Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[Fortress | Sveet]

Sveet vs John9Blue
Sveet vs Mundungu

 

[Strong Badam]

PewPewU is AMAZING oh my god.
Finally a marth that isn't just M2K but worse at everything
to be fair he got the most spacie-filled bracket a marth player could ask for, but he beat a lot of legitimate players. i have no idea how well he'd do against floatier characters.

cannot wait to see him perform at more & bigger tournaments.

 

[6VI6]

I thought he 3-0d Bladewise

 

[Blistering Speed]

PewPewU is AMAZING oh my god.
Finally a marth that isn't just M2K but worse at everything
to be fair he got the most spacie-filled bracket a marth player could ask for, but he beat a lot of legitimate players. i have no idea how well he'd do against floatier characters.

cannot wait to see him perform at more & bigger tournaments.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfx_KrcRZ98&feature=plcp

I'm genuinely aroused.

 

[knightpraetor]

hey i have a question, assuming someone moves in between falco's shine to JC grab, will they escape if they go for a wd backwards out of shield or a sh backwards into rising nair? i'm just curious how i should be dealing with shine JC grab. I feel like I often just use rolls if they are doing that and most of the time or wait for them to commit a bit and then move. if they refuse to commit then i also risk a move out of shield. however, i'm wondering whether there is any specific response i should be taking more if i know my opponent is going for JC grab a lot after shines. Immediately rolling is not too bad, but if there are better options I would like to know. I'm not actually totally sure whether an immediate sh back or wd out of of shield gets out. Even if it's a 1-2 frame window, if it's possible I'd like to know so i can work on it

 

[Divinokage]

I think all you can do is buffer a roll because shine has generally enough stun for the grab to link if you haven't buffered anything OOS.

 

[Dr Peepee]

hey i have a question, assuming someone moves in between falco's shine to JC grab, will they escape if they go for a wd backwards out of shield or a sh backwards into rising nair? i'm just curious how i should be dealing with shine JC grab. I feel like I often just use rolls if they are doing that and most of the time or wait for them to commit a bit and then move. if they refuse to commit then i also risk a move out of shield. however, i'm wondering whether there is any specific response i should be taking more if i know my opponent is going for JC grab a lot after shines. Immediately rolling is not too bad, but if there are better options I would like to know. I'm not actually totally sure whether an immediate sh back or wd out of of shield gets out. Even if it's a 1-2 frame window, if it's possible I'd like to know so i can work on it

It depends on how stale Falco's shine is in part(less shield stun then). If he's been on one stock for a while, then yeah try WD'ing OOS or maybe SH'ing.

Up-B OOS is as fast as Falco's shine OOS so that's a great choice as well.

Shield DI'ing away/maybe lightshielding the shine and then grabbing/attacking OOS is fairly reliable especially if you know he will grab.

I haven't looked at all framesafe options when shine is fresh though.

Buffer roll is cool if you're unsure.

 

[Deleted member]

wow kevin i thought you already had your own thread. i was almost expecting to see cactuar post in here too, but i know better.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Marth thread baby!

<3 Marth

ps hoped ur thing worked out man

 

[Divinokage]

It depends on how stale Falco's shine is in part(less shield stun then). If he's been on one stock for a while, then yeah try WD'ing OOS or maybe SH'ing.

Up-B OOS is as fast as Falco's shine OOS so that's a great choice as well.

Shield DI'ing away/maybe lightshielding the shine and then grabbing/attacking OOS is fairly reliable especially if you know he will grab.

I haven't looked at all framesafe options when shine is fresh though.

Buffer roll is cool if you're unsure.

I wonder about that, I don't think even jumping is safe when a Falco does Shine --> Grab.

 

[Bones0]

Peach is a *****.

 

[Sweet™]

Peach is a *****.

I play super campy against Peach. If she approaches, you can get multiple opportunities to punish her terribly. i.e. she goes in dash attack, or float cancels towards you with a nair or fair, just wd back and fsmash, and carry on the combo.

 

[Dr Peepee]

I wonder about that, I don't think even jumping is safe when a Falco does Shine --> Grab.

Depends on how stale the shine is and who's jumping.

Ordinarily I don't think I'd recommend it to most characters though.

 

[S l o X]

PP get some recorded matches of your Marth.

