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COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

grim mouser

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 15, 2009
Messages
464
Location
Michigan
No AD in tumble [spunit262, Phantom Wings]

C277F188 00000004
5400D97F 41820018
80810010 2C040021
40A2000C 809E0034
2C040049 00000000
C277F2B0 00000004
5400D97F 41820018
80810010 2C040021
40A2000C 809E0034
2C040049 00000000
I haven't tried it yet, but I think Kupo did.
 

shanus

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 17, 2005
Messages
6,055
Considering how I made specific references to Sketch's posts and even asked spunit for modifiable code a la Frame Mod, shanus, I don't see how you came up with that conclusion regarding my stance on FF Moves. I use "FF Moves" instead of FF Specials because Zairs aren't specials.

EDIT: See? Look at Tatsuman's idea.

If we could apply FF anytime to Yoshi, Lucas, and Ness's DJ only, then we could have a form of DJC without losing the rising aerials that are such an important part of the Yoshi game in Brawl. And the DJ isn't a special so, once again, FF Moves.

It's ideas like that that we shouldn't just ignore because we have a fear of what is new.

We fix the code. We test things out. We see what works. That was my stance from the very beginning, shanus, and my previous post made that quite clear.

Please don't overlook the fact that, in a previous post to kupo, I already mentioned that FF'ing before apex is not at all something I support. With the only obvious exception now being the DJ FF, since it's not a DJC if you have to wait for the apex of the DJ to FF it for the cancel...
Alright sorry, I read your post too quickly. I'm glad you feel the same about no FF before apex. I was very hesitant about the code as I don't want there to be some disconnect between both veteran smash players and the new brawlers with some weird technique for lots of characters. If the code can be fixed according to the method proposed, it sounds pretty cool.
 

kupo15

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
7,002
Location
Playing Melee
We have the chance to really make things unique in Brawl+ with this, and I am vehemently opposed to the idea of discarding Sketch's notion simply because it "wasn't in Smash before". We can move this game forward. We don't have to always be looking back. All we need to do is test things.

EDIT:
P.S. kupo,
I saw your video showcasing the camera mod, and just gotta say that the Brawl+ camera you had on really had me feeling woozy. It was just too... bouncy... for me. It moved back and forth too much and I just couldn't follow it without getting a headache... so yeah, whatever setting you were using there definitely seemed "too dynamic".
Yes I realize that. But I feel we need to test everything that worked before before we can move forward. We can't move forward until the basics of this game is solid and that is why going back to what worked as a starting point is a good idea.

I already acknowledge the fact that the camera on 2x was too much. I actually deleted it and will post a lesser setting like 1.75x. Its not that bad at all and you don't outrun the camera. I do want to be able to change the "looking forward" setting but can't find it
I was looking in the WIIrd Codes thread and saw this:



Has this been tested?
Yes and its great although others don't think so. It helps edge guarding a little, doesn't bring back stalls, and it makes recovering easier when you make it on the ledge yet people are against it. I have it set to gaining half of what we lost.
 

GPDP

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
927
Just tested the No AD During Tumble, Tech Fix, and Shield During DD codes all at once. They all work quite well. Teching is definitely somewhat easier now, and I never buffer an AD out of hitstun anymore. I highly suggest using these codes (until we get a proper tech code IMO).
 

GPDP

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
927
I don't like being able to buffer an AD in tumble.
You don't, not as far as I can tell. But maybe I'll need to test further.

Edit: Yeah, no matter how much I tried, I can't buffer an AD during the tumble. The only way to get out of the tumble is by jumping, attacking, or moving the control stick left and right, which means you can't really buffer an AD.

These are the codes I'm using, btw.

Buffer Mod + tech fix V3 [Phantom Wings, spunit262]
C285B784 00000006
38600002 8087007C
80840034 2C040049
40A20008 3860000A
809F015C 7C041800
4182000C 3880FFFF
909F0150 00000000

FF during tumble [spunit262, Phantom Wings]
C27651bc 0000000a
887e007c 2c030000
40a20040 809e0014
54846cfe 2c0417e5
41a00030 80810064
80a4007c 80a50034
2c050049 40a2001c
80840070 80840024
8084001c 80a40000
60a50004 90a40000
60000000 00000000

No AD in tumble [spunit262, Phantom Wings]
C277F188 00000004
5400D97F 41820018
80810010 2C040021
40A2000C 809E0034
2C040049 00000000
C277F2B0 00000004
5400D97F 41820018
80810010 2C040021
40A2000C 809E0034
2C040049 00000000
 

storm92

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
844
Location
SoCal
Seconding what GPDP said.
These codes work very well.
Even though I had to drop the Default Settings to fit them in the codeset. :(
 

GPDP

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
927
What exactly is Magus canceling supposed to be?
It was an old idea proposed during the days of S-canceling, which offered to let you fully cancel all aerial lag by pressing Shield, but with a heavy toll on your shield (something like 1/3 of your shield). I think such an idea could still be interesting to try out. The toll on the shield means that you wouldn't be able to spam the Magus Cancel more than 3 times, else your shield would break and you'd be left vulnerable.
 

kupo15

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
7,002
Location
Playing Melee
I was able to AD in tumble. Maybe try holding a direction in hitstun then spamming AD? Its temperamental but I know I'm not going crazy
 

GPDP

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
927
Agh, looks like you're right, kupo. You don't buffer it during tumble, though, but during hitstun.

