AceDudeyeah
Smash Ace
would a nair or an uncharged shield breaker have more knockback?
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy
- Thread starter Cactuar
- Start date
Jun.
Smash Lord
probably a tipped nair hit meaty
painlord k11
Smash Journeyman
for someone reason if i was marth against a shiek id counter with brinstar what's your guyses oppinions on this!!!
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
Say why you would counter with brinstar and give us some discussion points.
Fortress | Sveet
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
brinstar sux for marth. For example, when trying to return to the stage, marth must normally be in a position about a mile below it. when lava is there he must upb high or airdodge. Knowing this, its really easy to keep him away from the stage.
OverLord
Smash Ace
yeah, just pick brinstar and don't get hit
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
lol oh noes
Niko45
Smash Master
God, finally some real pro Marth talk in this thread. Not getting hit is underrated.
mers
Smash Ace
Pfff. Can't destroy people with Marth's amazing CC grab without getting hit.
OverLord
Smash Ace
this doesn't count as gettin' hit, it's like when you say "cmon hit me!" and then "now it's my turn"
that's Schwarzy
that's Schwarzy
I.B
Smash Lord
you guys are absolutely carzy
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
does he really show up if you say pichu....
*waits*
*waits*
OverLord
Smash Ace
<3 IB
you're amazing, I was cheering for you since your ditto against HBK at Pound 4
you're amazing, I was cheering for you since your ditto against HBK at Pound 4
<3 IB
I was cheering against you in your ditto against HBK at pound 4.
LMAO Ok more cereal stuff:
Does anyone use sword dance here? I tried adding it to my marth game recently but I have no idea whats a good follow up if I hit a Fox/falco or even hit their shield which was sorta the point.
I just feel like I sit there and a weird position. Should I just like... sit there and CC and wait for something then react?
Running around seems to kinda be counterproductive.
I was cheering against you in your ditto against HBK at pound 4.
LMAO Ok more cereal stuff:
Does anyone use sword dance here? I tried adding it to my marth game recently but I have no idea whats a good follow up if I hit a Fox/falco or even hit their shield which was sorta the point.
I just feel like I sit there and a weird position. Should I just like... sit there and CC and wait for something then react?
Running around seems to kinda be counterproductive.
mers
Smash Ace
Dammit I was hoping.
SwiftBass
Smash Hero
i only use if I know that it will send fox/falco away and safe from getting punished. I use it to ko sometimes too. never at early percents tho. If hit thier shield with the first 2 hits I make the third hit aim down, the shield stun seems weird on it. plus if u space it right you can bait a shield grab whiff. I also use the 4th hit aimed down(multi stab) if I RLY RLY need to get on offense. some ppl are caught off guard by the shield stun.
Europhoria
Smash Lord
80-120 on the spacies I tend to love it, knocks them off well. Higher % you have to delay the 3rd hit a bit. Even up to 130 sometimes it's ok. About 150+ the first 2 hits of it combo into u-tilt or f-smash or whatever on spacies, it's nice. Generally if you're dash dancing for a grab at that % you could also be dash dancing for this, even knocks them out of approaches sometimes and it's nice. They can CC it, but they never do cause they're more concerned with the grab (lol spacies CCing Marth at 80+)
It's super punishable if you hit their shield though, even if you do the 3rd hit down that pulls your body back. They can d-air OOS, or if they're fast enough/comfortable with the timing you're gonna eat a shine lol.
Its pretty good for spacing purposes, I just have no follow up after I space it I have no idea what I should try. I'm thinking jab, since they're shielding already.
And at those percents do you mean you hit with multiple dancing blades? And are the directions you choose relevant?
And at those percents do you mean you hit with multiple dancing blades? And are the directions you choose relevant?
Europhoria
Smash Lord
Yeah the 80-120 (tentatively like 130), M2K or someone might have more exact numbers for you but those are the % I tend to look at. (At about 120-125% back-throw to f-smash becomes a killing option, although DI dependent. That lasts for a long long *** time)
If they're in that range where you can get the 3rd hit then: Forward -> Neutral (I just stick with the standard hit, up requires even more delay on the 3rd hit and I'm afraid they'd get out with DI) -> Neutral. I love that ****.
150 and up you definitely need to do 2 regular hits, the up 1 is too di-able and they can avoid a follow up u-tilt or whatever.
