that the Facebook integration is a halfhearted effort. I do not want to spam my entire Facebook page with MLG updates that are going to pollute the updates of all my friends into oblivion. A simple java chat would suffice for the needs of our community. I fully believe that communication through the Facebook chat is actually preventing people from commenting due to not wanting to flood their personal Facebook. Forcing us to use this method of chat is ridiculous.

In terms of updates for the bracket, it took us over five hours to get a bracket. Updates were incredibly slow. At the very least, if you had an audio stream going on, the important matches would be able to be conveyed to the community instantly. You don't need to have a trained analyst manning the mic, but rather just let the players interact with the community. You'd be amazed at the poise they are capable of exhibiting. I digress, we need to have updated brackets and matches so that we can discuss them and marvel at the matches that are happening. On that note, it would be rather nice to see the bracket include the mains of the various players so that we can see character match ups.

Doubles broadcasting is nearly nonexistent. Truly, you should be providing us with a bracket that is at the very least being updated. There is real money behind this secondary event, and it should be treated as such. Instead, we're deprived of the entire day's hype and left with four updates at the most.

MLG, I would hope that you take my advice and adopt an audio-stream station, faster updated brackets, and a better chat application for our community. Due to your inability to secure the rights to video streaming, you can at the very least provide us the above.

PS: We'll have to talk about your stage list another day.
 

napZzz

Smash Hero
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It really would be much better if they could've let the people who couldn't go in on it you know. It really gives more hype and makes the tourneys better

gotta love the mk friendly stage list
 

SFA Smiley

The SFA King
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I expected this to be whiny but those were actually really valid points. I was up till like 4am on a school night listening to that CoT4 radio commentary and it was amazing, I didn't even regret it in the morning (actually I did.) But yeah our text "stream" isn't so much a text stream as it is a text water conservation public faucet (The ones that you click the button and they run for about 20 seconds while your hands are still slightly soapy so you press it again to finish washing your hands and it continues to run for the next 15 seconds even though you didn't need another FULL rinse, you just needed that little extra bit. I hate those things.

Radio-esque commentary would be extremely cool though, I'm down for that.
 

rPSIvysaur

[ɑɹsaɪ]
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I'd love the audio commentary. Hearing the personalities of different smashers is one of the reasons why I love livestream events.

And please get rid of the Facebook interface, I started posting then realized it posted a bunch of stuff on my wall then stopped posting. And hardly anyone knew who I was.
 

TreK

Is "that guy"
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50% of the people I have on facebook don't even know I play in tournaments.
They would be quite choked seing me post something about people '******' other people and being good at it. Moreover, in English. Yeah, I would feel quite uncomfortable.

Cus yeah, you had euro readers :V
 

Purple

Hi guys!
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tl;dr

Let them sort things out before you start having problems. You bring valid points but understand this is only the 2nd MLG showing for Brawl, and Brawl is a completely different game than melee. They'll figure things out as time goes on. They did it for melee, they'll do it for Brawl.
 

-Ran

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However, MLG has been running events for years now. I expect a level of professionalism from them that we are currently not receiving. MLG isn't a few guys running tournaments out of their garages, and thus we should demand better from them.
 

Calebyte

Smash Lord
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I pretty much agree with everything here. If the text stream wasn't on Facebook I'd be all over it. I also thought the spectator's experience for SSB was terrible. It was bizarre that SSB got no coverage at the event itself, considering we had the largest turnout next to Halo. Tekken had far fewer people than SSB, but they still got their finals projected on the main stage. WoW had live commentary and a lot of interviews. SSB finals were played on the regular stations, which led to 150+ spectators sitting on the floor. The spontaneous commentary wasn't good, it seemed like commentating wasn't even planned for the event. I still had a ton of fun at the event, but Smash wasn't repped at all. I know there are a lot of issues with Nintendo not sponsoring the competition, but there's still a lot MLG could have done to make SSB more enjoyable for spectators.
 

vVv Rapture

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tl;dr

Let them sort things out before you start having problems. You bring valid points but understand this is only the 2nd MLG showing for Brawl, and Brawl is a completely different game than melee. They'll figure things out as time goes on. They did it for melee, they'll do it for Brawl.
What does Brawl being different from Melee have anything to do with a stream? Tekken 6 is very different from Gears of War 2, but when those games changed places, oh wow, there's a Tekken stream.

