Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[Yingyay]

Umm the whole problem with footstooling is the fact that it happens by accident most of the time. So adding it to a buffer is kinda like giving players an accidental advantage over players that dont wanna accidentally step on people's heads.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Taunt to Footstool would be golden. X button = UR2SLOWFootstool.

And the problem with making Skyworld's bottom platform invincible is that it still has a hurtbox. When you hit it, you still get hitlag, and certain attacks get absorbed by the floor. Tink even bounces with his dair.

Skyworld's just a horrible stage, sadly.

 

[goodoldganon]

We made the Flame Choke Untechable, I fail to see how we can't make footstools untechable, bringing back their usefulnesses.

 

[stingers]

Don't make footstools untechable...all the stupid infinites will come back.

 

[FrozenHobo]

well if they are tech-able could we look at making the ICs be able to footstool each other? just as an experiment..... *cough*

 

[Swordplay]

We made the Flame Choke Untechable, I fail to see how we can't make footstools untechable, bringing back their usefulnesses.

Don't make footstools untechable...all the stupid infinites will come back.

Yup, The Ice climbers infinite says HI

 

[FrozenHobo]

lol hobbling

 

[stingers]

Not to mention...that new Pikachu infinite, the Shiek Footstool thing, ZSS and Falcon's infinites on ROB...etc etc

 

[FrozenHobo]

seriously, being able to have the ICs footstool each other would be pretty sweet.

footstool nana -> rising blizzard

or have her footstool popo -> blizzard/ice block/fair spike.

would allow a lot more control and let them set up some wicked stuff.

 

[MasterRaichu]

We made the Flame Choke Untechable, I fail to see how we can't make footstools untechable, bringing back their usefulnesses.

Footstools are not meant to be useful. They're a dumb technique built by a team of hack programmers trying to make Smash Bros into a game where a 5-year-old can compete with a melee pro, along the same lines as random tripping and level hazards that kill instantly. It is NOT a legitimate "technique", and any attempt to make it useful in any way is a waste of programming time.

There is no reason why a game that relies on keeping your opponent off the edge should ever give the guarding player 100% opportunity to win by just simply jumping on their head. It's just BAD DESIGN on the part of the Brawl development team -- the same BAD DESIGN that made meta-knight so overpowered. If anything, you should be doing whatever you can to REMOVE footstooling completely, if you want a legitimate game you can call "tournament worthy". Let's do more to focus on solidifying the fundamental techniques of Smash Bros that the player has control over, rather than focus on whether or not you're able to stomp on your opponent in mid-air and gain a jump from it, which is annoying at best.

I can't believe that anyone would call this a "technique", let alone something that could be "useful". If you're rooting for this to stay in, you're rooting for a terrible game of smash.

 

[Diddyknight]

There handy every once in a while. Being able to footstool is nice. As Frozen said before::
--------------------------------------------------------

"seriously, being able to have the ICs footstool each other would be pretty sweet.

footstool nana -> rising blizzard

or have her footstool popo -> blizzard/ice block/fair spike.

would allow a lot more control and let them set up some wicked stuff."
----------------------------------------------

Overall more control would be nice and it wouldnt set up any locks. the only way of which i can think of is the backthrow to footstool to lock, but due to the gravity change, i doubt it would work(then again >.>)

More control would be nice :3

 

[Wingflier]

Footstools are not meant to be useful. They're a dumb technique built by a team of hack programmers trying to make Smash Bros into a game where a 5-year-old can compete with a melee pro, along the same lines as random tripping and level hazards that kill instantly. It is NOT a legitimate "technique", and any attempt to make it useful in any way is a waste of programming time.

There is no reason why a game that relies on keeping your opponent off the edge should ever give the guarding player 100% opportunity to win by just simply jumping on their head. It's just BAD DESIGN on the part of the Brawl development team -- the same BAD DESIGN that made meta-knight so overpowered. If anything, you should be doing whatever you can to REMOVE footstooling completely, if you want a legitimate game you can call "tournament worthy". Let's do more to focus on solidifying the fundamental techniques of Smash Bros that the player has control over, rather than focus on whether or not you're able to stomp on your opponent in mid-air and gain a jump from it, which is annoying at best.

I can't believe that anyone would call this a "technique", let alone something that could be "useful". If you're rooting for this to stay in, you're rooting for a terrible game of smash.

