Heavyarms2050
Smash Ace
i believe the reason being is that the only character that i know that can use the friction is C.Falcon
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COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda
- Thread starter kupo15
- Start date
kupo15
Smash Hero
Character Specific Friction, kupo. Posted over a month ago.
(Others will be unable to view the link - it goes to the Workshop Back Room.)
(Others will be unable to view the link - it goes to the Workshop Back Room.)
Dude, just post it here. At least so it can be archived and used by anyone that wishes to implement it in their codesets.
kupo15
Smash Hero
umm, I only see two posts and no code or way to actually do it. Unless this is so I can bump it
Ah. Right. I forgot about it.
I assume this resets buffer to 10 frames when online?
Teronist09
Smash Journeyman
It turns ignore handicap on for online matches so now you can use the handicap buffer code online.
jmlee337
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- May 8, 2008
- Messages
- 303
- Slippi.gg
- LEE#337
I'll give it a guess
Does this code disable the built in 6 frame delay/lag when playing on WiFi?
I don't know what you mean ^.^.GHNEKO said:
olsonpm
Smash Cadet
Ok. I've been in love with this project for a while now, but 4.0 was just too amazing for me not to say anything. Thanks guys for putting this together.
Not Brawl+ related, go to Support Thread ^.
Anyways, I really think we should look back into implementing JC grabs into this game again.
Despite the johns from people saying "We're making it like Melee" because, truthfully it is entirely from Melee, it was the most efficient and best way to do a standing grab while dashing in all three games.
If we look at what we have now for grabbing while dashing, we have: dash grab, dash-canceled grab, and shield grabs. I'll go into the problems of each.
1) Dash Grabs- Well, in general these are just a lot laggier than standing grabs and very rarely warrant any use over them in the middle of combat over a technique to do a standing grab in a dash. There are exceptions of course, such as Sheik's Melee dash grab, but in general, these aren't the best idea.
2) DC Grabs- I don't know much to say about this except that they simply feel...awkward. Compared to JC grabs, they're slower, and the button sequence doesn't feel natural to me. JC grabs could top these in every way, as we could still get the sliding standing grab but with an easier, more efficient method.
3) Shield Grabs- These are exactly like Melee again. Slow and they stop you on the spot. Although you may want this on a rare occasion where a super accurate grab is necessary, this is not a good idea for canceling a dash grab.
JC grabs also wouldn't be too difficult to implement, yet would have nothing but positive effects on every character's metagame while simultaneously adding depth.
Anyways, I really think we should look back into implementing JC grabs into this game again.
Despite the johns from people saying "We're making it like Melee" because, truthfully it is entirely from Melee, it was the most efficient and best way to do a standing grab while dashing in all three games.
If we look at what we have now for grabbing while dashing, we have: dash grab, dash-canceled grab, and shield grabs. I'll go into the problems of each.
1) Dash Grabs- Well, in general these are just a lot laggier than standing grabs and very rarely warrant any use over them in the middle of combat over a technique to do a standing grab in a dash. There are exceptions of course, such as Sheik's Melee dash grab, but in general, these aren't the best idea.
2) DC Grabs- I don't know much to say about this except that they simply feel...awkward. Compared to JC grabs, they're slower, and the button sequence doesn't feel natural to me. JC grabs could top these in every way, as we could still get the sliding standing grab but with an easier, more efficient method.
3) Shield Grabs- These are exactly like Melee again. Slow and they stop you on the spot. Although you may want this on a rare occasion where a super accurate grab is necessary, this is not a good idea for canceling a dash grab.
JC grabs also wouldn't be too difficult to implement, yet would have nothing but positive effects on every character's metagame while simultaneously adding depth.
kupo15
Smash Hero
I agree that adding JC grabs would be an excellent addition to the game. Something that takes a little skill and practice to do in order to get less punishable grabs.
CyberGlitch
Smash Journeyman
My instinct is to say no to JC grabs, it's just another complexity that shieldgrabbing already substitutes for, for the most part. Perhaps certain tether grabs would gain a large enough benefit from it for it to be useful.
leafgreen386
Dirty camper
I have no problem with introducing JC grabs to the game. Although it's unnecessary, quite frankly, so are a lot of things in this project, and adding a different way to get a standing grab out of a dash wouldn't hurt anyone. The code shouldn't be a top priority, though. We need several other codes first before we should be getting something like JC grabs (ie. stale damage).
Not trying to be Anti-JC Grabs, but dont you think including that would be stigmata?
As storm92 said, there is that whole "Making it like Melee" feel behind it and it can hurt the image of B+.
And I restate, I'm not anti-JC, nor am I pro. I'm just putting it out there.
As storm92 said, there is that whole "Making it like Melee" feel behind it and it can hurt the image of B+.
And I restate, I'm not anti-JC, nor am I pro. I'm just putting it out there.
Err...There are other methods of grabbing?
Shell
Flute-Fox Only
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2007
- Messages
- 2,042
I'm not really sure what you're saying, but just to elaborate on my point, take a character like Falcon.
Falcon has a huge initial dash, and during this time he cannot dash-cancel a grab. He can shield in the initial dash thanks to the recent code, but this not only takes 9 frames but halts your movement. Jump canceling would solve these issues and allow for more options among characters with large initial dash animations.
Or, maybe we could do a code that detects if your in the process of raising your shield and allows you to grab, skipping the shield section, replacing the function of jump canceling.
Falcon has a huge initial dash, and during this time he cannot dash-cancel a grab. He can shield in the initial dash thanks to the recent code, but this not only takes 9 frames but halts your movement. Jump canceling would solve these issues and allow for more options among characters with large initial dash animations.
Or, maybe we could do a code that detects if your in the process of raising your shield and allows you to grab, skipping the shield section, replacing the function of jump canceling.
