COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[the_judge]

could be a problem o_O

It only works for bair properly, since fair's slashes come out twice as fast it isn't practical.

But you could literally SHFF fair (all 3 slashes), dash, turn around SHFF bair somewhat easily (assuming the enemy is at 0%)

Trust me, MK retains his brokenness in B+. Though alot of chars can play him on equal footing (especially Marth, whom I say counterpicks MK)

 

[zxeon]

It only works for bair properly, since fair's slashes come out twice as fast it isn't practical.

But you could literally SHFF fair (all 3 slashes), dash, turn around SHFF bair somewhat easily (assuming the enemy is at 0%)

Trust me, MK retains his brokenness in B+. Though alot of chars can play him on equal footing (especially Marth, whom I say counterpicks MK)

I knew about that It shouldn't be a problem since you can SDI it. Besides we'll be nerfing Metaknight regardless.

It's still frightening too see how far the rabbit hole goes. Left unchecked metaknight would rule this game with a mach speed sword.

 

[the_judge]

I knew about that It shouldn't be a problem since you can SDI it. Besides we'll be nerfing Metaknight regardless.

It's still frightening too see how far the rabbit hole goes. Left unchecked metaknight would rule this game with a mach speed sword.

I personally say a nerf isn't required, plenty of chars actually have a chance against him especially if they can combo him. He somewhat lost his perfect recovery since hitstun has him dying at lower %'s from power attacks.
Any char that can outreach him can beat him with proper spacing.

Like Marth, he has alot of his keep away game back and plenty of combos that work on MK. My friend has me in check almost the whole match until I use tornado (which is probably the most broken part about him now)
He just has more combos now and a scarier approach, I doubt that he needs a nerfing, though I'm sure he still claim's God Tier.

 

[MuBa]

Chalk up another MuBa convert...well, almost. I took FF down to 1.2 and took off the jump/throw codes. I'm not even sure what the jump code does. But I like the rest. I only toned down the FF slightly because I think with 1.35 you fastfall fast enough already o_O. Other than that I really like it. With my CSS and Shields I'm only at about 170. Total awesomeness.

Haha glad you liked most of my set.

Also the jump code enables you to take up less time for your jump to reach your apex height, or in other words, it makes your jumps faster. Very ideal for getting combos in.

 

[Archangel]

So I was wondering....is It possible that with the movement hacking and Shield Hacking you could hack the Dodge? Reason being I was playing Vanilla brawl with MK (For the Lulz) I noticed it's nearly impossible to hit MK when he's dodging. either on the ground or in the air unless he decides to engage or you have a long lasting attack. Is it possible to either speed up the dodge, Make the actual dodge last slightly longer, or Both? It's kinda a half *** Idea that just kinda came together and might end up doing harm but on the bright side. If the rolling animation was fast enough to satisfy spacers (that can't space mentally with their characters) then perhaps it could serve as a substitute WD. I Imagine that would be pretty cool! However things don't always turn out the way we've envisioned them so far. Luckily most of them have.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Haha glad you liked most of my set.

Also the jump code enables you to take up less time for your jump to reach your apex height, or in other words, it makes your jumps faster. Very ideal for getting combos in.

Wait a minute....The jump code just makes you leave the ground faster (reduces the amount of frames it actually takes to initiate your jump). To increase the speed you need a combination of up grav and SH/FH power.

BTW@ Kupo, you don't need to change your codeset just for codeset just for Mario. And...I never knew Mario could make it back from that in melee. Mario couldn't even make it back from ledgehop fairs in melee. The fair's lag was that bad.

 

[Sanu]

I ended up combining MuBa's with Kupo's older one and it was pretty interesting XD; I dunno if it's perfect. To be honest, nothing is perfect. I'll be at a smashfest tonight and if it does well, I'll let you guys know what I changed up.

I like MuBa's for the less aerial landing lag ( I think it's less? Or am I just crazy?) and faster speeds, but the gravity makes it much harder to hit with a lot of combos so I decreased it etc. Increased grab speed opens up for a lot more combos and using Kupo's hitstun much more is possible. His fastfall height is kinda short, but it also seems like more things connect with the lower ff height.

Question for MuBa: What is the code in your codeset that decreases the stun or whatever when moves like the sweetspotted knee connect? I liked it when the knee and stuff like that had more of an impact ;p

 

[shanus]

I ended up combining MuBa's with Kupo's older one and it was pretty interesting XD; I dunno if it's perfect. To be honest, nothing is perfect. I'll be at a smashfest tonight and if it does well, I'll let you guys know what I changed up.