I dunno how about I feel about it as a spacing tool, I've never liked it for that purpose. However, if they shield it ....hmmm, you can treat it like you've already jabbed them and just for a grab since they might wait in shield for more hits and if you go directly to an actual jab you'll get punished. Alternatively you could probably run back a bit and use the fact that they're in shield to space a late f-air/n-air on their shield into more stuff.
If they're in that range where you can get the 3rd hit then: Forward -> Neutral (I just stick with the standard hit, up requires even more delay on the 3rd hit and I'm afraid they'd get out with DI) -> Neutral. I love that ****.
150 and up you definitely need to do 2 regular hits, the up 1 is too di-able and they can avoid a follow up u-tilt or whatever.
I dunno how about I feel about it as a spacing tool, I've never liked it for that purpose. However, if they shield it ....hmmm, you can treat it like you've already jabbed them and just for a grab since they might wait in shield for more hits and if you go directly to an actual jab you'll get punished. Alternatively you could probably run back a bit and use the fact that they're in shield to space a late f-air/n-air on their shield into more stuff.
I'll try that for the side-b.
Its weird, I feel like it would place you at a advantageous position (given that you space it) because you're completely free to do whatever and they're forced to shield.
Running back is what I've been doing outta habit. I suppose I could try doing fair I might be able to react to stuff like roll with FF into grab/fsmash. I don't think you can shieldgrab a spaced jab if they're stuck in place like that... could be wrong though.
Its weird, I feel like it would place you at a advantageous position (given that you space it) because you're completely free to do whatever and they're forced to shield.
Running back is what I've been doing outta habit. I suppose I could try doing fair I might be able to react to stuff like roll with FF into grab/fsmash. I don't think you can shieldgrab a spaced jab if they're stuck in place like that... could be wrong though.
Europhoria
Smash Lord
You can't, you can run from the late f-air before they could grab or whatever. It's just nice to have that time where they're in shield so you can get the late f-air without risk of them stuff your move with a fox n-air while you wait for the end of your jump so you get the maximum advantage/profit possible.
I actually realized I do use on the spacies at higher % as a spacing tool because of the low lag and I feel like it's the only thing I have at those % that can combo them into death rather then me relying on a random f-smash/d-tilt/n-air or a grab -> correct tech read.
But I don't really like it against most other characters as a spacing tool, I feel like Fox isn't gonna ever hold down against me at those %s, but a Peach or other Marth/whatever is likely to be crouching in their dash games a lot more and the move itself isn't particularly high priority against a lot of characters. So even though it comes out fast it feels more punishable in those match ups/get stuffed by Sheik, Marth, Falcon, whatever. I remember at Mass Madness 14 I cc grabbed Cort's Marth when I was at like 130% in the ditto lol.
The 150+ to u-tilt/f-smash/n-air range I've found can run really high btw, even up to like 180-220.
I actually realized I do use on the spacies at higher % as a spacing tool because of the low lag and I feel like it's the only thing I have at those % that can combo them into death rather then me relying on a random f-smash/d-tilt/n-air or a grab -> correct tech read.
But I don't really like it against most other characters as a spacing tool, I feel like Fox isn't gonna ever hold down against me at those %s, but a Peach or other Marth/whatever is likely to be crouching in their dash games a lot more and the move itself isn't particularly high priority against a lot of characters. So even though it comes out fast it feels more punishable in those match ups/get stuffed by Sheik, Marth, Falcon, whatever. I remember at Mass Madness 14 I cc grabbed Cort's Marth when I was at like 130% in the ditto lol.
The 150+ to u-tilt/f-smash/n-air range I've found can run really high btw, even up to like 180-220.
Fair doesn't sound like too bad of an option actually, I really wanna try that.
And personally, I'd do this to peach her OOS game is great but that far away she really can't do too much.
As peach I hate being stuck at that range, I try to WD OOS and run away everytime because it feels like you're too far away and would whiff every aerial you could throw.
You might be right about it being not so good vs marth, personally i wouldn't risk it since CCing the ditto is usually so advantageous for you in more ways than one and at any point in the game.
I dunno, I wanna try messing around with it more. I feel like it has a lot of potential for placing everything back into neutral state at the worst assuming they shield it.
And personally, I'd do this to peach her OOS game is great but that far away she really can't do too much.
As peach I hate being stuck at that range, I try to WD OOS and run away everytime because it feels like you're too far away and would whiff every aerial you could throw.
You might be right about it being not so good vs marth, personally i wouldn't risk it since CCing the ditto is usually so advantageous for you in more ways than one and at any point in the game.