 

[knightpraetor]

anyone know how many frames of advantage falco gets after the shine if it's not staled and when it stales? i forgot how to calculate this stuff. i swear there used to be a good post by some fox main that literally laid out everything with pictures and a list of the frame data for all the normal falco shield pressure. but i can't find that post anymore

 

[Bones0]

anyone know how many frames of advantage falco gets after the shine if it's not staled and when it stales? i forgot how to calculate this stuff. i swear there used to be a good post by some fox main that literally laid out everything with pictures and a list of the frame data for all the normal falco shield pressure. but i can't find that post anymore

SCOTU's Thread (spacies pressure broken down frame by frame)

dphanna's Thread (hitlag & shield stun for the top chunk of the cast)

I highly recommend subscribing to both threads. To the point, Falco's shine has 10 frames of shield stun (including the 5 frames of hitlag). Shine lasts 3 frames (the first is on the first frame of hitlag though), which means he has to go through 2 frames after hitlag. The opponent has 5 frames of stun after hitlag, so that means Falco is +3.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Peach is a *****.

yhea, she has a major advantage vs marth for sure.

 

[knightpraetor]

ok, that seems useful, now the only question is assuming that a stale shine gives 1-2 frames of leeway for the opponent, does that mean that marth can actually get out of range of the shine grab. i guess this is something for testing, i just wanted to know if staled shine actually gives me more options on shield pressure..

also i forget what people decided about up b out of shield. I think i was told that up b comes out in 5 frames and doesn't require you to leave the ground with a jump before starting the move, so it comes out in 4 frames rather than 5 plus the jump time.

if i push up and b on the same frame while in shield will it start or do I need to jump then push b after one frame? cause if the latter is true i will use the jump button to help make the timing easier. sad thing is a long time ago i wasted significant time practicing up b in the vs falco matchup. but i'm pretty sure at that time i was assuming 4 (or was it 5 frames for marth) frames of startup on marth's jump and then pressed up b, thereby resulting in a 10 frame startup which sucks and makes it hard to properly gauge the technique

edit: also that page left out the frame advantage for peach's FC fair, but i think it varies between +4 and +2 based on height of the fair...is that right?

 

[Bones0]

ok, that seems useful, now the only question is assuming that a stale shine gives 1-2 frames of leeway for the opponent, does that mean that marth can actually get out of range of the shine grab. i guess this is something for testing, i just wanted to know if staled shine actually gives me more options on shield pressure..

also i forget what people decided about up b out of shield. I think i was told that up b comes out in 5 frames and doesn't require you to leave the ground with a jump before starting the move, so it comes out in 4 frames rather than 5 plus the jump time.

if i push up and b on the same frame while in shield will it start or do I need to jump then push b after one frame? cause if the latter is true i will use the jump button to help make the timing easier. sad thing is a long time ago i wasted significant time practicing up b in the vs falco matchup. but i'm pretty sure at that time i was assuming 4 (or was it 5 frames for marth) frames of startup on marth's jump and then pressed up b, thereby resulting in a 10 frame startup which sucks and makes it hard to properly gauge the technique

edit: also that page left out the frame advantage for peach's FC fair, but i think it varies between +4 and +2 based on height of the fair...is that right?

Staled shine does give you more options, but only really in Theory Bros. In actual matches, most Falco players do not land frame perfect shine-grabs every time so an extra frame or two won't make a big difference. From my experience, I would say buffered spot dodge and roll will almost always work (assuming you're hard shielding). Maybe I'm just bad at getting that little bit of extra speed on the grab in the heat of the moment though (PP seems to thing staling is more important; I literally ignore it entirely during matches). I almost always get Marth if he tries to jump though. I'm pretty sure it's at least partially because you can still grab him just after he leaves the ground.


You can't up-B OoS without jumping first. Just think about the mechanic. If you are shielding you can't neutral-B or down-B or side-B. Up-B works the same as those in every way except that you can start an up-B out of a jumpsquat (just like a grab) because otherwise you'd have to be frame perfect to up-B off the ground. lol So just use tap jump to JC out of shield, then press B the next frame. I wouldn't recommend it as a go-to solution vs. shine-grab attempts (it's only 1 frame faster than a simple shield grab), but if you notice them getting the grab out a little on the slow side and they are at a high % and/or near the ledge, it certainly has a great reward to make it worth trying.

Idk why there's no Peach data. That's weird. Peach can do pretty much whatever she wants when she fairs your shield regardless. -.-

 

[Niko45]

PPU is a beast, called that **** way way back.

Still cracks me up every time I hear about how there are no good marths.

 

[Beat!]

I already knew he was really good, but I had no idea he was THAT good. It honestly felt like a serious level-up from last time I watched him (whenever that was), though I guess that might just have been me not paying attention.

 

[S l o X]

LOL i just remember watching him v shroomed (a lot) to learn how to beat max when i first started playing melee / going to no johns.

going all marth at mass madness this weekend. i have to put in a lot of work and i am going to have to get through a lot of sheiks if i plan on making top 8. (kdj, dazwa, banks etc)

 

[knightpraetor]

hmm, i remember watching quite a few videos from a year ago where ppu wasn't nearly as solid. i think he has gotten quite a bit better recently. a year is a long time after all

 

[ShroudedOne]

PPU...he's looking like he might be the one. The one that Mew2King can be no longer...

