COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

[storm92]

Will they support brawl+?

Hopefully eventually, yes.
I know there are several in the SBR that actively play B+ and enjoy it.

 

[cAm8ooo]

Hopefully eventually, yes.
I know there are several in the SBR that actively play B+ and enjoy it.

Several? I only know of a few. Hopefully their more into the project then i've seen.

 

[storm92]

Several? I only know of a few. Hopefully their more into the project then i've seen.

Several, few, same difference

 

[kupo15]

What should we do about this:

From the looks of things, it appears that there isn't actually a timer window like you originally thought there was, but rather, it detects how close you are to the ground when you input the shield command and sets up a flag that tells the character to ukemi when it hits the ground(if you're close enough to the ground)... But this is based on hypothesis because I haven't been able to get any results from simply pressing shield after being hit and there's too many changing variable to try any searches when you hit the ground.

It's possible that I could rig up an override code that sets up my own window and causes you to ukemi if my window is open when you hit the ground, but that may require a number of lines of code.

About increasing the rolling distance, that would require you to actually change the animation that the character goes through(some characters animations make them roll farther than other characters animations) and that wouldn't convert very easily into a modifier(it would also require you to change every characters animations - which is very code consuming)

I could make the speed of the animations work by simply using the "add frames for each frame" method.

 

[Almas]

That explains why jablocks work.

With the rolling distance... It may be possible to check if the character is in the rolling animation, and if they are, increase their velocity. I can't be certain though.

 

[Revven]

What should we do about this:

Sounds exactly like I thought it is. Just tell him to make his own window, and make the window AS SOON AS you hit the ground (or whatever), basically like in Melee and Smash 64's window. As long as that's the best solution to it, then, I would be happy.

 

[leafgreen386]

Hm... couldn't he just set up a modifier which changes the points at which it sets the flag from? So we could tech from up higher (and lower if that distance doesn't extend down to the ground)? It still confuses me how it could not use a timer, since how would the game know when to not make you tech if you've already pressed L/R in the activation window?

As for tech distance... meh. We didn't need to change it anyway.

Increasing tech speed... well, judging by his response on that one it'll be easy.

Also... yayyuz for launch speed mod. But that doesn't let us reduce launch speed, does it? We need to be able to reduce launch speed for some nerfs.

 

[cAm8ooo]

yaaah. Shiek ftilt fixed. And the the first nerf has been done

 

[Eaode]

Melee and 64 teching window was not right when you hit the ground. it was a good deal before that, leading up to when you hit the ground.

 

[Eaode]

wait so with this new KB modifier, how do the numbers work? are they like percentages to multiply the knockback? can someone explain?

 

[Revven]

Melee and 64 teching window was not right when you hit the ground. it was a good deal before that, leading up to when you hit the ground.

Well, it felt like it was right as I hit the ground. That doesn't matter though, all I know is, it was easier and I want it easier so it isn't as tedious and dumb dash attack combos don exits once the tech window is fixed.

Edit: WHOA! Is that a Sheik Ftilt knockback increase code I see thar in the OP? Does it fix the lock? Someone test!

 

[Dark Sonic]

Melee and 64 teching window was not right when you hit the ground. it was a good deal before that, leading up to when you hit the ground.

It wasn't distance based in either of them, but rather timing based (20 frames in melee).

 

[goodoldganon]

So I don't really understand how Shiek's F-Tilt code, but it's all really exciting stuff. I'll just wait until someone posts a decent code for Shiek's F-Tilt and then I'll copy it in.

 

[Eaode]

yeah we need an explanation of the math behind this knockback mod

 

[kupo15]

It wasn't distance based in either of them, but rather timing based (20 frames in melee).

Yea, they basically ****ed up teching as well

 

[goodoldganon]

Yea, they basically ****ed up teching

WOAH
WOAH
WOAH
WOAH
WOAH

Sakurai ****ed something up in Brawl? Unbelievable.

 

[Shell]

Hmm... kinda hard to use the ftilt launch modifier without knowing the original values

 

[Blank Mauser]

I tried using the addresses in the post and it seemed to effect not just Shiek's ftilt, but her Dtilt Utilt and Uair too. I could tell because I set the values pretty high and Pika would go flying off the top at 15% from each move.