I dunno, I wanna try messing around with it more. I feel like it has a lot of potential for placing everything back into neutral state at the worst assuming they shield it.
Europhoria
Smash Lord
I can see why you'd do it against Peach because her range out of shield is horrible but if they CC it you get hit for it since it drags your body forwards, more importantly to me anyways it just gets ****ed by the turnip so I've always avoided it.
Could you side-b into CC a hit if they CCC?
Europhoria
Smash Lord
They'd probably down smash you on reflex, but you probably would have the time to CC
I suppose I could test that out too.
I swear I wish I was a marth main.
I swear I wish I was a marth main.
Europhoria
Smash Lord
Sheik > Marth's world, every time I see a Marth/Pikachu/Ganon/random character do well I can't help but feel "What if they had to face David in losers, and gotten 25th, would they still get the hype they do?". I think I need to switch mains to Fox. I'm proud of IB for getting his Falco to where it is, he just needs to start using it in more tournaments.
I really used to like having a marth though.
When I used him more frequently for tournaments I was able to limit my opponent's CP stages and strikes.
And he does really well on a lot of neutrals so its like >____<.
But yea, back to the topic. Marth/spacie is a good character mix imo.
When I used him more frequently for tournaments I was able to limit my opponent's CP stages and strikes.
And he does really well on a lot of neutrals so its like >____<.
But yea, back to the topic. Marth/spacie is a good character mix imo.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Haley, I want to sleep with Hazz.
How can I go about accomplishing this?
Oh yeah Marth is a character in SSBM for the Gamecube. And Cactuar knows everything about him.
How can I go about accomplishing this?
Oh yeah Marth is a character in SSBM for the Gamecube. And Cactuar knows everything about him.
Europhoria
Smash Lord
I agree, I think alternatively to a Fox or Falco you could just throw Jiggs at Sheik. All are reasonable answers.
Straight Marth is frustrating, playing him in teams also feels depressing sometimes. Against double technical Fox I feel so trapped/doomed for like the whole match
Straight Marth is frustrating, playing him in teams also feels depressing sometimes. Against double technical Fox I feel so trapped/doomed for like the whole match
Aesir
Smash Master
Agreed I honestly feel like marth is a very limited character at this point.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I own Imadh's Falco's soul.
;]
;]
Europhoria
Smash Lord
You're gay David.
I can love Marth in teams though, I just need PKM's puff as my team mate or something. Go restcleave go
I can love Marth in teams though, I just need PKM's puff as my team mate or something. Go restcleave go
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
I feel like Marth can do well in teams providing your teammate is excellent at being aggressive and decent at 2v1.
If you can basically wall/holdstock, and then just hold off your opponent when your teammate edgeguards it seems ok. But your basically banking on that your teammate is better 1 v 1 vs whoever your up against.
I think the only dependable teammate for Marth nowadays is Fox. Most Falcon's play campy nowadays (better in singles, not so sure about doubles) and that defensive quality causes problems. Same with Sheik. Both Falcon and Sheik have potential though, I just think the current metagame singles style is hindering the team mindsets. I feel Jiggs is too slow along with Marth being slowish causing too many 2v1 setups vs faster teams.
Falco might do well with Marth but I feel like Falco just has better teammate options.
If you can basically wall/holdstock, and then just hold off your opponent when your teammate edgeguards it seems ok. But your basically banking on that your teammate is better 1 v 1 vs whoever your up against.
I think the only dependable teammate for Marth nowadays is Fox. Most Falcon's play campy nowadays (better in singles, not so sure about doubles) and that defensive quality causes problems. Same with Sheik. Both Falcon and Sheik have potential though, I just think the current metagame singles style is hindering the team mindsets. I feel Jiggs is too slow along with Marth being slowish causing too many 2v1 setups vs faster teams.
Falco might do well with Marth but I feel like Falco just has better teammate options.
Rubyiris
Smash Hero
falco marth is a baller team, btw. marth says "falco, you have 7 stocks, and a means of assistance/assisted recovery, go nuts."
Niko45
Smash Master
Fox and Falcon provide the offense needed to work with Marth, but I still think Sheik works best with Marth. They each control zones better than just about anybody in teams and they don't really get in each others way, particularly on edgeguards. All of Marth's moves serve Sheik up to fair them off stage and they both edgeguard/control space really well to be able to finish people once they get them offstage.
TheCrimsonBlur
Smash Master
Nobody is loving on that old school c-stick team. Marth/Peach all dai. Falling fair to knock people back into dsmash is awesome.