Still, it's nowhere near as troublesome as it used to be prior to the latest codes. I'm not having many problems at all, certainly not to the extent that I documented earlier.
 

Alopex

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
909
Yes I realize that. But I feel we need to test everything that worked before before we can move forward. We can't move forward until the basics of this game is solid and that is why going back to what worked as a starting point is a good idea.
I think we're pretty solid these days. I mean, at most we're just fine tuning things like AD tumble and momentum values. Our foundation, our framework, is pretty well established. I think we're definitely at a point where we can start experimenting with newer things.

I already acknowledge the fact that the camera on 2x was too much. I actually deleted it and will post a lesser setting like 1.75x. Its not that bad at all and you don't outrun the camera. I do want to be able to change the "looking forward" setting but can't find it
Cool. Looking forward to it. I was wondering though one big issue I have with the Brawl camera is the limited field of vision when off stage. I dunno, I just don't like how when you're having OoS dogfights, the camera doesn't let you see anything else but your opponent and the background. I dunno if anything can be done about that, but I'd like a little less zoom in in that situation.
 

kupo15

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
7,002
Location
Playing Melee
Cool. Looking forward to it. I was wondering though one big issue I have with the Brawl camera is the limited field of vision when off stage. I dunno, I just don't like how when you're having OoS dogfights, the camera doesn't let you see anything else but your opponent and the background. I dunno if anything can be done about that, but I'd like a little less zoom in in that situation.
Well as you saw in my first cam comparison vid, if both players are facing away from each other, it really zooms out. This should all be self corrected once we figure out the pan settings when players look in a certain direction
 

grim mouser

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 15, 2009
Messages
464
Location
Michigan
The one you posted worked well in my testing. It didn't move all over the place, and it was certainly better dynamically than the default.
 

kupo15

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
7,002
Location
Playing Melee
The one you posted worked well in my testing. It didn't move all over the place, and it was certainly better dynamically than the default.
yay. That's good to hear. I love this camera now even though it can still be improved. I think I can shave some lines off of the features we don't need
 

Almas

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
1,588
Magus Cancelling was the idea of pressing Shield during or immediately before landing in order to remove landing lag. As a penalty for performing this, a significant portion of your shield would be taken away. The idea is that the technique would balance offense/defense duality, whilst also improving the game for slower characters.

While the idea is still very nice and may be worth considering, at the moment it is not discussed as it seems it will be line consuming, which is very much something we're not keen on at this point in time due to the (now extremely significant) delays with Gecko 2.0.
 

abcool

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 6, 2007
Messages
871
Location
The Bahamas
I wanna make a complaint about the save names in replays, idk if it is the 1 liner or not, but my matches freeze when i try to play matches record ONLINE. can someone confirm this? Oh yea another thing with these new codes i get a freeze from time to time can someone else confirm. i only turned off meta's flimsy armour
 

Finns7

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 1, 2008
Messages
896
How does the AD tumble code effect hitstun, I think hitstun is fine without, does this change it?
 

abcool

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 6, 2007
Messages
871
Location
The Bahamas
Kupo, man at first i told you i can wait, but i fought a broken *** meta online and i need to space my lasers, momentum making things worst, Can someone look into that?
 

SketchHurricane

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
669
Location
Winter Park, FL
Magus cancel seems novel enough to try, but it's really one of those low priority things at this point, like Almas said. As it stands, the shield still is in no danger whatsoever to be broken, so I'm all for codes that could utilize the shield. Hell, I still support damage mod for the shield.
 

trojanpooh

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
1,183
Too bad we're so low on space, I think Magus Cancel could be really cool. Just to clarify, its basically ALR with the option to S-Cancel for a cost, right?
 