Wonder if its just the values or the collision bubbles are shared. =\

 

[leafgreen386]

edit: If what blank mauser says is true, then this code is a whole lot less useful in its current form... it could still probably be used for nerfing sheik's ftilt, since it wouldn't impact the other moves by THAT much, but it's still unnecessary what it's doing to them =/

---

As far as I can tell, it's just an addition mod that's applied to a move's base and incremental launch speeds.

edit2: FRICK! I don't think this is an addition code, but rather a complete replacement. That would be fine, and actually would make things a little easier if it weren't for the bug that blank mauser mentioned. Feel free to read the rest of this tl;dr post, but it's not going to be very relevant until we get this all sorted out. If this really is a replacement code that is affecting more moves than just the one we want it to, then we're basically screwed and this code won't be able to be used for this.

In the most basic form, launch speed is calculated by:

l = dgw + b + ca

*If dgw + b < 2550 ca is not applied.

D is the damage. W is a weight value. G is the growth rate. B is the base launch speed. C is the value that determines how much a move is impacted by a character's fall acceleration (A represents a character's fall acceleration), which is only taken into account when the move becomes a strong hit and puts you into the tumble. Evidently, sheik's ftilt is very affected by characters' fall accelerations, seeing as most moves have a C value around 100.

If you want to learn more about how the game handles this stuff, I suggest you read colin's thread on it, which is a very good read: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=216700

Anyway, using colin's tool for calculating these values, I got this:

g = 16.52
b = 1223.27
c = 166.51449669294

You don't need to worry about the C value since this code doesn't concern it, leaving only the G and B values. The script colin used for calculating this is clearly imperfect, since it shouldn't be getting decimal values, so I'm gonna take an educated guess and say...

G = 17
B = 1225

For colin's tests, he arbitrarily gave mario a weight value of "1," which will work out just fine as long as we stick with that. This means that the launch speed of sheik's ftilt against mario at any arbitrary percent before it becomes a strong hit will be:

l = 17d + 1225

So in regular brawl, sheik's ftilt will become a strong hit against mario at 80%. Now, this is great and all, but there is something very important to take into account here. The hitstun mod affects how early someone goes into the tumble.

So since characters go into the tumble starting at a launch speed of 2550, and the default hitstun constant is .4, you can figure out the launch speed that a move becomes a strong hit at for any arbitrary hitstun constant with:

(2550 * .4) / h

Or just simply

1020 / h

Where h is the hitstun constant you're using. NOT THE PERCENT. THE ACTUAL DECIMAL THAT IT TRANSLATES TO.

So yeah... for a +.10 hitstun constant, we get

1020 / .5 = 2040

Meaning once sheik's ftilt (or any move for that matter) reaches a launch speed of 2040, it will become a strong hit and will send you into the tumble so you can DI/tech it.

With this setting, sheik's ftilt does this to mario at 48%, which is... better, but we want it to be even lower than that.

Obviously, sheik's ftilt was designed to have an abysmal growth rate so it could be used primarily as a combo move, so we're only going to be messing with its base knockback here. At least until we get a code for subtracting from launch speed, anyway.

Now, this is really easy if we just want to make sheik's ftilt send you into the tumble from 0%. The move itself does 5%, so the opponent will always be at least at 5%. So since it currently has a base launch speed of 1225 and 17*5 = 85, that means sheik's ftilt has a launch speed of 1310 against a mario who was hit at 0%. Now, our target goal is 2040, so since 2040 - 1310 is 730, you'd calculate that into hex (which is 02DA) and that would be the value you use for the base knockback.

At least... I think that's the value you would put in. This is assuming it's just an additive value... Either way, this process works for determining how much you need to buff a move by, so if the way this codes works ends up being different than I originally thought then this post will still be relevant.

 

[Adapt]

That new code is very interesting... I will wait for bugs to be fixed though before I play with it.

also, did anyone else lol at the hex line above XXXXYYYY?

of course it would have been better if it was FEEDF00D

 

[Shadic]

Nothing beats DEADBEEF.

 

[cAm8ooo]

Nothing beats DEADBEEF.

Which is funny cuz its a game i have on my ipod.

 

[Blank Mauser]

Code also effected Luigi's Nair, killing Peach at 25% and Falco's Usmash killing at like around 50%.