StarshipGroove
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2007
- Messages
- 488
In my opinion, JC grab is to all grabs as Brawl wavedashing is to all forms of movement. Why use any form of grab other than JC grab?
olsonpm
Smash Cadet
The difference being the amount of time to perfect. JC grabs takes maybe 1/1000th the amount of time to get reasonably consistent. The reason people didn't want wave dashing is b/c it scares anybody who doesn't want to put the time in - away from playing the game. The same goes for L-canceling.
L-canceling is superficial and adds nothing to the game except divide it between the people who always presses shield after an [unfinished] aerial to those who don't. It does not add depth.
Wavedashing is due to possibly alienating a lot of possible players (Brawl players mostly), and last I heard, could destroy the closest thing to balance in B+. Characters in Brawl are based on controlling space by using walls of aerials and such (more so than Melee), and of course wavedashing can easily get you through a wall while maintaining good control of your options (10 frames of lag while moving about your opponent maintaining all the options you have while standing). Basically the pains of adding it would not be worth it. How it worked as well as it did in Melee is a fluke (although we could say that sexy fighter was the greatest fluke ever anyway but I digress).
JC grabs are not exactly difficult in Melee. It's the easiest AT by far to master next to L-canceling. I would probably like it to be back, of course that makes shieldgrab out of DD basically useless now except for key situations since JC would keep momentum and therefore further boost the standing grab range.
But of course it shouldn't be top priority, nor is it really needed. However, if there is demand than chances are someone will fulfill that demand.
Wavedashing is due to possibly alienating a lot of possible players (Brawl players mostly), and last I heard, could destroy the closest thing to balance in B+. Characters in Brawl are based on controlling space by using walls of aerials and such (more so than Melee), and of course wavedashing can easily get you through a wall while maintaining good control of your options (10 frames of lag while moving about your opponent maintaining all the options you have while standing). Basically the pains of adding it would not be worth it. How it worked as well as it did in Melee is a fluke (although we could say that sexy fighter was the greatest fluke ever anyway but I digress).
JC grabs are not exactly difficult in Melee. It's the easiest AT by far to master next to L-canceling. I would probably like it to be back, of course that makes shieldgrab out of DD basically useless now except for key situations since JC would keep momentum and therefore further boost the standing grab range.
But of course it shouldn't be top priority, nor is it really needed. However, if there is demand than chances are someone will fulfill that demand.
MK26
Smash Master
or, you can get around the huge dash animation by not dashing and just walk forward and grab
Eaode
Smash Champion
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
Do you have any idea just how slow walking is? There are so many instances where walking forward is just too slow to capitalize on someone's mistake.
Maybe dash-grab end-lag should be lessened slightly to help remedy the risk-reward factor (Dash grabs have much better range than standing grabs, but the ending lag generally makes it a bad option in case they spotdodge.)
EDIT: So not all dash grabs have better range, but generally, dash grabs suck.
EDIT: So not all dash grabs have better range, but generally, dash grabs suck.
Well that's the whole thing with dash grabs Greenpoe, some chars (oh hi Samus) can use their dash grabs for extended range, but others completely suck.
I'm not arguing for JC grabs to replace any other method, but simply to add another option; shield grabs will still offer that very...."tight"... feel where the grab occurs basically right where you input it, while JC grabs allow for a little sliding beforehand (what shield grabs did before in vB).
Not necessary I agree, but I think it would be beneficial to the offensive grab game.
Edit:
Comparatively to the other two Smash games, we're missing a viable offensive grabbing technique.
Melee had JC grabs (offense), shield grabs (defense), dash grabs (rarely the best option), and standing grabs (didn't happen to much).
64 had two types of standing grabs: one interrupting a dash (offense), shield grabs (defense, which is lulz in 64), and standing (again, wasn't used all too much).
We're missing a good offensive tech for offensive grabs in this game.
I'm not arguing for JC grabs to replace any other method, but simply to add another option; shield grabs will still offer that very...."tight"... feel where the grab occurs basically right where you input it, while JC grabs allow for a little sliding beforehand (what shield grabs did before in vB).
Not necessary I agree, but I think it would be beneficial to the offensive grab game.
Edit:
Comparatively to the other two Smash games, we're missing a viable offensive grabbing technique.
Melee had JC grabs (offense), shield grabs (defense), dash grabs (rarely the best option), and standing grabs (didn't happen to much).
64 had two types of standing grabs: one interrupting a dash (offense), shield grabs (defense, which is lulz in 64), and standing (again, wasn't used all too much).
We're missing a good offensive tech for offensive grabs in this game.
Jiangjunizzy
Smash Lord
ghneko, he's partially right. wavedashing would've been a huge turn off for many players.
goodoldganon
Smash Champion
I agree with this.
the_judge
Smash Journeyman
Is there a code that lets you edit opening spawn points?
TommyDerMeister
Smash Lord
Well wavedashing didn't even completely work like it did in Melee. You couldn't edgehog with it, and the timing was, well to me at least, weird.
The problems with wavedashing were the following:
- IIRC, there were only 2 frames of landing lag after a wavedash, which meant your timing had to be exceptional; otherwise, you'd end up shielding right after landing. Since Melee had 10 frames of landing lag, this was not a problem. Plus, the lack of landing lag meant you could stack wavedashes, allowing for fast movement.
- Most characters are slippery as hell. Unlike Melee, the friction for each character is very homogenized across the board, meaning wavedashing was the best form of movement for almost all characters.
- You can't slip from a platform, unless you're pushed while shielding.
The only way to make wavedashing anything like Melee, then, would've been to use a character-specific friction modifier (which does exist), increase the landing lag from an AD, and make platforms let you slip from them.