Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[Eon the Wolf]

He actually only shield grabs bout half of the time. The other half he grabs as I try to Wavedash behind or when I hit the ground and am about to go back up (read: I jumped too soon, got hit out of the air, or I made another mistake). I HAVE been been meaning to do Nairs more, but without a reliable SH, I feel like they're not easy to get in because he almost NEVER goes into the air willingly (a smart choice, naturally, but a frustrating one). I DO use it whenever I can, however....I also need to practice my tilts more, but thanks for the advice. Speaking of tilts, I noticed in the Ken VS Aizen when Aizen first came back that one of them was utilting (I think it was Aizen) rather quickly after a uthrow, which I swear I'm not nearly as fast. I also noticed most of the 'pro' Marths have a knack for going straight from sh/full jump to crouch dtilt in half a second flat...Any secret? :/

I do DI, I was just wondering is there any way to get out of it before I get 20-30%/2-4 hits or maybe avoid them altogether?

I try to stay close, and my Dash dance definitely isnt bad, but I end up sometimes jumping (Honestly as little action as this controller has seen....It's still from my Gamecube's release, so I'll be trying to buy a new one...or maybe 2....this christmas. See if that helps) But yeah I've noticed when I DD he tends to rush me a bit more or get frustrated...at least when I can effectively dodge the grab. My problem is I end up focusing on staying out of attack range rather than grab, as most of his damage comes from grabs, projectiles, and 'well placed' fsmashes :/. My main issue with this whole strategy is I always seem to be just half a second too slow/late in grabbing or attacking when trying to punish his grab x.x. I suppose that's just one of those mind games/prediction things I need to learn on my own....

Well, I do rather well with half of those, and of those half a few I'm considering as an alt (IC, Pichu, Sheik, Luigi) so I'll try to get better with it with them, thanks. I've read a few tips given to others (IE Pretend X/Y is scalding hot and try to withdraw your fingers the millisecond they've pressed it, as if they were burned. Flick the analog directionally/any direction quickly, without much force, but just enough). But I'll see what I can do on my own. Thanks.


Yeah, I personally don't like Falco. Much too fast of a faller x.x. I'd choose fox between him n Falco just bout every time >.>....

 

[elvenarrow3000]

If you know what situations you get grabbed in, don't put yourself in those situations. Or spot dodge when you're in those situations.

There's no secret to the tilts. Although you should know that some throw speeds are affected by character weight, so you'll be able to act after the uthrow much faster if you were throwing Pichu rather than Bowser. The dtilt is just... you dtilt. L-canceling will speed it up the aerial to dtilt, but there's no trick other than like... learning the rhythm, rather than mashing the button.

But yeah, when I was still learning the game, my friend used Link against my Marth all the time, so I feel your pain.

 

[JBM falcon08]

Against sheik you should go......

Marth

 

[I.B]

Where are you Cactus

 

[Cactuar]

I retired. I'm in a cactus retirement home.

 

[DJMirror]

I retired. I'm in a cactus retirement home.

oh man =/ I wish i can still get more advices from you


you were a great help

 

[ChivalRuse]

Against sheik you should go......

Marth

Hey, I think you just made a funny.

 

[stelzig]

TresChikon, I have nooo idea what you said =P

The thing about lasers is if you play it defensive, you're probably going to lose out. Sure, you can powershield, but there's nothing stopping them from just shining after every laser if you don't approach. Eventually, you're going to have to move in, and you might as well do that sooner than later.

Powershield just close enough for him to be unable to go out of shine if he reflects it and you powershield again. Then keep powershielding until the reflector breaks.
It would be so awesome to see in a match xD

 

[I.B]

Cactus, are you gonna become the guru at your very own Melee dojo?

 

[Dark Sonic]

Powershield just close enough for him to be unable to go out of shine if he reflects it and you powershield again. Then keep powershielding until the reflector breaks.
It would be so awesome to see in a match xD

Too slow <_<

Anyway, Powershielding is still a very nice tool to have. You're not SUPPOSED to camp with it, you're supposed to use it to approach as a tool for getting through lasers, not for trying to make Falco stop using them.

 

[By-Tor]

exactly how do you shorthop double fair? I see top level players do it all the time and I could never figure it out, the 2nd slash just doesn't come out

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

be fast. use A button to learn timing, use cstick once you master it (you'll need it for retreating fairs)

 

[NTMR]

Can someone describe their finger technique for csticking to the right? I can do it to the left just fine by pushing the stick to the left with the base of my thumb (below the joint), but trying to put part of my hand on the stick and pushing it to the right often results in a dair instead the fair I wanted, not to mention this feels really awkward to do. Is this just a matter of practice? Should I actually move my thumb away from y/a/b to the cstick, or is there some other method that would work well?
I guess this could be a general question instead of a marth specific one, but this all came about because I'm having trouble reliably getting a sh fair out quick enough to waveland (but only when the fair is to the right :/)

 

[Cactuar]

There is no technique secrets for that. I just press jump and then quickly move the tip of my thumb down to the cstick.