QFT.

Footstooling, like many other aspects of vBrawl, is just a constant reminder of how bad and non-competition oriented the game was created. Up there with tripping and Metaknight.

Instead of trying to make it more "skill-based", it should probably just be removed. It is not necessary, happens on accident more often than not, and while it can be good for a few laughs here and there, so was tripping...

I don't know why you're arguing about this in the first place, but I do know that you need to shut up.

And you need to learn some manners. I can't help that you are a pimply face 17 year old virgin with no girlfriend or social life, but you don't need to take that out on me in a smash thread because I have a different opinion than you. Every post I make is an attempt to contribute to the community, and whether you agree with me or not, you better dam.n well respect me and not tell me to "shut up". It was unwarranted and shows your lack of character.

If you had read my post carefully, you would have seen that I was referring to a spike as something that can actually kill. Fox's d-air is technically considered a spike, but I have only seen it actually kill somebody (without killing him in the process) once out of thousands of games. So no, I was not talking about the technical definition of a spike, I was talking about a consistently useful attack (preferably an aerial) that can kill somebody outright; not set them up for combos.

You even mentioned yourself that the spike you proposed for sonic (on his u-smash), would be completely situational and easy to avoid or DI out of. Therefore, I would not consider it a spike in the literal sense, only the technical sense.

Maybe next time, you can spend a little less time thinking you know everything, and a little more time realizing that you can't just take everything at face value.

Wing

 

[FrozenHobo]

QFT.

Footstooling, like many other aspects of vBrawl, is just a constant reminder of how bad and non-competition oriented the game was created. Up there with tripping and Metaknight.

Instead of trying to make it more "skill-based", it should probably just be removed. It is not necessary, happens on accident more often than not, and while it can be good for a few laughs here and there, so was tripping...

Wing

rebuttal:

I'm saying that taunt doesn't do anything else in the air, so if you were to use it as a footstool button, it wouldn't interfere with anything. The taunt button would act the same as always when you're on the ground, but when you're in the air, if you're near your opponent, you have the ability to footstool.

The buffer scale would be set up so that 0-100 and 200-300 give equivalent buffer (ie. 10% and 210% are the same thing in terms of giving you 1 buffer), but one would have the original footstool settings and the other would have it mapped to taunt.

Seeing as we're rather short on coders atm, and this being such a low priority code, I wouldn't expect that it'd be done anytime soon, but it would be cool to eventually have.

we already have a solution. you don't have you have footstool if you don't want. stop *****ing and read some of the pages.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

I'm sorry, but I find footstooling highly useful to my purposes.

ZSS and other tether folk - they'd have quite a few more dead recoveries without footstool.
Zelda - flub dair to footstool edgeguard
Sheik/Peach - ground footstool to Dair

Those just happen to be my own characters and I'm sure others can use it tactically. An underused team tactic is to footstool your teammate to chase someone too high for your own jumps to reach. If you want to not get footstooled offstage the only thing you need to do is protect yourself with an attack animation of any kind, or an airdodge. You have reasonable means to prevent yourself from being footstooled if you really don't to.

I would very vocal about them being removed, because I've grown to actually know how to use them. It's also an underrated team tactic for chasing in the air.

 

[Wingflier]

we already have a solution. you don't have you have footstool if you don't want. stop *****ing and read some of the pages.

And I disagree with your solution. Thanks but no thanks.

 

[FrozenHobo]

And I disagree with your solution. Thanks but no thanks.

why? it lets YOU play without ****ing footstools, but those that like using them can still do them. its a fair solution given that most people complain about how they accidently initiate the footstool and the problems the accident causes rather than the actual technique itself. you're being selfish wanting it removed simply because you don't like it. other people actually use footstools. its a community project, not a wing project. if you want your own codeset then make it yourself.

additionally, the choice to have a jump with FSJ and one without it alleviates the 'randomness' by giving the player the choice.

 

[BeepBopRobot]

I can't help that you are a pimply face 17 year old virgin with no girlfriend or social life

You know whats ironic about this temper tantrum?

And you need to learn some manners.

The sentence you said before it. Im seriously loling here.


But hey if you think those sentences are relevant to the topic at hand...

Now then about the buffer idea for FSJ.

