Character Rankings List - Post-March 2010

[Browny]

hey shaya
...
...
...
lose to my DK while you use DDD on final distination more
...
lollolol

 

[Shaya]

hey shaya
...
...
...
lose to my DK while you use DDD on final distination more
...
lollolol

10wifails.

Also you're the one who avoids the rematch like the plague <3.

 

[Shy Guy 86]

When will this update again? I never knew Pit fell down to Class D...

 

[DrakeRowan]

FUN FUN TIME

Players who have gotten Sonic points in the last 2 months of the list

Shadowlink, Malcolm, Minato, X, Anther, KMAG, Pheonix, Puffbal, KID, NoR4U, DJBrowny, Blue, Fruity, Jkip, IceDX, Sonik (16 total)

Lets compare it to... i dont know, Peach?
Sky, SD, KOKingpin, Kied, Dark.pch, Edrees, Iketakeda, Slikvik, peepo, core, Smeesh, Bone, Niko, Azen (*as a thirdary), Rowan, Excel_Zero (16 total)

OMG sonic has a MILLION players flooding the tourney scene. There just arent enough other character mainers to stop these 16 and their mission to skew tourney results forever.

Sonic has more players than most of the low/middle tiers but thats about it. maybe, just MAYBE people are using him because he could be... viable?

Fixed.

Oh look I can drop names too!

 

[Napilopez]

Lolz, I wonder if this will turn into a Sonic main invasion once they all wake up.

Addressing Edees's point, I would say its more regional bias. Sonic hasn't done much in Cali, relative to other areas. We have said before that Cali is likely Sonic's weakest area, who knows why. Here in AN he seems to manage pretty well against talented players. It Always kind of irks me(and prolly other Sonic folk) when people say Sonic gets his points because he is so popular, when he kinda really isn't. You are right that this list doesn't measure popularity, but from experience and overall knowledge/heresay, he's midway at best in popularity, and I would venture to say his popularity is only now increasing as he seemingly becomes more viable(keyword: seemingly. The character remains the same).

Also, you're right. He's not that good of a character. But likewise you don't see the rest of low tier performing like he has.

One thing you didn't make mention of is player skill. Sonic doesn't have any really big name people using him except for Anther, who still has alot to learn(Oh those sideB suicides, <3 Anther) in Sonic's character specific points. Larger inter-regional torunaments attract better players, and by default these players will usually be using the top/high chars. And no one is saying Sonic is high tier, just mid. Like, I believe peach is high tier, so she deseres to be up there. So unless we get our current mains to become top-professional level players, or get top-level players to main Sonic, Sonic's will need a lot of luck to place in the top eight at such a tourney. And Sonic is too difficult a character to use well for most players to want to use him, so perhaps that extreme zealousness you mentioned has something to do with it.

If you want to speak about character specifics, Sonic performs very well against the rest of low tier, and can hold his won against top and high tiear chars. He doesn't have any unwinnable or nigh unwinnable matchups, just some rather tough ones at worst. Matchups with Sonic seriously do tend to depend more on the player's ability and playstyle than character attributes. And a bunch of other stuff, that makes him not great, but good enough for mid tier.

 

[rehab]

Ness > Sonic (in the matchup)



Matchup theory is always based on the highest possible level of play. Can you explain something like how Sonic becomes better when Malcolm uses him?

 

[Chis]

Ness > Sonic (in the matchup)

It's neutral.

Matchup theory is always based on the highest possible level of play. Can you explain something like how Sonic becomes better when Malcolm uses him?

Match ups are based on paper since the game is not even a year old yet. Some of Sonic's best traits are player dependent; his cancel able approaches, speed, mind games, baiting etc. Which you can't factor into a match up discussion, so his match ups look worse then they really are.

 

[ph00tbag]

Can we just stop talking about Sonic. It's really ****ing boring.

 

[JhMS]

hey you guys know who's bad?

sonic.

Lol.This post is epic .
But I agree with ph00tbag,we really need to stop the sonic talk.

 

[Galaxy]

FUN FUN TIME

Players who have gotten Sonic points in the last 2 months of the list

Shadowlink, Malcolm, Minato, X, Anther, KMAG, Pheonix, Puffbal, KID, NoR4U, DJBrowny, Blue, Fruity, Jkip, IceDX, Sonik (16 total)

Lets compare it to... i dont know, Peach?
Sky, SD, KOKingpin, Kied, Dark.pch, Edrees, Iketakeda, Slikvik, peepo, core, Smeesh, Bone (12 total)

OMG sonic has a MILLION players flooding the tourney scene. There just arent enough other character mainers to stop these 16 and their mission to skew tourney results forever.

