Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[elvenarrow3000]

Jeez guys, is my grammar that bad?

"Dancing Blade hits like bombs" isn't good grammar at all =(

Clearly, the "like" was a colloquialism and should ignored, therefore yielding...

"Dancing Blade hits bombs."

 

[Nø Ca$h]

Suuuper dumb question but...

Im terrible with marths recovery, is there a trick to his upb? like it can be angled right? If so whens the best time to do this?

just tips on recovering would be cool thanks

heyy whats good lol.

 

[Signia]

heyy whats good lol.

??????????

 

[Nø Ca$h]

that was directed towards thelake

 

[Tee ay eye]

how are you supposed to move against falcon?

are you supposed to be like, dash dancing kinda like against fox

i'd imagine not because of falcon's long nair and longer air-time; so what would you do? just kinda move around, except cover yourself with your sword?

also, what can you do to stop (or counter) his nair? it always seems to go past my fair

 

[DtJ Jungle]

At low percents I think you can CC into grab.

 

[AceDudeyeah]

how are you supposed to move against falcon?

are you supposed to be like, dash dancing kinda like against fox

i'd imagine not because of falcon's long nair and longer air-time; so what would you do? just kinda move around, except cover yourself with your sword?

also, what can you do to stop (or counter) his nair? it always seems to go past my fair

Marth has a LONG dash dance window. I usually dash out of the nair's reach and then pivot grab(not come back with a JC grab, but legitly pivot grab) or pivot side-b. You might wanna try
the side-b thing though cause it's easier to master.



QUESTION!
Marth's up-b can be angled, right? Does it matter if you smash the control stick to angle it as if you were doing a manual smash attack as opposed to just angling the stick after, saaay, from right to upper right after doing a floaty side-b(like side-b then up-b)?

 

[TheLake]

LUNAR ma man whaaats craackin?

Got to any tourneys lately?

And ACE is askin the right questions here...how exactly does the angle thing work? (cause i think im doing it but im not sure...)

 

[elvenarrow3000]

You'll definitely see it if you angle it. It really looks quite different. So just pick whatever works for you. I just smash it to the side, as soon as possible.

I try not to though, because I think the extra drift time makes up for the horizontal distance you get, and it's easier to ledge tech without.

You see it a lot on reverse Dolphin Slashes.

And yeah, nair does go through fair pretty easily. Stick to the ledge, make it harder for him to space, then pivot to punish.

 

[Ndot]

Sometimes if you know that he is going to nair, just run up to him right before the nair starts and forward b him and do whatever from there. Just dash dance a lot, thats what Elven has suggested. Sometimes I just stand there expecting a nair and just jab the tip of his nair to grab. But yea, his nair is really gay. T_T

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

i like to not give falcon breathing room. lots of falcons use their dash dance as a crutch of their game. they will fall back and dd in order to buy themselves some time to think up a plan. then they get tip-fsmashed for running away from me.

 

[Tee ay eye]

forward isn't that stupid

 

[Nø Ca$h]

LAKE! ur that dude that took a match off jman with ZELDA!
i might be going to a tourney in NJ on december 5th. hope to play more marth dittos sometime

 

[Scooach]

I'm trying to learn the Falco vs Marth MU and I was wondering what should I look out for the most, playing as Falco? Cause once my laser game loses momentum I start getting ***** pretty hard... And how should I DI to get out of his CGs?

 

[elvenarrow3000]

You can try no DI between twenty and thirty percent. If he doesn't do the pivot grab, you can shine them.

Watch out for gimps, use platforms to combo, if possible. Try to utilt more instead of shining.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

at 0% di in back of marth and he cant regrab

 

[BananaTrooper]

at 0% he'll fthrow chaingrab you

 

[KAOSTAR]

he cant get the regrab if you DI in from 0 percent.

Pretty much use your lasers well. and punish oos.

Work on comboing into fmash

 

[Teczer0]

If you DI in Marth can CG you with F-throw. But he'll miss the upthrow CG

If you DI away Marth can CG you with upthrow. But he'll miss the fthrow CG

Its a 50/50 guessing game at 0%. Just pick one and roll with it.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Its a 50/50 guessing game at 0%. Just pick one and roll with it.

lolol itz funi cuz u shud buffer rollz

On a more serious note, dair combos into fsmash at about... sixty to eighty, and, failing that, you can hit them with the front part of the bair instead to set up. Its hitbox is closer to you, so you can follow up more easily.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

i like fthrows

the majority of people fall into one of these two catagories
1) don't see it coming/fall into it
2) buffer a dodge

its pretty funny when you do it once, regrab, do it again and charge a fsmash tipper while they buffer their spot dodge....


too bad good players don't fall into either of those categories...