This would mean that if i set my buffer to no FSJ, it would make it so i could never FSJ that round? Id rather it were just *long explanation of how you can map the function to a button* to either x or y. This way, if you could use the x button to do a non FSJ jump, and the y button to do a FSJ jump, or vice versa depending on which you wanted.

 

[XSilvenX]

I'm saying that taunt doesn't do anything else in the air, so if you were to use it as a footstool button, it wouldn't interfere with anything. The taunt button would act the same as always when you're on the ground, but when you're in the air, if you're near your opponent, you have the ability to footstool.

The buffer scale would be set up so that 0-100 and 200-300 give equivalent buffer (ie. 10% and 210% are the same thing in terms of giving you 1 buffer), but one would have the original footstool settings and the other would have it mapped to taunt.

Seeing as we're rather short on coders atm, and this being such a low priority code, I wouldn't expect that it'd be done anytime soon, but it would be cool to eventually have.

Hellz yeah. This sounds pretty epic.

An underused team tactic is to footstool your teammate to chase someone too high for your own jumps to reach.

At the expense of stunning your teammate and having him potentially KO'd as a result right? I dunno but I don't think any good player will do that in a teams match, especially since most characters' jumps suffice in terms of chasing for combos...I guess if you wanna be fancy though it's cool.

If you want to not get footstooled offstage the only thing you need to do is protect yourself with an attack animation of any kind, or an airdodge.

Both of those options will force you to sacrifice air since ad'ing or attacking will take up precious time which might cause you to not be able to recover in time if you're offstage. Regardless you're only seeing it from the defensive perspective of the argument...you really should read out on the pages you missed. A lot of good amazing points were made as to why some people didn't want them..

BUT, in the end it doesn't matter so I guess I'm just disputing for the hell of it since a solution in regards to this issue has already been established.

 

[timothyung]

Why don't just take my suggestion, keep Jump as "Jump/Footstool", and set one of the taunts to "Footstool only", and the other as "Jump Only". Even if you use the buffer solution, you still have to change the controls anyway.

 

[XSilvenX]

Why don't just take my suggestion, keep Jump as "Jump/Footstool", and set one of the taunts to "Footstool only", and the other as "Jump Only". Even if you use the buffer solution, you still have to change the controls anyway.

The % solution is pretty much the same thing. In essence you get to choose whether or NOT you want to footstool.

 

[Arkaether]

Wingflier, leaf wouldn't have said that if you made valid points, good arguments, logical reasoning, or provided evidence that supported your claims. In other words, he was pretty justified in saying that.

And for all the people whining about how FSJs contribute absolutely nothing toward skilled or competitive play, think harder about it. The only reason you're whining about it is because it is currently far too easy to activate it, oftentimes by mistake. By mapping it to a separate button, you would actually solve the "mistake" issues, removing the random factor (which is the only argument for tripping, as you don't see anyone complaining about tripping moves) and allowing players to use it in specific situations for a specific advantage, much like ATs.

And, of course, any argument that footstools are "broken" or "easy" is simply silly. The area of effect for a FSJ is huge, yes, but not THAT huge. They telegraph their actions by jumping out towards you; there is no reason why you should get hit unless you're in lag or unable to do anything, in which case any other move, such as an aerial, would work perfectly fine. Complaining about being hit by a FSJ is like complaining about being hit by Jiggly's autocancelled uair; you literally have to sit there and take it intentionally in order to get hit by it. Any situation in which a FSJ is guaranteed means that the opponent can just as easily use a variety of other options, most of which are better, such as a powerful aerial, a spike, Rest, etc. Hell, the FSJ spike is nowhere near as powerful as the majority of spikes that characters have.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

You can footstool someone's (your teammate's) shield without them going into any stun if that's actually going to be an issue. The better chaser takes the initiative. At any rate, you don't fully understand how footstools work or how they can be used.

Secondly, if AD'ing or using an aerial (or recovery move) actually puts you so dangerously low that you're past your own capacity to recover, then you're already in a disadvantageous position through some method that the footstool itself had nothing to do with. Recovery options in this game are great as they are.

 

[XSilvenX]

You can footstool someone's (your teammate's) shield without them going into any stun if that's actually going to be an issue. The better chaser takes the initiative. At any rate, you don't fully understand how footstools work or how they can be used.