Sonic has more players than most of the low/middle tiers but thats about it. maybe, just MAYBE people are using him because he could be... viable?

I think the point Edrees was making is: Check the tournaments in which each person placed. Sure, you have more placings but the tournaments they are from are like 20 man little ones that aren't hard to rank in or do not have great competition.

 

[Camalange]

I think Napi stated everything I wanted to say in a polite organized way.

Ggs Napi, ggs.

 

[Fletch]

Lolz, I wonder if this will turn into a Sonic main invasion once they all wake up.

Please no. If I hear one more thing about steak...

 

[Camalange]

Please no. If I hear one more thing about steak...

You do realize that everything so far posted by a Sonic main was completely on topic and nowhere did it mention steak, correct?

Don't try to poke at it.

 

[Kinzer]

Stuff

Bottom line, Sonic sucks and will always suck, everybody should know this by now.

hey you guys know who's bad?

sonic.

This is quote worthy, like seriously.

Can we just stop talking about Sonic. It's really ****ing boring.

Find something else to do than reading the forums then.

Please no. If I hear one more thing about steak...

Hi there, how are you doing this morning?!

*goes back to read everything else that was more than a one-liner.*

 

[Fletch]

You do realize that everything so far posted by a Sonic main was completely on topic and nowhere did it mention steak, correct?

Don't try to poke at it.

I realize that so far, but when all the Sonic mains invade a thread that seems to be inevitably what it comes down to.

 

[Camalange]

I realize that so far, but when all the Sonic mains invade a thread that seems to be inevitably what it comes down to.

lol, I understand >_>

I think we're all past that now though.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Quick check because I am a scrub

Do tier lists take into account human error? Like screwing up in a match? And making up a tier list takes into account tourney results such as these correct?

 

[Zephramrill]

hey you guys know who's bad?

sonic.

When gimpy owned sonic in the char ranks list I jizzed in my Pants.

 

[Kinzer]

The tier list as of now if flawed Rick.

*ahem*

Anyway, I should like to see what comes up in Jan 5th assuming it does get released then.

Edit: Get with the times Zeph, everybody owns Sonic, he sucks.

 

[Camalange]

I find it funny how the kid who mains Pokemon Trainer goes out of his way to mock Sonic.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I know the tier list is quite flawed and very outdated. We can't harp on about it because it's outdated - it was probably correct at the time

The thing is, if human error isn't taken into account when creating the tier list, Sonic isn't going to rise up much because he's so punishment based. If the tier list is based on perfect players with perfect skills playing perfectly, Sonic isn't going to go up and will have to rely on tourney results to get up

Spoiler

*Waits for someone to shoot me down :/*

 

[Kinzer]

That was just awesome Camal.

But seriously I'm probably like the only Sonic player on the West Coast who even bothers to keep himself up to with stuff like SWF and junk. I'm stilll trying to get better, and I can't travel because it's out of my power.

There is another good Sonic player at the local tourneys I go, but he has a life or something, and doesn't stick with Sonic too often anyway.

Name like 4 other dedicated Sonic players on the West coast people actually know exist, and you'll see my point.

There is a seriously lack here, if you want Sonic, go to the Tri-state area, you won't be disappointed.

Edit: Rick, you're right, the tier list doesn't take into account human error, that is one thing that will always make Sonic look even worse on first impression, because his playstyle relies so much on the opponent. He is terrible on paper, and can barely hold his own in practice.

 

[Camalange]

I see the point you're making Rick, but that doesn't seem to be the reason people are stating for Sonic being low tier. It's because he only places in small tournaments? Because he has "popularity" and not potential? Hm? Yes, no?

 

[goodkid]

That was just awesome Camal.

Rick, you're right, the tier list doesn't take into account human error, that is one thing that will always make Sonic look even worse on first impression, because his playstyle relies so much on the opponent. He is terrible on paper, and can barely hold his own in practice.

Sonic will rise up to mid tier, & that may be it, he's very punishment based, but he can adapt really well, depending on the player, Sonic has potential!

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Small tournaments are still tournaments. This list has been specifically designed to give the bigger tournaments greater rewards correct? Sonic may only be winning small tourneys but that still means that technically, he is tourney viable right?

 

[Camalange]

Small tournaments are still tournaments. This list has been specifically designed to give the bigger tournaments greater rewards correct? Sonic may only be winning small tourneys but that still means that technically, he is tourney viable right?

I would imagine so.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Maybe we're taking tourney as TOURNEY and they're taking it as regionals. =3

 

[Kinzer]

All too true, just Sonic has very little potential when comparing to other things.

What does have potential, is the people who play him.

Also Rick my man again you're right, smaller tournament get less points.