Concerning Peach, she gets a +4 advantage MAX from fair when float cancelled (as she does from all of her aerials except for dair). The higher she's floating, the less the advantage is, obviously, since she's further away from the ground. But I don't know what the lowest amount of frame advantage she can get from a FC fair is. There are a lot of things to consider (when she fastfalls, how high she's floating [how the hell do you measure a float?], when she lets go during the aerial...)

The most important thing (from what Strong Bad tells me) is how many frames it takes for her to hit the ground after she hits the shield. But it's still really hard to give exact numbers.

Floating is the weirdest thing ever, huh?

 

[Dr Peepee]

PP get some recorded matches of your Marth.

I may throw something online soon. I've been playing Marth the past few days and it has felt great!

 

[Bones0]

PPU...he's looking like he might be the one. The one that Mew2King can be no longer...

Concerning Peach, she gets a +4 advantage MAX from fair when float cancelled (as she does from all of her aerials except for dair). The higher she's floating, the less the advantage is, obviously, since she's further away from the ground. But I don't know what the lowest amount of frame advantage she can get from a FC fair is. There are a lot of things to consider (when she fastfalls, how high she's floating [how the hell do you measure a float?], when she lets go during the aerial...)

The most important thing (from what Strong Bad tells me) is how many frames it takes for her to hit the ground after she hits the shield. But it's still really hard to give exact numbers.

Floating is the weirdest thing ever, huh?

The height of the float is irrelevant. All that matters is how long it takes you to land afterwards. The only reason the height seems to matter is because people tend to aerial higher when they started their float higher, but you can still hit fair super low to the ground even if you started it from quite a high float.


Lack of faith in M2K is disturbing. People act like he's washed up when he was a game from winning Zenith (albeit, a very epic game for PP >.>).

 

[ShroudedOne]

Isn't the float somewhat of a factor in how long it takes you to land afterwards?

And it's very discouraging to see M2K posting on the boards after Zenith about how he's done with Melee for at least a year because he can't win anything. It's one thing to come that close, it's another to just give up instead of trying to get closer.

 

[Hax]

just got back from hyperbolic time chamber training at cactuar's.. GG's man, worth the trip

and thanks for the controller

 

[Bones0]

Isn't the float somewhat of a factor in how long it takes you to land afterwards?

And it's very discouraging to see M2K posting on the boards after Zenith about how he's done with Melee for at least a year because he can't win anything. It's one thing to come that close, it's another to just give up instead of trying to get closer.

I mean I think the float affects stuff, but I'm pretty sure that even if they float at FH height, they can still FF soon/fast enough to hit a low fair. That's just how I envision it in my head. You've seen my Peach, so you should know to take any comments about what Peach can do with grain of salt (unless it's shield drop related ).

 

[Beat!]

Isn't the float somewhat of a factor in how long it takes you to land afterwards?

And it's very discouraging to see M2K posting on the boards after Zenith about how he's done with Melee for at least a year because he can't win anything. It's one thing to come that close, it's another to just give up instead of trying to get closer.

He always does that. The words kinda lose meaning after a while, because he always ends up at the next national anyway.

Not hating or anything, it's just hard to take it seriously when you've already seen him announce his retirement from melee, like, six times.

 

[Blistering Speed]

He always does that. The words kinda lose meaning after a while, because he always ends up at the next national anyway.

Not hating or anything, it's just hard to take it seriously when you've already seen him announce his retirement from melee, like, six times.

He's attending a 90+ entrant Melee tournament tomorrow in Japan. So, yeah.

 

[Beat!]

Ex actly.

 

[Bones0]

"I think I'm done with Melee guys."

*flies to Japan to play Melee*

Does Bombsoldier still play by any chance? :3

 

[Beat!]

Not sure if serious, but he went there for Brawl, and is only attending the melee tournament because some of the melee players there are friends with the guy (Toph) who paid for his plane ticket, and they wanted him to attend.

 

[Bones0]

Plus he could probably use the money.

 

[Beat!]

LOL

I feel bad for laughing at that. Well played, sir.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Yeah, I guess it's not anything to take seriously when he says that. I wish he'd just stop saying it. I don't feel like he's as invested anymore. But what do I know, I guess.

Bones, your Peach is maaaaaad jank. So you're on the right track.

Concerning what you said about FH float height, the move has to start before she cancels the float (obviously we all know this). I think it's possible to get the hitbox to hit the shield before the move is over, but whether or not it'd have the same frame advantage as a low float...I doubt it.

 

[S l o X]

I may throw something online soon. I've been playing Marth the past few days and it has felt great!

Would be appreciated. Playing Marth does feel pretty good.

 

[Van.]

m2k at at an all FD tournament

 

[Bones0]

I thought they still played DL too.