I like MuBa's for the less aerial landing lag ( I think it's less? Or am I just crazy?) and faster speeds, but the gravity makes it much harder to hit with a lot of combos so I decreased it etc. Increased grab speed opens up for a lot more combos and using Kupo's hitstun much more is possible. His fastfall height is kinda short, but it also seems like more things connect with the lower ff height.

Question for MuBa: What is the code in your codeset that decreases the stun or whatever when moves like the sweetspotted knee connect? I liked it when the knee and stuff like that had more of an impact ;p

Thats the hitlag modifier, it does more than you think though. While reducing fake hitlag as well, it removes the hitlag from most moves heightening the speed of the gameplay, while also reducing the amount of time allowed for the user to input SDI/DI to make DI'ing a bit more difficult.

 

[Shell]

Chalk up another MuBa convert...well, almost. I took FF down to 1.2 and took off the jump/throw codes. I'm not even sure what the jump code does. But I like the rest. I only toned down the FF slightly because I think with 1.35 you fastfall fast enough already o_O. Other than that I really like it. With my CSS and Shields I'm only at about 170. Total awesomeness.

Wow, I thought you were previously pretty conservative with your codes. Looks like I have no choice now but to give MuBa's some lovin'.

 

[Yeroc]

I was. I liked Brawl for what it was, as much as I could. But I play Fox in Melee. Speed's just too much fun. ^_^.

 

[Zilactic]

I was. I liked Brawl for what it was, as much as I could. But I play Fox in Melee. Speed's just too much fun. ^_^.

I agree with this statement 100%

 

[Shell]

Is PW still working on debugging the KB code he posted a while back? That'll be pretty key to many of the char-specific tweaks.

 

[kupo15]

Wait a minute....The jump code just makes you leave the ground faster (reduces the amount of frames it actually takes to initiate your jump). To increase the speed you need a combination of up grav and SH/FH power.

BTW@ Kupo, you don't need to change your codeset just for codeset just for Mario. And...I never knew Mario could make it back from that in melee. Mario couldn't even make it back from ledgehop fairs in melee. The fair's lag was that bad.

Hmmm, I'm not sure what to do then. I don't see THAT much of a FF difference with Falcon at 1.12. I should have tried Ike because I think it was way too much for him and some other characters but I'm not sure

Is PW still working on debugging the KB code he posted a while back? That'll be pretty key to many of the char-specific tweaks.

Not right now. I thought almas was thinking about doing that

 

[InterimOfZeal]

It's the same homogenization that speeding up throws would accomplish. It's perfectly fine for certain characters to be better at certain techniques. Diversity is a good thing. Gannon should not be able to tick throw (unless you wanted to give him a big buff). In fact, characters with rapid jabs have an extra mindgame layer to their tick throws when you think about it. Sure, they might have to wait just long enough for the tick throw to be avoided, but if you know they're expecting it, you can just delay rapid jab which will catch them for sure. If they expect the rapid jabs, you can go ahead with the throw.

As for speeding up the lag on the end of throws, wouldn't that possibly re-introduce some chaingrab gayness? We already have a few more chaingrabs in the cast due to hitstun.

Problem being that with how grabbing works in this game is that if you try to delay the rapid jabs to get them as they poke out, they'll absorb your hit and grab you instead, more often than not. Unless you space at the very end of the rapid jabs, in which case you throwing them is a non-issue.

Another issue is that (and this might change with different shield-stuns) if you go for the tick throw OR the rapid jabs, some characters can just shut down all your options by dropping their shield and attacking. Pretty lame to have that Brawl "feature" still present. I can understand it working for a few, but pretty much anyone a fast neutral A that has some semblance of priority can do it.

Maybe I'm just doing this wrong.

Btw, did anyone ever talk about whether or not to try and add a CC code? That was my single favourite feature in Melee. :D

 

[kupo15]

Btw, did anyone ever talk about whether or not to try and add a CC code? That was my single favourite feature in Melee. :D

I can't see this being implimented since it would have to be made from scratch. I absolutely hated that feature anyway. If I hit you, you SHOULD go flying

 

[Deleted member]

we are NOT remaking melee, and you have plenty of options instead of CC.

 

[Almas]

I'm thinking about it, but I've got other things to get through first.

 

[kupo15]

what do you have lined up after the release of the code?

 

[|RK|]

Why no tripping? What about no random tripping? Decay also makes the game a bit more realistic and you must strategize better. About characters, does anyone know any animators/modeling people? I think Roy should be easy enough, lol. But seriously, if I (or anyone else) can find someone who can do that, would you put in Roy?

 

[kupo15]

Why no tripping? What about no random tripping? Decay also makes the game a bit more realistic an dyou must strategize better.

Have you read the FAQ? That answers your tripping question

 

[Dark Sonic]

Decay also makes the game a bit more realistic and you must strategize better?