 

[Dan_X]

Which is funny cuz its a game i have on my ipod.

I have that game too-- i wish they'd update it!

 

[SketchHurricane]

Code also effected Luigi's Nair, killing Peach at 25% and Falco's Usmash killing at like around 50%.

So Shiek's ftilt collision bubble is shared by many other moves it seems. I guess we need another solution. Unless, of course, we are able to add a character specific conditional somewhere in that code that would check for Shiek...

 

[shanus]

So got myself a new 5 input 2 output device so I can now digitally record my matches easily and quickly :D. Now my film major friends agree to make a good combo video, expect one within a few weeks. I'll try and make it as marketable and awesome as possible to really try and showcase what Brawl+ can do.

 

[KayJay]

Uhm, since we made it harder to powershield, would it be a bad idea if we include a code into the to do list which makes powershields reflecting projectiles again?

 

[zxeon]

So Shiek's ftilt collision bubble is shared by many other moves it seems. I guess we need another solution. Unless, of course, we are able to add a character specific conditional somewhere in that code that would check for Shiek...

That's still a pretty cool discovery.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

So for the tentative "official" Brawl+ codes, do I use all the ones listed in the gct found in the link up top, or just some of them? Someone wanna just send me the txt?

 

[GPDP]

So for the tentative "official" Brawl+ codes, do I use all the ones listed in the gct found in the link up top, or just some of them? Someone wanna just send me the txt?

The txt is there on the link as well. Just right-click, then click save as.

 

[trojanpooh]

Uhm, since we made it harder to powershield, would it be a bad idea if we include a code into the to do list which makes powershields reflecting projectiles again?

That would be good. I can't it see it being too hard to code as the game does have plenty of reflectors. It could probably be made by saying that if you power shield then you act as though you have the franklin badge equipped. A nice rewarding sound effect would even be included!

 

[zxeon]

That would be good. I can't it see it being too hard to code as the game does have plenty of reflectors. It could probably be made by saying that if you power shield then you act as though you have the franklin badge equipped. A nice rewarding sound effect would even be included!

That sounds plausible. Best idea I've heard in a while. Does the franklin badge work through shields?

 

[Team Giza]

I like the projectile game as it is now. I wouldn't want to hurt it by adding projectile reflecting. It would make getting through well spaced and timed projectile play a little too easy.

 

[zxeon]

I like the projectile game as it is now. I wouldn't want to hurt it by adding projectile reflecting. It would make getting through well spaced and timed projectile play a little too easy.

How is that a bad thing? You know there are characters that have no projectiles? Think of them first.

 

[Kyd]

if only Zelda's could be reflected...

 

[Team Giza]

Most of them actually do have decent ways around it or at least punishing poor spacing now. There are characters who are made to rely on there projectiles now and then for part of the match ups and I don't want to hurt that. Adding projectile reflecting perfect shielding hurts game diversity.

 

[MasterRaichu]

Powershielding projectiles definitely is a tactic I would love to see brought back. It's a competitive tactic that's sort of a reward for good shield timing.

 

[zxeon]

Most of them actually do have decent ways around it or at least punishing poor spacing now. There are characters who are made to rely on there projectiles now and then for part of the match ups and I don't want to hurt that. Adding projectile reflecting perfect shielding hurts game diversity.

Which characters are these?

 

[trojanpooh]

I like the projectile game as it is now. I wouldn't want to hurt it by adding projectile reflecting. It would make getting through well spaced and timed projectile play a little too easy.

What if someone took advantage of the NPS "problem" some versions of the codes have? NPS could be set to 3 frames (or whatever) and PS could be set to 1 or 2 frames. Only PS would reflect. I don't really know enough to determine how plausible this is, but I do enough coding in general to have an idea of what may or may not work.

 

[zxeon]

What if someone took advantage of the NPS "problem" some versions of the codes have? NPS could be set to 3 frames (or whatever) and PS could be set to 1 or 2 frames. Only PS would reflect. I don't really know enough to determine how plausible this is, but I do enough coding in general to have an idea of what may or may not work.

Another good idea. Check your smoke detectors' batteries 'cause you're on fire.

I wouldn't worry much about PSing becoming too difficult, something tells me that a 1 frame PS window isn't that hard to hit and with an NPS window following it just makes it even more appealing.