Mobbin

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 17, 2007
Messages
119
I have an idea for a new code... but I think it's kinda stupid xD
How about a technique where you press Shield a few frames before you hit someone while you're still in hitstun and your knockback will be transmitted to the enemy?
Like, when you are hit by player 2 and fly towards player 3, you hit R in the right moment and send player 3 flying while losing all your knockback (and thus, survive)...
I hope you know what I mean... I know this probably won't be in due to lack of space and because it's not really needed... but I think it could be funny. Imagine Snake blowing himself up and using this technique to kill an enemy... very risky but flashy as hell xD
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I have an idea for a new code... but I think it's kinda stupid xD
How about a technique where you press Shield a few frames before you hit someone while you're still in hitstun and your knockback will be transmitted to the enemy?
Like, when you are hit by player 2 and fly towards player 3, you hit R in the right moment and send player 3 flying while losing all your knockback (and thus, survive)...
I hope you know what I mean... I know this probably won't be in due to lack of space and because it's not really needed... but I think it could be funny. Imagine Snake blowing himself up and using this technique to kill an enemy... very risky but flashy as hell xD
Nice, kind of like an offensive tech, and probably hard to pull off.
 

Finns7

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 1, 2008
Messages
896
Have you guys played with the GSC by phantom wings...It would be awesome if you could cancel you aireals at the expense of shield or knockback or w/e. Not the best idea but that **** is fun.
 

SketchHurricane

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
669
Location
Winter Park, FL
How about a technique where you press Shield a few frames before you hit someone while you're still in hitstun and your knockback will be transmitted to the enemy?
Honestly it kinda sounded ******** when I first read it, but on second thought, it's basically a wall tech, but off of another player instead. I only see it being useful in doubles though, and even then you might kill your partner by accident. I would make the knockback transfer 1/2 or even 1/4 to basically make it a "body" tech to save your *** in a doubles match.

Anyway, it sounds cool, but would probably take a lot of lines and, as you mentioned, is not a priority. Codes like this are the type of thing we can mess around with after an official release is already out and we really have nothing to code for a while. Of course, that's completely up to the coders...
 

TheStig

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
1,260
Location
Gotham City
could somebody help me with the default settings modifier? i just want to adjust it for tournament settings.
 

leafgreen386

Dirty camper
Joined
Mar 20, 2006
Messages
3,577
Location
Playing melee and smash ultimate
The default settings mod should already be set up to be on 4 stock with an 8 minute time limit, and team attack on, which is what most people are currently using for brawl+.

As for mobbin's idea... actually, the game already transfers some of your knockback into the person you hit, causing you to slow down some, so the game obviously can register the collision. It actually probably wouldn't be too bad on lines if it was included. The problem is, this mechanic already screws up lots of what would otherwise be legit kills, causing you to hit your opponent into your partner with an fsmash or whatever, putting them both offstage, while the character you hit is still alive. With the mechanic you're talking about adding, this would go from a bad situation to a terrible situation, where not only does the opponent not die, but they don't go anywhere at all, while not only is your partner off the stage, but they're flat out killed. I don't like the idea much at all, as it really just serves to add more randomness to doubles matches.

Now, what I could see is allowing a tech off of a player, while completely negating the transfer of knockback to the other player, so if the above situation did happen, then the hit player would have to choose between taking both themselves and your partner off the stage and the alternative of putting both themselves and your partner in close proximity to each other, with your partner having a very large frame advantage, meaning they'll be likely to get hit again. I think it's unnecessary, though.
 

Mobbin

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 17, 2007
Messages
119
Maybe we could take out the normal collision and only use this technique. So it would actually require skill to survive using the collision. Then again, if your teammate smashes your opponent into you, it's basically his fault and the opponent can use the tech to punish :p
 

spunit262

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 15, 2008
Messages
421
No AD in tumble V3 [spunit262, Phantom Wings]
C2781310 00000006
80980000 2C040021
40A20020 8097007C
80840034 2C040042
41A00010 2C040049
41A10008 38600000
39610040 00000000
 

Rikana

Smash Champion
Joined
May 16, 2006
Messages
2,125
Kupo I think you should add Nuke too for creating gecko OS
I don't know if that's a good idea. Nuke got mad before for being credited for the wrong reason (pirating programs I think it was.. I don't really remember). I don't know what he would think of this one.
 

spunit262

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 15, 2008
Messages
421
I don't know if that's a good idea. Nuke got mad before for being credited for the wrong reason (pirating programs I think it was.. I don't really remember). I don't know what he would think of this one.
No, Nuke got piss because of the way they did it made sound like he was a directly involved in the making of the backup launcher, instead of just being based on his code,
 

Almas

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
1,588
Nuke's issues are to do with piracy (and being associated with people who support it) - I don't see why he would be offended by being creditted for creating the program that allows B+ to function.

Spunit, I'm having a couple issues porting over the animation speed code. It's stable, but animations which are affected end up performing at a ridiculously rapid rate (e.g. aerial attacks have no visible lag). I haven't looked at it in action yet (e.g. with my Gecko loaded up), but I was wondering if you experienced something like it when you wrote the code, as it'd give me some insight as to where I've gone wrong. It's probably something to do with PAL's memory being arranged funny.
 
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