First, no it does not make it more realistic in any form of the imagination.

It's too intrusive as you have to keep a tally of 9 moves at seperate times and how many of any particular move are in the que, in addition to the position of your opponent, percentage of your opponent, possible DIs they will take, amount of knockback different moves will have at different ques, the corosponding hitstun that results from the lower launch speed, and all that other stuff.

It is unreasonable to expect them to memorize the damage and knockback that each of ther moves do from fully fresh to fully decayed, and be able to keep track of that in addition to all the other nuances of combos. It's more disruptive to combos than anything really, because of the fact that it stales knockback which is one of the most important aspects combo comboing.

/stale move debate.


Also, that's what the tripping code does. Moves that trip you still trip you, but you don't trip randomly whenever you start a dash anymore.

 

[GameSystem]

About characters, does anyone know any animators/modeling people? I think Roy should be easy enough, lol. But seriously, if I (or anyone else) can find someone who can do that, would you put in Roy?

http://stacksmash.cultnet.net/?p=3014

There is Roy. He has been in brawl for a whle.

 

[goodoldganon]

Ya I saw the Roy. How do you get skins into your games? After codes are settled upon I'll probably try and get some good skins.

 

[Iceman12]

Something still needs to be done with uthrows, they're still mostly useless. They either need more stun, or something so they don't throw people so high.

 

[GameSystem]

Ya I saw the Roy. How do you get skins into your games? After codes are settled upon I'll probably try and get some good skins.

Wait for Gecko 2.0. They are texture hacks, and soon we'll be able to load them from your SD card.

Something still needs to be done with uthrows, they're still mostly useless. They either need more stun, or something so they don't throw people so high.

You still have 3 other throws. Also, not everyone's u throws are bad. There were a lot of useless throws in melee too. People just didn't use them.

 

[|RK|]

Oh, okay. Sorry, I read like the first post since there's 410+ pages, lol. As for the Roy comment, this is all I have to say. ..........

But seriously, I'll look for someone good with texturing and 3D modeling. And since from Melee to Brawl, clones' Specials (at least one) changed (-Falco) , I'll find an animator too... Roy would be able to keep his N-Special's Slash, rather than stab, his Up+B.... maybe... and then the smashes..... I'll do some looking.

 

[GameSystem]

Oh, okay. Sorry, I read like the first post since there's 410+ pages, lol.

He meant this thread. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=213744

But seriously, I'll look for someone good with texturing and 3D modeling. And since from Melee to Brawl, clones' Specials (at least one) changed (-Falco) , I'll find an animator too... Roy would be able to keep his N-Special's Slash, rather than stab, his Up+B.... maybe... and then the smashes..... I'll do some looking.

You can't change character's attacks. The closest you can get is to make Marth into Roy and color his sword red.

 

[Sanu]

The only thing I'd like to do skin-wise is reskin Fox to his old design. I really hate the new one and his old one was much hotter ;P

T-2 hours until I spring Brawl+ on 15-20 players. I'm going to try and get a tourney going too, I'll record the vids as well. The first Brawl+ tourney ever recorded and on youtube? it's more likely than you think. Only difference between you guys is that I have MAD enabled. Sorry, but I just do whatever I find more enjoyable

 

[kupo15]

can we not talk about textures here? This isn't the thread for that.

 

[SketchHurricane]

Problem being that with how grabbing works in this game is that if you try to delay the rapid jabs to get them as they poke out, they'll absorb your hit and grab you instead, more often than not. Unless you space at the very end of the rapid jabs, in which case you throwing them is a non-issue.

I'm sure I've seen people get grabbed out of their rapid jabs, so I can't say you're wrong. But, I think it's more or less of a toss up because at times going for the grab fails and you have to SDI out of the jabs.

Another issue is that (and this might change with different shield-stuns) if you go for the tick throw OR the rapid jabs, some characters can just shut down all your options by dropping their shield and attacking. Pretty lame to have that Brawl "feature" still present. I can understand it working for a few, but pretty much anyone a fast neutral A that has some semblance of priority can do it.

I realize now that your speaking primarily of tick throwing a shielding opponent. I'm pretty sure your right about the shielder being at an advantage, but that might depend on the jab now that we have shield stun. I, however, was speaking primarily of actually landing jabs into throws, which I guess is more of an actual combo in this game as opposed to others since a lot of jabs pop you up a bit. That's what I meant when I said they were already good.

I still think having jabs cancel into throws might make jabbing a bit too good, though. A character like Luigi who can combo jab -> grab on hit could then be able to do that even on a shield if it canceled, meaning your basically screwed if he gets inside. A character like Bowser could probably even get an infinite grab release out of it, since he can already jab most characters after a release.