From what I know, MLG won't pay for the rights to have a stream. Nintendo, as they always make sure we are completely aware of it, does not want someone else making money off of their IPs. That makes sense. They are a business. That'd be like Microsoft allowing Sony to make a Halo game and take all the profits. Microsoft would want money from it.

However, MLG won't pay it because they know they can't. MLG barely makes a profit, if any, from its business, so to shell out extra money for the rights to the stream when they can cut corners and just have a "liveblog" is ridiculous.

MLG probably didn't have to pay for the rights for Melee a few years back since MLG wasn't as big in North America as it is now. Nintendo probably treated it like they do with independent tournaments: let them do what they want. However, now that MLG is bigger, Nintendo has noticed and wants something from it.

So, if any of you want a stream, you should be talking to MLG about it more than Nintendo, not the other way around.
 

Purple

Hi guys!
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However, MLG has been running events for years now. I expect a level of professionalism from them that we are currently not receiving. MLG isn't a few guys running tournaments out of their garages, and thus we should demand better from them.
Nintendo is not allowing them to showcase anything about the game, or record anything that they can sell via DVD. To ask for them to record it without them getting any profit themselves (i.e. selling the recordings for money) is pretty unlikely, and with the sponsored money they are giving us. I doubt that we would seriously boycott their tournaments until they start giving us our demands; too much money is on the line.

@Rapture - I was referring to the stage lists and rulesets for tournaments. They were the same way for melee and then were changed to what we are used to. They will probably do the same for Brawl.

Now, knowing that they barely make any money off of MLG events, why do you think they would record the events and pay nintendo money? If they do, they will probably drop brawl due to losses in money.
 

-Ran

Smash Master
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I'm not telling them to record the events. If you took the few minutes to read the initial post, you'd realize that I'm asking them to create an audio stream of the players that are at the event. This would provide us with a means of keeping up the hype for the event, and passing on information at faster than a snail's pace. I fully understand the limits of the rights for the video, but there's nothing preventing them from having verbal commentary.

More so, as players and a community we are fully capable of making suggestions to MLG. It has nothing to do with the money they are/aren't making from the events. This is a quality of presentation issue, which could be resolved with a few ounces of effort and application of technology that is already currently available.
 

Remzi

formerly VaBengal
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Agreed on all accounts.

Audio stream would be awesome (until we get a video stream <3)

I don't want to flood my facebook with MLG chat
 

UltiMario

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Or you yell at Nintendo about not being an *** and just letting them stream.

It's not like they're stealing games and selling them for their own profit, there is nothing wrong with letting people watch, it's like suing a movie theater for showing your movie.
 

vVv Rapture

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Nintendo is not allowing them to showcase anything about the game, or record anything that they can sell via DVD. To ask for them to record it without them getting any profit themselves (i.e. selling the recordings for money) is pretty unlikely, and with the sponsored money they are giving us. I doubt that we would seriously boycott their tournaments until they start giving us our demands; too much money is on the line.

@Rapture - I was referring to the stage lists and rulesets for tournaments. They were the same way for melee and then were changed to what we are used to. They will probably do the same for Brawl.

Now, knowing that they barely make any money off of MLG events, why do you think they would record the events and pay nintendo money? If they do, they will probably drop brawl due to losses in money.
They won't, that's the thing. MLG will lose money on it because the profits they get from the tournament, with or without the stream, do not change with that factor. They probably won't drop the game because of its high attendance, but they won't gain a profit from a stream.
 

vVv Rapture

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Don't be suprised but brawl will probable be dropped next season.
What makes you say that?

The game has excellent attendance, a big online audience despite no stream and tons of hype. There's no reason for them to drop it. They are making more money off of it than Tekken.
 

demonictoonlink

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Not gonna lie, the FB thing is ******** and I will never post in that chat for it to show up there.

Good point. I too thought this was going to be whiny, but it's great.
 

Mota

"The snake, knowing itself, strikes swiftly"
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Totally agree with OP, audio stream, comments and chats from real smash players at the very least. + Change the Facebook chat.
 

Blacknight99923

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tbh I heard things from the twitters of smashers on AIB BEFORE the MLG updates. I understand a live video feed is currently impossible for MLG to do as a buisness and it isn't fair for us to ask that of MLG but an audio stream doesn't seem unreasonable considering the turnout we have
 

etecoon

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facebook chat is indeed fail and so is it loading on and slowing down EVERY page of smashboards :/
 
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Oh my god what etecoon said. Yes, the board is run by MLG. Yes, the results may be interesting to some. No, I don't want to see it for a day before after and during the event on every page I load. I might casually glance at it or participate in the Xat, but that... is just bad.
 

