Character Competitive Impressions

[Sinister Slush]

ESamus guide us to the promise land.

 

[Luco]

THAT SAMUS WIN IS SO HYPE!

 

[hypersonicJD]

Oh my god... Esam has a really impressive Samus. Is now Samus going to be considered Mid Tier now?

 

[Smog Frog]

he actually won? maybe has some redeeming qualities against some top tiers.

 

[Djent]

Surprise! in top 8.

And now !!

 

[PUK]

Guys, ESAM is playing Samus.

What is going on?!?

Nairo will play zelda against Zero now

 

[Ikes]

Guys, ESAM is playing Samus.

What is going on?!?

Edit:

Guys, ESAM is winning with Samus.

What is going on?!?

link??

 

[Djent]

**** mobile phone service doublepost...please delete.

 

[PUK]

ESAM plays luigi really badly though. He keeps attacking on landing, even on BF where he has ton of safer option

 

[Sinister Slush]

Should've stayed Samus.
Would be better to zone out luigi than be pikachu.

 

[Ffamran]

Guys, ESAM is playing Samus.

What is going on?!?

He played her in PM and previous games right? Old mains die hard. Being a floaty and heavy probably makes it more difficult for Luigi to combo her, especially since nobody knows the MU. If Larry had a prominent Samus main in his region, ESAM picking Samus would have been a death sentence.

he actually won? maybe has some redeeming qualities against some top tiers.

The Rosalina and Samus boards felt like Rosalina and Samus are either even or slightly disadvantaged to Samus which considering where Samus is on people's tier lists, that's actually pretty damn good. In general, a lot of "bad" characters do well against various top tier characters. It's one of those random counterpicks that exist, but because those characters struggle against like everyone, it doesn't matter.

 

[Thinkaman]

The top 8 players have currently played 13 unique characters in the top 32 bracket.

 

[Luco]

It's the match of the century (for the hundredth time this century).

I really want an upset today hehehee

 

[hypersonicJD]

Nairo vs Zero hype.

http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp

 

[Teshie U]

He didn't stay Samus because it wasn't his CP. Larry was obviously going to go back to Fox which is not as doable for Samus.

Samus is fine against slower characters that don't turn charge shot into a liability.

 

[Pazx]

To me this shows that Luigi has a serious problem with characters who can keep him out. Good to watch, though.

 

[thehard]

ESAM making good on his Samus/Luigi theorycraft

 

[Spinosaurus]

Should've stayed Samus.
Would be better to zone out luigi than be pikachu.

If he did Larry could have picked Fox and took this for free lol

Not that it matters anyway

 

[DblCrest]

Bah I have to go now so I won't be able to see the outcome :/
Hope it's something interesting.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

"sponsored by M&Ms" LOL

TK Giving me more hope for Nairo to win.

 

[Sinister Slush]

I mean in a sense, if you do switch to Pika he'll stay Luigi. Counterpicking screwed him.

 

[PUK]

Sheik looks really hard to ZSS god

 

[Nidtendofreak]

So, how many people in Boss' region are going to be developing a pocket Samus now?

 

[Teshie U]

I mean in a sense, if you do switch to Pika he'll stay Luigi. Counterpicking screwed him.

when you lose game 1 it goes that way.

i do think he should have stayed samus, his pikachu got wrecked in both matchups so maybe he could handle fox better with samus

 

[Luco]

I honestly think Halberd needs to go lol. The argument that 'if you get hit by its hazards you're a pleb' should be all but invalidated by now.

I need to sleep though, good stuff to @Dabuz for making top 3, that's really hype.

 

[hypersonicJD]

I mean... Dabuz is boring for me. But now it's Dabuz vs Nairo. So i'm hyped for Nairo

 

[Spinosaurus]

So far everyone just gave Dabuz the win :/
Nairo pls win this

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

1-0 Nairo yessss.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I'm more confused about why Larry took a Rosalina to Halberd in the first place. Low ceilings are love for her.

 

[Mario766]

Time for the runback.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Nairo actually did exactly what he should have. Stuck with his best character (who doesn't lose hard to Rosa) and didn't pick the good Rosa stages. Shaky had questionable stage picks, MVD had questionable character picks and Larry had both.

 

[Smog Frog]

i think dsr was in effect, and thats why he didnt pick fd on his counterpicks

 

[Ffamran]

I honestly think Halberd needs to go lol. The argument that 'if you get hit by its hazards you're a pleb' should be all but invalidated by now.

I need to sleep though, good stuff to @Dabuz for making top 3, that's really hype.

I don't think Halberd's the problem, but Rosalina & Luma's Uair needs to be changed. Rosie's Uair comes out at frame 8, does 10%, has a base knockback of 40, knockback growth of 98, and sends you almost vertically at 88 degrees. At frame 11, it does 5% and the rest is the same, so a weak hit, and the weakest hit comes out at frame 22 which does 2%, has a BKB of 20, KBG of 30, and still sends you at 88 degrees. Luma's comes out at frame 9, but I think it comes out 1 frame later than that because all of Luma's moves come out 1 frame later than Rosie - makes sense because she's commanding him. Anyway, it does 4%, but has a BKB of 30, KBG of 130, and sends you once again, almost vertically at 80 degrees.