 

[KAOSTAR]

I use the flying lotus or tiger's claw

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

you know whats funny... i was simultaneously asked the same question tonight (literally the same time, but in person)

 

[Dart]

i found it easier to do A for the first one and then cstick the second, or reverse that and use cstick to A

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Its better to use cstick, at least for the first one. Retreating fair is a must.

 

[SwiftBass]

Im probly the worst out of shield player in the history of players

tell me how to get better at it

 

[ChivalRuse]

Don't give yourself too little credit. As long as you can wavedash/shine/upsmash OOS you're in pretty good shape. Not fox boards.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

run forward, shield, retreating fair OoS.

you have a shield game now.

 

[Cosmo!]

run forward, shield, retreating fair OoS.

you have a shield game now.

agreed, this is a great starting point for anybody who wants to try to get a good shield game with marth


also i played some matches last night and I firmly believe that every single move marth has is useful


nice gaga av, swift ;-o


edit LOL nice uffie location too

 

[AnDaLe]

run forward, shield, Nair, any good?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

nair forward->retreating fair is good if you space it right.

 

[Necro]

hey cactuar what is the most dificult movement technik to do for you ?

 

[DtJ Jungle]

too bad he wont answer.

 

[dch111]

So I've landed a SH double Fair and am hoping to follow it up with more hits to a spike or Fsmash.

Question: How do I know when (or if) to mix some Nairs in there along the way?

If it were up to me, I'd just continue doing Fair for the rest of the way. But I often see people mix in Nairs (as well as going back to Fairs...maybe even alternating) throughout the combo, and I don't understand why. Not just for aesthetic reasons, right? Surely there is a special function of the Nair in these combos.

 

[iamthemicrowave]

how do you do the dtilt to grab approach, like really fast

 

[Nø Ca$h]

Im probly the worst out of shield player in the history of players

tell me how to get better at it

hold R/L down to hard shield, but dont click it. jump oos and then click it to wd. WD OoS for dummies

 

[KAOSTAR]

So I've landed a SH double Fair and am hoping to follow it up with more hits to a spike or Fsmash.

Question: How do I know when (or if) to mix some Nairs in there along the way?

If it were up to me, I'd just continue doing Fair for the rest of the way. But I often see people mix in Nairs (as well as going back to Fairs...maybe even alternating) throughout the combo, and I don't understand why. Not just for aesthetic reasons, right? Surely there is a special function of the Nair in these combos.

when they keep getting hit

 

[dch111]

So if just using Fair can do that, then no need to bother with Nairs, right?

 

[Tatzelwurm136]

you can use nair to gain some horizontal distance. if you get your first fair in the middle of FD but want to end it at the edge, you might want to nair then follow with fairs to fsmash/spike

and you can do tricks too, like when you think they will DI out for a fair near the edge, you nair instead and they die lol

 

[KAOSTAR]

nairs often have knockback thats more than what you would want to continue a combo(juggle). fair works all too well.

nair into grab is tight tho

 

[Rappster]

do any of yall use claw? (specifically righthanded claw, left hand held normally)
i broke my right thumb yesterdayand so i think i'll be using some wierd claw variant for a few days (or weeks)

 

[Lovage]

does anyone know what causes that weird dash attack teleport thing?

i've experienced it randomly, basically after connecting with a dash attack (i think it must tip) and then jumping right after, your jump starts a few steps behind you. sometimes it kinda looks like you're teleporting back to that spot a few steps behind you before jumping. i don't know what causes this exactly.

i saw it happen to HBK in his sets vs. chops but i'm too lazy right now to look thru all the videos to find which one it was

 

[Milos]

ugh i landed the stupidest combo haha

it was like a retreating sh double fair

the first one hit with the middle, the second one tipper'd. i did like a dthrow, tech chased with the first hit of nair, f throw tech chase reverse up b lolllllll

 

[JBM falcon08]

Lovage

that has happened to me countless times. i notice that you can angle where marth's dash attack hits at and if you aim for it to hit at a more downward angle you often lets just say moonwalk backwards from it. Also this happens when you start the dash attack just as you start dashing. I'm assuming its about momentum.

 

[Lovage]

thanks for the info JBM

have you found a way to replicate it 100% of the time?

 

[AceDudeyeah]

how do you do the dtilt to grab approach, like really fast

Practice dtilt-ing and then dashing out of it. To see when the timing begins, just hold forward right after u start it.
Once you got the dashing interruption down, just throw in that JC grab

ugh i landed the stupidest combo haha

it was like a retreating sh double fair

the first one hit with the middle, the second one tipper'd. i did like a dthrow, tech chased with the first hit of nair, f throw tech chase reverse up b lolllllll

Good job! You get

 

[KAOSTAR]

I guess we have some **** to work on then