Ussi

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I agree facebook chat is horrendous for flooding all my friend's and family's notifications. My mother told me to stop.

After a while most of us just went on a XAT Chat dedicated for talking about MLG. We got most of out updates from people who had friends relaying information back to us via text and twitter We even had a couple of smashers go and RECORD matches themselves for us to watch.

How about we set up our own audio commentary instead of asking MLG for one. We've done everything so far on our own, why stop now?
 

AlphaZealot

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However, MLG has been running events for years now. I expect a level of professionalism from them that we are currently not receiving. MLG isn't a few guys running tournaments out of their garages, and thus we should demand better from them.
Before you talk about professionalism you should probably attend an event. 250 person tournament finished before 10:30PM on Saturday.

The actual tournament is more professional than anything that exists or has ever existed. The only qualms are with the online content portion for people who aren't at the tournament. Most of the things you mention can't be done because of Nintendo, this includes an audio stream (to big a risk, I'd rather have no stream and have an MLG tournament, then have a stream of some kind and run the risk of Nintendo throwing a hissy fit and losing the game at MLG forever).
 

Tyr_03

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Before you talk about professionalism you should probably attend an event. 250 person tournament finished before 10:30PM on Saturday.

The actual tournament is more professional than anything that exists or has ever existed. The only qualms are with the online content portion for people who aren't at the tournament. Most of the things you mention can't be done because of Nintendo, this includes an audio stream (to big a risk, I'd rather have no stream and have an MLG tournament, then have a stream of some kind and run the risk of Nintendo throwing a hissy fit and losing the game at MLG forever).
I don't think anyone has said anything bad about how the tournament is being run. Stop being defensive. The point the OP is addressing is the failure to communicate with the community.

While I don't agree with the wording of the OP, he has a valid point. MLG could do a lot better at getting information out, especially about doubles. The facebook chat thing is pretty annoying too and seems like an easy fix.

I don't really see why people who can't make it to the tournaments should be ignored or dismissed when they bring up complaints. I also can't really imagine why an audio stream would bother Nintendo at all considering it wouldn't display any of their products. But hey, it's not my thing. Maybe you all should attempt to communicate with Nintendo about it and see how it goes rather than just immediately dismissing complaints from fans and competitors.



On a side note, I think it's stupid that we have to ask everyone if they think Metaknight should be banned every 10 seconds. Is Overswarm writing all the questions or something?

MLG is awesome for running tournaments like this. I hope they continue to improve the tournament experience for all those involved.
 

Ussi

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How is an audio stream risky? Just TALKING about brawl can get nintendo to sue MLG?

Edit to below poster: go ahead XD
 

vVv Rapture

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Before you talk about professionalism you should probably attend an event. 250 person tournament finished before 10:30PM on Saturday.

The actual tournament is more professional than anything that exists or has ever existed. The only qualms are with the online content portion for people who aren't at the tournament. Most of the things you mention can't be done because of Nintendo, this includes an audio stream (to big a risk, I'd rather have no stream and have an MLG tournament, then have a stream of some kind and run the risk of Nintendo throwing a hissy fit and losing the game at MLG forever).
I understand your point on this, AZ, but I can understand in this situation, too, how you want MLG to look like the good guy on this one.

However, I feel like MLG is sort of leaving some valid information out concerning this situation. As far as we know, Nintendo won't give permission. That's all MLG talks about concerning it.

Has anyone stopped to think...why? Why exactly would Nintendo not give the rights to the stream? There has to be a reason. A business does not avoid giving permission just to be, quote/unquote, an *******.

It would make sense, which is the conclusion I've come to, that Nintendo wants money from MLG using its product for media, as a stream of the game would be, in a sense, a media portrayal of their product.

So, it seems like it is likely that MLG refuses to pay for the rights to the stream. Which, of course, makes sense, since MLG barely makes a profit at its events and shelling out even more money just for a stream would be ludicrous.

Maybe MLG...is doing something wrong here?
 

-Ran

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Before you talk about professionalism you should probably attend an event. 250 person tournament finished before 10:30PM on Saturday.
I fully intend on going to MLG Dallas; however if they are going to attempt to provide us streams of information they can certainly make a better effort than the current one. I don't see how how they could get in trouble with Nintendo if they are simply broadcasting audio of the event, not the matches. Is Nintendo suddenly the NFL and demanding that all 'accounts and description' must have express written consent? If they are, then they have no concept of freedom of speech. It is well within the rights of MLG to have an audio stream of their own event, that would provide us with information of who is winning, and the general atmosphere.