 

[Dark Sonic]

lolol itz funi cuz u shud buffer rollz

On a more serious note, dair combos into fsmash at about... sixty to eighty, and, failing that, you can hit them with the front part of the bair instead to set up. Its hitbox is closer to you, so you can follow up more easily.

You can also just tech chase him into an F-smash on pretty much any platform (or d-smash him on reaction if you're really afraid that you won't be able to read his tech <_<) Heck f-smash works on reaction for both tech rolls anyway, so you could just wait to f-smash if you think he'll do either roll.

It's a pain sometimes Q_Q

btw everyone should learn how to powershield lasers. It's gotten me so many free grabs and thrown off a lot of players games against me. Not to mention it makes powershielding melee attacks ridiculously easy in comparison, not that I get much from it since I constantly forget that I can attack out of it (though the extra sliding distance makes it harder to follow up with pressure I guess <_<. More shieldgrabs for me?)

lol Marth is technical?

On the flipside, powershields can be baited pretty well with empty SHLs (just land before the laser comes out, the sound will make them put their shield up on reaction quite a bit). If you know that they know that you can powershield consistantly (lol yomi layers), then you have to pay a lot more attention to their positioning when they're lasering. If they're going to land right on top of you after the laser, it's probably a bait and they want to land in shine/grab range after you put your shield up.

 

[Fabian]

cactus why are you quitting
you will be missed
you were in my 2nd pool at super champ combo
<3 you

 

[BanjoKazooiePro]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFzWKVBG7co

At 1:50-1:52 in this video, M2K gets a reverse DS off the ledge. When you're performing this off the ledge, do you just have to be right next to the character then use the move to make it connect?

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Yup. Get them with the initial hit box and stick a fork in them: they're done.

It's not hard to hit with and it's fairly common. I'm surprised you only just now saw this.

 

[BanjoKazooiePro]

Well, I've seen it a ton, I just never exactly knew how to position myself to hit people with it when reversed.

 

[KAOSTAR]

powershielding

Yea that kinda sucks when they start doing that to get inside your head.

I powershield pretty well so I tend to bite.

I started always attempting the ps at long range when they cant really punish me for shielding. I fade back with a fair/nair(or WD back) out of the shield as if I was shield stopping to keep the sheild lag down.

At close range, like they land right in front of me range, I sheild grab. If they do in fact laser I get the ps off and then the grab, and if they dont actually laser I sometimes still get the grab I wanted in the first place.

Works pretty well except when I miss the ps in the first place and the laser hits my shield.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Alternately, you could be on the offensive so they don't get the chance to play games like that. Or dash dance to make spacing it harder on them.

 

[Turazrok]

Can you tipper the DS?? It's got a really weird curve, so either I'm stupid, or I've been spacing wrong.

 

[TresChikon]

Can you tipper the DS?? It's got a really weird curve, so either I'm stupid, or I've been spacing wrong.

A regular DS's power doesn't come from you hitting with a tipper, but rather the sweetspot is more of a timing issue. The very beginning of the move is most powerful and is when you'd want it to connect.

do you just have to be right next to the character then use the move to make it connect?

With a reverse DS, you have to be up close to them.

The hitbox starts behind Marth which is why a reverse DS is so much more potent than a normal one because it hits them with the absolute beginning of the move whereas a regular DS will hit a bit later.

When you do a DS, your sword points backwards, but when you input the command to do a reverse, you turn around and your sword (which was originally pointing backwards) is then in contact with your opponent's hurtbox and deals a lot of ****.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

The knock back is the same forward or backward, it's just easier to land the strong one on the reverse.

Plus it looks cooler.

And you won't die if you do it off the stage.

 

[Signia]

really? where is the sweetspot for the normal dolphin slash?

also, for the RDS, to hit you have to be facing your opponent, and backturned DS will whiff, right?

One more thing: In a marth ditto I was getting frame-trapped few times with SHFFL fair (hits shield) -> RDS. Is this a viable tactic? Or was I just slow on the shield grab?

 

[TresChikon]

It's kind of like Fox's f-smash, there isn't a sweet-spot per se, but the beginning of the attack is ideal. And yes, a backturned DS will just whiff, i dunno why tho.