Oh really...so if I don't exactly agree with your use of footstool then I can't possibly understand how they work right...? LOL alright that makes sense. Good logic there actually, and way to prove how much of a condescending person you are. You must have a lot of friends..

 

[shanus]

Oh really...so if I don't exactly agree with your use of footstool then I can't possibly understand how they work right...? LOL alright that makes sense. Good logic there actually, and way to prove how much of a condescending person you are. You must have a lot of friends..

whoa there, escalating much? Drop the personal ****, keep it to footstools.

 

[JCaesar]

I actually think the best method for dealing with this right now would be to use the buffer scale. Someone mentioned this before about using 0-100 as one set of buffer, and 200-300 as a second set, where they each differ on some other setting. In this case, that setting could be whether footstool is mapped to taunt or not.

Noooez, that was my idea for optional auto-jabs...

 

[Arkaether]

Oh really...so if I don't exactly agree with your use of footstool then I can't possibly understand how they work right...? LOL alright that makes sense. Good logic there actually, and way to prove how much of a condescending person you are. You must have a lot of friends..

There's quite a bit of difference between "hey dude, you're holding the gun wrong, you haven't put in a bullet, that's not the trigger, and it's not even assembled completely" and "LOLOLOLOL UR GUN IS WEAK SO U SUCK LOLOLOLOL POINT IT AT URSELF PLOX".

Ryoko is using the former. All you're doing is making yourself look like a douche for attacking someone out of the blue for no legitimate reason.

 

[XSilvenX]

There's quite a bit of difference between "hey dude, you're holding the gun wrong, you haven't put in a bullet, that's not the trigger, and it's not even assembled completely" and "LOLOLOLOL UR GUN IS WEAK SO U SUCK LOLOLOLOL POINT IT AT URSELF PLOX".

Ryoko is using the former. All you're doing is making yourself look like a douche for attacking someone out of the blue for no legitimate reason.

Who said I was a nice guy?

Anyway, I only shoot back when shot at and saying and him saying I don't know what I'm talking about as if footstooling is some highly advanced pro-only technique that only he can fathom is pretty annoying...but whatever. I'm not on here for e-friends, YOU should know that by now.

whoa there, escalating much? Drop the personal ****, keep it to footstools.

For the sake of wasting thread space and people's time with needless bickering I will try to dismiss further troll attempts.

 

[Magus420]

Oh really...so if I don't exactly agree with your use of footstool then I can't possibly understand how they work right...? LOL alright that makes sense.

You're right, that doesn't make sense at all.

An underused team tactic is to footstool your teammate to chase someone too high for your own jumps to reach.

At the expense of stunning your teammate and having him potentially KO'd as a result right?

|
V

You can footstool someone's (your teammate's) shield without them going into any stun if that's actually going to be an issue. The better chaser takes the initiative. At any rate, you don't fully understand how footstools work or how they can be used.

This, however, makes more sense.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Did we not already come up with a solution.
In any event were not removing Footstool jumping from the game, there is no random integer with footstooling as is tripping. It's not comical bull****, tripping is comical bull****, it's said on the god **** dojo that it has strategic value just in case people THOUGHT it was useless. Sure most character's dont need it, but we arent or at least should not remove it.
We found a possible solution with the buffering idea, and other solutions to peoples problem's can be thought up, but it's not getting removed.

and for any more "Remove it"
If the FAQ is to be taken as truth.

Brawl+ is a project pioneered by the smash community with the intent to make Brawl a deeper, more competitive game. With codes compiled by the hard working hackers that created them, the player has access to codes which can do anything from disabling tripping to bringing back combos. This does not mean, however, that we are trying to copy Melee, the game will still feel like Brawl, but your options will greatly expand.

Removing FSJ does not expand on the game, removing tripping allowed for continuous play without a random integer interefering. Not the same thing.

 

[Smith]

Their is a line between being "not kind", "mean" and "being a ****".


Which do you think you crossed?

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

Who said I was a nice guy?

Anyway, I only shoot back when shot at and saying and him saying I don't know what I'm talking about as if footstooling is some highly advanced pro-only technique that only he can fathom is pretty annoying...but whatever. I'm not on here for e-friends, YOU should know that by now.



For the sake of wasting thread space and people's time with needless bickering I will try to dismiss further troll attempts.

Yup, that was definitely out of self-defense.
GJ.

Footstrolling (in the rain) is cool. I like Footstool > Knee.