If they want to hype up MLG to get even MORE people, then there is work to be done. Halo gets analysts, why can't we get a mic that's hooked up to a internet feed?

If MLG hasn't managed to fix this by the time I go to Dallas, I'll be running a Qik feed for everyone when I'm not playing.
 

etecoon

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Before you talk about professionalism you should probably attend an event. 250 person tournament finished before 10:30PM on Saturday.
Krystedez, wario from IL who beat DEHF in winners got DQ and sent to losers because they had told him his next match was at a certain time, but they had started to call the matches earlier, like 30 minutes earlier. He was DQ'd for not showing up, even though he got there before the time they had told him.
efficient doesn't necessarily mean professional
 

Kaila

MLG That Bracket Girl that makes cookies <font col
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@Ran_iji: Technically they can sue over any broadcasting which would be covered under the copyright, which is as follows:
A copyright is an exclusive right granted to an author of a literary, musical, audiovisual or artistic work, giving the author the sole right to reproduce and distribute that work. There are several different types of copyrights which are associated with Nintendo's products. These include various copyrights in Nintendo's software source code, executable code, game visual display, game music, game characters, product packaging, game manuals and labels; hardware chip microcode; artwork and publications.
That is more specific to game creation and distribution, but is also applicable to game footage/sound redistribution.

There are many players who take it upon themselves at events to tweet the updates ( http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=71705 ). It was the featured blog on AiB throughout the tournament. If there were any specific players you wanted information on, you could tweet them or myself for specific bracket information. There may be other arrangements in the future.


Ignoring my two cents, your complaints (specifically to event coverage) could have been easily solved by using your internet resources. This MLG article specifically addresses your complaints: http://www.mlgpro.com/content/news/304515/League-Speak-with-Sundance-Super-Smash-Bros-Brawl-Stream They outline their plans for coverage they hope to perfect over the flagship season.
 

-Ran

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

Fair use is a doctrine in United States copyright law that allows limited use of copyrighted material without requiring permission from the rights holders, such as for commentary, criticism, news reporting, research, teaching or scholarship.

I was aware of the twitter streams, but if MLG is going to provide us with this level of service, then they can go the extra two feet and make it better for everyone. Furthermore, I'm completely aware of them not being able to do video streams. They claim they are incapable of getting the rights to do so, which is fine, but that doesn't prevent an audio feed of the event.
 

Kaila

MLG That Bracket Girl that makes cookies <font col
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So you can google now, huh? It allows limited use, and proceeding with even just audio casting may be poking the bear with Nintendo and hinder getting video.

In my honest opinion, if you heard the commentary at the event, you wouldn't be rallying for it.
 

Xyless

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No, but if we got people who are good at commentating, it would be better. People like SamuraiPanda, for example.
 

-Ran

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No, I can provide links to people that don't understand Fair Use. I have copyright discussions with my friend that's a laywer every so often. This is certainly something that would fall under Fair Use. In fact, the common theme for a business in this venture would be to use the stream until Nintendo demands that they don't use it. At that point, you pose that it's Fair Use, and if that legal hurdle doesn't slow them down, you can remove the feeds.

Regardless, there is no reason we can't have audio commentary. MLG could easily ask for someone in the Smash community to man the station for free.
 

etecoon

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They claim they are incapable of getting the rights to do so, which is fine, but that doesn't prevent an audio feed of the event.
no, if you happen to hear a tornado in the background, you are STEALING from nintendo

lmfao US copyright law, most ******** **** ever
 

Pierce7d

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Eh, I'll say just a few things.

First off, besides my personal vulgar methods of refereeing (which you all love, so don't give me your ****) we ran that **** professional as hell.

Secondly, I talked with some of the higher ups with MLG, and they gave me a VERY GOOD response to why they haven't done an audio stream. Considering I was the first person to suggest this, and would probably be the one selected to perform on the stream, I would hope many of you take it to heart when I say, MLG very much seems to have your best interests at heart. They are thinking in the long term, and they hear you and are NOT ignoring you.

I can also say it's reasonably possible to see an audio stream in the future if Live Stream rights are not granted.

I'm not going into any details, because I'll let an MLG rep do that. I just want you to know that despite all this bashing due to you all jumping to conclusions, etc, MLG is still looking out for you. It doesn't have anything to do with MLG being cheap, because I heavily suspect Sundance would pay for that **** out of pocket if it came to that.
 
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