Contrast this with Fox whose Uair does two hits, with the final hit coming out at frame 12, does 11%, has a BKB of 30, and KBG of 100, and sends you up at 85 degrees. Also keep in mind that Fox's jump is lower and he falls faster means he has to be at the right moment at the right time to Uair. Fox's Uair also sometimes whiffs the second hit and people can fall out of it. There's Ness too whose Uair comes out at frame 8, does 13%, has a BKB of 13, KBG of 109, and sends you at 85 degrees. Ness's jump is good and he's a floaty, but his Uair's range pales in comparison to Rosalina's which is vertically disjointed and she's tall too. There's Link, Zelda, and Ike too who have strong, disjointed Uairs, but Link and Ike don't have high jumps, Link's is narrow while Ike's is horizontal, and Zelda's not only slow, but it's telegraphed by the sound it makes - you can hear it before it hits you. Ike and Zelda's are also almost twice as slow as Rosalina's, Ike's at 13 frames of startup and Zelda's at 14 while Link's at 11.

How the hell does this get ignored? It's been seen countless times, but nobody bats an eye or thinks, "Hey, that might be a bit too much powerful." It's not Diddy's spam-happy Uair pre-pre-patch, but it's a move that can kill heavies at 20% on Halberd and kills at sub-100%. It's like giving someone a Ganodorf Side Smash, but making it much faster and safer. Hi, Roy.

Edit: Rosalina has Falco's current Uair, but with 1 more frame of startup, 5 more BKB, and 8 more KBG while doing the same damage, is disjointed, lingers with weaker hits, and a good jump as well. Patch or no patch, Falco was capable of the same thing Rosalina is, but he's slower than her and lacks her Uair's vertical range. Why is this a thing for Rosalina?

 

[Thinkaman]

1st Place:
Zero


2nd Place:
Nairo


3rd Place:
Dabuz


4th Place:
Larry


5th Place:
MVD
ESAM


7th Place:
Shaky
NickRiddle


9th Place:
Vinnie
Master Raven
Mr. R
StaticManny


13th Place:
Tyrant
Fresh Die Nasty
Anti
KamiKario


17th Place:
falln
Fatality
Phuzix
8BitMan
AWAL
Trela
SeagullJoe
Poltergust


25th Place:
KDB
6WX
Neos
Tony
Xaltis
TheReflexWonder
Myran
ScAtt


Top 4: (7 total)
x2


Top 8: (13 total)
x2


Top 16: (17 total)
x6
x3
x2


Top 32: (25 total)
x7
x4
x2



Noteworthy absences:
would be in the top 4 usage, except Dabuz happened to never end up in a matchup where it was called for.
doesn't even make top 8, thanks to the diligent hard work of one Nick Riddle.
technically wasn't used, but c'mon. Still, Nairo's very limited Dark Pit usage was the only such.
and are MIA entirely.
isn't anywhere to be seen, due to the surprisingly elimination of DK Will.
doesn't appear, though Sol had a very convincing showing and the matchup-centric metagame we are seeing emerge has more room in it for Mac.
ditto as Mac. (I don't think ScAtt played any Ganon, but he has in tourney as a counterpick in the past.)
are wild cards. We've seen really great play from all of them recently, including Punk Fresh's Lucas in this very event.
Then we've got potential wild cards like , who totally have the potential to be among that top 32 or even higher.
Customs definitely adds and to any expectation list (and if he isn't there already), but also and .


To be honest, all that leaves is .

 

[|RK|]

Yo ZeRo is the man lmao

 

[Teshie U]

You can't just look at the move in a vacuum like that. Its all about which kit this tool is attached to. You can't just compare her juggling options to a character that can toss out any aerial, FF to the ground before you, readjust horizontal spacing continue to juggle to wherever you jumped to. None of Rosalina's aerials even hit inside her body, so if you get a well timed airdodge past the hitboxes, you can't just pump our nair like Fox.

If you take a large target with low weight and a vulnerable recovery you can see how easily a "balanced" pool of moves turns that character into arguably one of the worst (Mewtwo).

Uair/Utilt base knockback might be a bit much, but if you let Rosalina take you to Halberd (or worse take her there twice) you can't really be surprised when this happens.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Data is nice and all, thinkaman. But some characters shouldn't be there cause they onl-
Ya know what, nvm. Nobody does it but I honestly feel other characters shouldn't be added to their names if they didn't win with them. Ex. MVD with Falcon DH. NR with Bowser.

 

[SapphSabre777]

Well, congrats to ZeRo, I guess...but now he is one win away from effectively putting the nail on the coffin of Smash 4's competitive scene. R.I.P. Smash 4 Competitive Scene

 

[Mario766]

We could have seen Ike in bracket, but Ryo lost to Neos in pool 5. His Ike was looking really good too.

 

[Djent]

And for the hell of it, my top 8 predictions:

Spoiler

1) Zero
2) Nairo
3) Dabuz
4) Mr.R
5) ESAM
5) Vinnie
7) Shaky
7) NickRiddle

Damn, 3 matches away from an exact match.