Fairs don't pillar, but spaced fairs shouldn't be SGable. If he's in range for a DS, then he's not spacing them and you should just grab him. If he's spacing them then WD away and start over.



And i guess RDS and DS are both the same strength, my mistake, it always seemed like RDS was stronger.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Dolphin Slash is pretty fast, and it's got invincibility frames, so the timing would be tight. I don't think it'd be frame perfect, though.

Frame one is the "sweet spot". I can find a video for you if you really care.

 

[TresChikon]

Oh, i thought he meant he was the one being pressured, not the other way around. Silly me.

I can find a video for you if you really care.

Nope not really, Fox is cooler.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Alternately, you could be on the offensive so they don't get the chance to play games like that. Or dash dance to make spacing it harder on them.

that really doesnt chance the battle. you still have to watch out for lasers.

you get interruped and take damage everytime you get hit so falco really controls the stage until he gets hit.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

TresChikon, I have nooo idea what you said =P

The thing about lasers is if you play it defensive, you're probably going to lose out. Sure, you can powershield, but there's nothing stopping them from just shining after every laser if you don't approach. Eventually, you're going to have to move in, and you might as well do that sooner than later.

It's about presence more than actual hits, I think. If you can be close enough so that the Falco thinks twice before lasering, you're in a much better position than if you were across the stage and you could possibly have control of the match. He shoots high, you go in with a dtilt or a dash attack or a grab after dashing under the laser and that leads to a grab which leads to heavy punishment. He shoots low, you go above and fair him, which leads to a grab.

Obviously, the anti-laser game isn't that simple, but it's the threat that gives him pause.

 

[Eon the Wolf]

I believe this is the best spot to ask;
My friend got me back into Melee, and since then I've been playing both actively
(Brawl: Marth, Wolf, Falcon, praciting IC
Melee: Marth, Falcon, thinkin of gettin back into Sheik n deciding between Ganondorf, Pichu, Roy, or IC.)
Besides the point though...My question is this;
He plays Link/Young Link INTENSELY, and he's been playing the series since the 1st, much like me. Since he's started playing me a month or 3 ago (After we got back into contact) he quickly went from being easy to beat with me being on just bout anyone to giving me a run for my money if I'm not playing seriously, even with Marth/Falcon. Now, while I'm amazed at his progress, there are a few issues I have, but of those only a few you guys can help me with; His grab game with link is actually VERY good, and he follows the uthrow with either a spam of utilts, or if he managed to get it off, a bomb thrown up and falling down as I'm thrown up (or bounce me off the ground with a dthrow if the bombs too close to use the 'laggy' uthrow animation), so my question(s) are this;

How do I avoid his rather good grab game?
Whats the best way to get out of his utilt lock if I was in stun lock and came in directly above him?
And last, but I didn't mention this; He is usually a very patient guy. How can I make HIM approach ME?
(Course, I had questions about his recent playstyle and usage of Sheik & Samus which I encouraged so he could learn Link alone may not always be the best choice, and that other characters may suit him just as well if not better...But the MU mostly solved them for me :3)
EDIT: I feel I should mention he's not the best at L-Cancelling yet, so he avoids dair like the plague, and he'll also follow the uthrow with an uair sometimes....Did I mention he's rather good at bomb jumping now, despite only knowing it a week or 2? x.x...Sometimes, I really regret showing him that lol...
EDIT2: Oh just remembered something I've been asking for awhile. I know I should use the search function, but I tried earlier and it wouldn't process the search. I wanted to know; I CAN SH on occasion. I know the principle, and how to do it....But I have trouble pulling it off consistently. Are there any good ways to practice doing it reliably...?

 

[elvenarrow3000]

L-cancel and you won't get grabbed. Simple as that. Failing that, cross up his shield with nairs or something. Or just don't attack his shield.

DI out of the utilt. Pretty simple, too.

You can't make him approach you. He has projectiles, you don't. Stay close to him, just out of grab range. Dash dance. If he tries to pull a bomb or throw a boomerang, run in and hit him. Otherwise, just hang tight.

Go into training mode and short hop. A lot. It takes time. You can practice short hopping with one of the four framers too. It helps.

That's Fox, Samus, ICs, Luigi (?), Pikachu, Pichu and Kirby. I think. Too lazy to check.

EDIT:

Oh and Sheik. Duh.

 

[Aesir]

I go falco against sheik.