 

[Shell]

I just tried out MuBa's codeset. The speed makes me feel alive. I agree with Yeroc, though, that the fastfall could be closer to 1.20. Shorthops at .825 make shuffling extremely fluid, although I can't wait for the char-specific code since it kills Thunderstorming and Mario's double Uairs. Overall though, very fun.

 

[plasmatorture]

You can't change character's attacks. The closest you can get is to make Marth into Roy and color his sword red.

You can do more than that.

Change Marth into Roy via textures, make him heavier, make him slower, increase his damage, etc.
I wouldn't be surprised if there is a way to attach animations to attacks similarly to how you can make Ness have his bat out at all times, so it might be possible to give him back t3h fir3 as well.

 

[CyberGlitch]

Have you read the FAQ? That answers your tripping question

While his confusion could have been fixed in the faq, why not just clear up any confusion by changing the name of the code to "No Random Tripping" in the OP?

 

[kupo15]

I guess I''ll do that

 

[InterimOfZeal]

we are NOT remaking melee, and you have plenty of options instead of CC.

Hey, how's that huge smash scene in the Netherlands treatin' ya?

:D!

You are NOT contributing to this discussion in any way, shape, or form. We have our coders, we have our testers, and then we have you. GTFO.

I can't see this being implimented since it would have to be made from scratch. I absolutely hated that feature anyway. If I hit you, you SHOULD go flying

Oh, look! See this paprika? He's not being a douche! Learn from it, mangz.

It made sense to me, though. If you're planted firmly in the ground, you should be harder to budge. Plus, it made for some interesting tactics, partcularly against crap like Fox's dair. Plus, CCing MK's tornado would=You not being lifted, which means you could punish him for using it in stupid situations.

In theory, anyway.

I'm thinking about it, but I've got other things to get through first.

I would love you long time.

EDIT: Added stuff above the edit, lolololl

I'm sure I've seen people get grabbed out of their rapid jabs, so I can't say you're wrong. But, I think it's more or less of a toss up because at times going for the grab fails and you have to SDI out of the jabs.

It's true. All the same, jabs really shouldn't be so unsafe on hit, ya know?

I realize now that your speaking primarily of tick throwing a shielding opponent. I'm pretty sure your right about the shielder being at an advantage, but that might depend on the jab now that we have shield stun. I, however, was speaking primarily of actually landing jabs into throws, which I guess is more of an actual combo in this game as opposed to others since a lot of jabs pop you up a bit. That's what I meant when I said they were already good.

Yeah. When I say tick-throwing, I mean jabbing them, giving them like... 2-3 frames to get out, and then grabbing them because they guessed wrong. Pretty much just another mix-up.

It's more dependent on what shield stun we decide on, ultimately. I think that some moves should leave the attacker at disadvantage, whereas others should be neutral (jabs) or have slight advantage (better jabs). You can still side-step if you anticipate the grab, too.

I still think having jabs cancel into throws might make jabbing a bit too good, though. A character like Luigi who can combo jab -> grab on hit could then be able to do that even on a shield if it canceled, meaning your basically screwed if he gets inside. A character like Bowser could probably even get an infinite grab release out of it, since he can already jab most characters after a release.

I don't necessarily mean have them cancel into throws. Maybe make jab cancelling actually effective? Like... rather than remove 1 frame, make it so you can cancel the jab into smashes, tilts, grabs by pressing down, like it was with Melee. Yeah, I know we're not aiming for SSBM 2, but the game had some good things going for it.

I think we need to fix grab releases, or make a code that allows you to break grabs if you press Z within two frames of being grabbed. It would effectively hinder predictable CGs, and also allow for a way outta silly tick-throws. We could also put in CC if we're looking at the second option.

Luigi SHOULD be a character that, when he gets in, he can mess you up. There's a reason his traction is so terrible. It's because he should be on the offense almost all the time. Luigi's that ******* that everyone has to zone. They just don't realize it yet.

 

[Deleted member]

you my friend, are foolish. I am one of the hackers, and yes that means I have somethign to say about this project.

next time read before saying things about people

 

[Almas]

Haha, oh man. Owned.

No but seriously, I'm quite annoyed with people trying to tell me what to work on.

 

[Deleted member]

I know you've been very busy and also from own experience, I can only agree.

 

[Shell]

InterimOfZeal, you should respect your elders in the B+ project. Paprika's done a lot for us, certainly more than you or I have. If this were the Brawl+ forums you probably would've gotten reprimanded by a mod.

 

[kupo15]

Haha, oh man. Owned.

No but seriously, I'm quite annoyed with people trying to tell me what to work on.

I'm sorry Almas! I was only doing the job I started back in November and I don't mean to sound bossy! I won't request anymore from you since you are more exclusive to us than pw is! D: