I disagree with ICs beating Marth. I think Marth has slight advantage still. M2K is just... I dunno. Tai still doesn't seem to get it. Even without playing Wobbles for a while, I think I still got it down.
I would say that ICs are one of Marth's best top 8 match-ups still, but since everyone else is struggling, I'm convinced it is 60-40, but I can see it being 55-45 from my most recent matches with Fly from Nice Shot Hugo.
Choknater is correct. Forward air is super safe, neutral air a little less safe. Forward throw ***** IC's syncs and pummels for interrupts if you see nana charging stuff. Marth can get out of down throw down air a bit easier and the regrab SEEMS a little bit harder near ledges. Don't do random forward smashes, down tilt is amazing, and I think Marth is a bit of a soft counter for ICs. The hard part is just watching for those super quick down smashes and back airs. You can get grabbed, just make sure Nana isn't there to **** you. Getting around the IC's edgeguards is where you'll probably have the most trouble outside of their little wall of blocks and blizzards. It's not even the difficulty as much as the pressure if you mess up, lol.
I think I need to spam this article more.
http://samuelohickey.blogspot.com/2011/06/tier-lists.html
@DruggedFox - You can say whatever you want as long as you support it. You can be wrong, you can be right, and things can change. I just don't think we should be so biased and say that Marths are just doing it wrong, he's still top tier cuz M2K was soooo good in 2007-09. History gives us a lot of information, but across the board, match-ups have undoubtedly changed. Some worse, some better. I went around and played Ka Master back in the day, and I've observed Eddie right now, I won't be surprised if Luigi starts making more splashes in the near future.
Like Niko and Max said, Marth has advantage, but I don't think it's free. It could be because we haven't explored everything against the low tiers, it could be that they just finally started scaling because the game is 9.6 years old. Whatever the cause, I can respect an opinion as long as it's supported. I'd like to persuade everyone to see things my way, but that's just not realistic. I'll do what I can, say what I have to say, the rest is up to you guys. All of the non-Marth mains can even be right about everything and Marth is a completely broken, unpunishable, ****-machine, and all Marth players are just scrubs, but we're still not seeing Marth win internationals consistently.
Our best Marth player only goes Marth on Fox and mirrors. I'm just a washed-up never-was that showed up to an international with some 2007 mindgames and a couple of edeguards on Falco and places top 10 at a major tourney for the first time in 4 years. The next Marth forerunners are completely up in the air, but will still likely lose against the superpowers of Mango, Hbox, PP, and Armada. The next best Marths are also probably going to lose to S2J, Wobbles, Axe, and Shroomed, too. So umm, Marth mains have a lot of work to do to get up there.
My matches with Hax-
I don't know if Hax beat M2K in friendlies or something, or he just owns local Marths like Tec0, HBK, and Jesiah... but I know that IB has A LOT of experience in that match-up. AfroChris is a pretty good Falcon, maybe not yet top 5 great North American Falcons like Hax, but I know that if I had someone like him or GG7 to play with more often, then I'd be a lot better at the match-up too. Enough to at least win against random Falcons from the Midwest (Shoutouts to ORLY).
I'm pretty sure I irritated Hax when I played him with my Mewtwo. I yelled at his friend midmatch to stop coaching, Hax convinced himself that I was playing hella gay even though he's playing the character with one of the fastest movements in the game and kills my character at 80% EVERY stock. Yeah, I approached him VERY carefully, he tried to approach me carefully, and I won very carefully.
I didn't bite on his style as much as I might against other Falcons which is probably why I did so well even when I went Marth on him on YS the next match. I'm not ashamed to even think I got lucky in that match. I need to watch the video, but it's my ABSOLUTE WORST and most inconsistent match-up, and I think I just made good calls on my edgeguards and his approaches. The ONLY thing I know I can do against Falcon is tech chase him indefinitely, he's usually just difficult for me to react to as a reaction-based player, so catching him is a problem for me. As well as being much better than the majority of players really close to me... I tend to not get hit very often, so you can obviously tell my survival skills like DIing and recovery aren't very good.
For whatever reason, I overcame the match-up against Hax,
I wouldn't be surprised if he would've also lost to Dart if they played though. I dunno... I used a little bit of psychological warfare and got lucky I guess. We'll see how he does in the future. I'm pretty sure S2J would've **** on me if I played him instead though.