 

[Arkaether]

For the sake of wasting thread space and people's time with needless bickering I will try to dismiss further troll attempts.

Good logic there actually, and way to prove how much of a condescending person you are. You must have a lot of friends..

*cough*

10ironies

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Move on now guys >.>
Which character needs some talking on?

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

O teh noes.

Post invalid.

Chrono: Meta Knight. :O

But really, it's around the low guise.

 

[kupo15]

Did we not already come up with a solution.
In any event were not removing Footstool jumping from the game, there is no random integer with footstooling as is tripping. It's not comical bull****, tripping is comical bull****, it's said on the god **** dojo that it has strategic value just in case people THOUGHT it was useless. Sure most character's dont need it, but we arent or at least should not remove it.
We found a possible solution with the buffering idea, and other solutions to peoples problem's can be thought up, but it's not getting removed.

and for any more "Remove it"
If the FAQ is to be taken as truth.

Removing FSJ does not expand on the game, removing tripping allowed for continuous play without a random integer interefering. Not the same thing.

FS may not be the same kind of random as tripping but its still random to an extent not to mention arbitrarily removes options from the player. Its random in the sense that even if you do go for a footstool and space it correctly, you can not be certain it will work because the only time you can footstool is if they are in hitstun or idle. If they are attacking it won't work. So if you want to space DJs within footstool distance, then you are taking a chance that you will footstool accidentally. There is absolutely no reason why you must perform a footstool if you want to do a DJ instead. This removes options and control from the player despite being the one to press the button at that time.

But we have our solution with the buffer scale. If you don't ever want to footstool then you shouldn't be forced into the possibility of that accident occurring do to poor implementation and if you want to FS, be my guest. Sound good?

And also, if the whole mapping footstool doesn't work, then the option should be 0-100 FS, 100-200 No footstooling at all.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

FS may not be the same kind of random as tripping but its still random to an extent not to mention arbitrarily removes options from the player. Its random in the sense that even if you do go for a footstool and space it correctly, you can not be certain it will work because the only time you can footstool is if they are in hitstun or idle. If they are attacking it won't work. So if you want to space DJs within footstool distance, then you are taking a chance that you will footstool accidentally. There is absolutely no reason why you must perform a footstool if you want to do a DJ instead. This removes options and control from the player despite being the one to press the button at that time.

There is no extent, now let it die.


In other news...
Question.
What's the standard of balance in Brawl+

 

[kupo15]

Yup, buffer option then. Glad you agree...........

 

[XSilvenX]

Yup, buffer option then. Glad you agree...........

Hell must be freezing over because I actually agree with Kupo..


0-100 - Regular with footstooling

110-200 - No footstooling at all (hopefully)


Sounds really good actually.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Yup, that sounds good. I usually go 150+ with the handicap, so i like the idea of no footstooling.

 

[Yanoss1313]

Taunt to Footstool would be golden. X button = UR2SLOWFootstool.

And the problem with making Skyworld's bottom platform invincible is that it still has a hurtbox. When you hit it, you still get hitlag, and certain attacks get absorbed by the floor. Tink even bounces with his dair.

Skyworld's just a horrible stage, sadly.

i know this is a page or two late, but i thought it worth a mention.... would it be possible to remove the bottom platform's hurtbox all together? (instead of making it unbreakable)

if so, i think that would solve all those issues, (although, it's a double sided sword for Tink, hurts his Dair, but kinda gives him one hell of an instakill... provided it's not teched >.>)

EDIT:

I'm sorry, but I find footstooling highly useful to my purposes.

ZSS and other tether folk - they'd have quite a few more dead recoveries without footstool.
Zelda - flub dair to footstool edgeguard
Sheik/Peach - ground footstool to Dair

Those just happen to be my own characters and I'm sure others can use it tactically. An underused team tactic is to footstool your teammate to chase someone too high for your own jumps to reach. If you want to not get footstooled offstage the only thing you need to do is protect yourself with an attack animation of any kind, or an airdodge. You have reasonable means to prevent yourself from being footstooled if you really don't to.

I would very vocal about them being removed, because I've grown to actually know how to use them. It's also an underrated team tactic for chasing in the air.

also very late, i know, but i thought i'd mention, i find FS usefull on marth because FS > Dair totally ensures a tipper... ie: a spike