You should get Steak points for debating with another Peach main.

/Steak

 

[Zephramrill]

No, it means that he has a huge fanbase... if 1000 people play and enter tourneys with sonic and only 20 place with him and 1000 people play with Peach and like 70 place with him, it shows that Peach has better players per capita. The problem with the Character rankings list is that we have to infer the skill of people into the potential of a character. Its flawed, but its the best attempt at it so far.

 

[Espy Rose]

I love how despite Edreeses post, as well as most of the Sonic mainer's posts, almost every other poster since the last page has made some sort of one-liner mocking Sonic's viability.

I think the issue is that when you don't address Sonic's off-paper elements and styles, he looks like total shiz, and many people from that point simply assumed that Sonic sucked because he had nothing going for him.

I do believe Sonic isn't that great of a character, but at the same time, I don't think he should be down there with the likes of...oh...Ganondorf and Jigglypuff.

There's just a large discrimination against Sonic, and even considering playing him in a tournament feels like a sort of taboo.

It's hard to even be serious when discussing Sonic, this thread and the last two pages (starting at 334) being proof. The only people who have been keeping this going is Edreeses' post, and the Sonic mains.

Practically every other post about Sonic after EP's post is just some little jab at the character.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

All too true, just Sonic has very little potential when comparing to other things.

What does have potential, is the people who play him.

Also Rick my man again you're right, smaller tournament get less points.

You should get Steak points for debating with another Peach main.

/Steak

That's why Sonic won't move up very far. He's clinging onto tourney results to boost him up like he clings onto rings to stay alive. He still should move up because of his tourney results. But then you have the problem of who goes below...

O.o who am I debating with?

Edit:

No, it means that he has a huge fanbase... if 1000 people play and enter tourneys with sonic and only 20 place with him and 1000 people play with Peach and like 70 place with him, it shows that Peach has better players per capita. The problem with the Character rankings list is that we have to infer the skill of people into the potential of a character. Its flawed, but its the best attempt at it so far.

I understand where you're coming from. However, if Sonic was that bad and was not tourney viable, would it matter how many people played Sonic in a tourney? Unless it was a ridiculous amount and there was nothing but Sonics and maybe 1 or 2 MK's

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Remember when people thought that Bowser belonged high up because of Kish's Tournament record and they never considered that a player dependent thing. But now that Sonic is placing high it's because it's people playing him in small tourneys?

 

[Tenki]

well, if we went by a few somewhat-outdated SFR thought processes, if there were 1000 sonic mains players in a tournament, 5 MK mains, 3 Snakes, 3 GAW's, and 6 King Dedede's...

you'd probably have 3 MK's in top 8, 1 Snake, 1 GAW, 2 Dedede's and maybe a Sonic main, just because of numbers and assumed matchups.

 

[goodkid]

Remember when people thought that Bowser belonged high up because of Kish's Tournament record and they never considered that a player dependent thing. But now that Sonic is placing high it's because it's people playing him in small tourneys?

Bowser is really that good, you really have to adjust to this match-up, you have to keep your distance, otherwise you'll get koopa-clawed to your death! If you attack his shield, they always up-B out, if you roll, D-Smash to death, run towards him, F-smash to death, hang on the ledge too long, Bowser Flamethrower to death, could Bowser actually be high tier?

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Yeah but they made it seem like his placement was for the wrong reason.

High tier? No.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Bowser is not to be underestimated but there is no way he's high tier. I imagine his decent match up with MK will give him a boost though

Edit: Also, before I forget
I know the tier list is outdated but...

Incidently, did you know that Sonic is doing better tourney results-wise than 14 characters above him in the tier list?

 

[cj.Shark]

Bowser is not to be underestimated but there is no way he's high tier. I imagine his decent match up with MK will give him a boost though

only because bowser has a ridiculous 30-40% chaingrab and can kill mk from a grab with a grab-dtilt at 80-90%

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

only because bowser has a ridiculous 30-40% chaingrab and can kill mk from a grab with a grab-dtilt at 80-90%

Well, having a better match up with MK who is considered the best atm (even ban-worthy) is going to be valuable right?

Oh and

Incidently, did you know that Sonic is doing better tourney results-wise than 14 characters above him in the tier list?

I felt like re-posting it. Bwaah.

 

[infomon]

Lolz, I wonder if this will turn into a Sonic main invasion once they all wake up.

I was hoping this wouldn't happen, since I pretty much agree with Edrees.

... it looks like I'm too slow

 

[LinIsKorean]

Bowser, I'm afraid to admit, is not high tier potential. At best he'll stay in middle, although I see him moving down to low. There is a lack of good Bowser mains, but hopefully myself and a few others will be able to fill the void.