Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[JCaesar]

You people make me sad.

You can only footstool when you are right on top of someone. You can only be footstooled when you are right below someone. If you "accidentally" footstool/get footstooled, it is only because you either weren't paying attention or you don't have enough experience to know when to expect a footstool.

It's not some random bull**** like tripping. It can only happen in these specific situations. Changing the input because you don't pay close enough attention and don't know when to expect it is a crappy argument. A more legit argument could be that sometimes you just want to do a regular 2nd jump when you're right above someone, but more often than not, footstooling is much more advantageous.

I don't think this merits a more complicated and less intuitive input for footstooling, especially if you're forced to airdodge if you miss, which would highly discourage ever going for a footstool gimp offstage. I'm much less against the double-tap idea though. Just make it so you can only footstool within like 10 frames after a double jump and we don't even have to change anything else.

I would hate to lose this interesting technique. If anything, footstooling should be buffed to encourage people to learn to use it (i.e. FS cancel), because it adds another layer to gameplay, and because it IS a risky technique to use and easy to avoid if you see it coming. Having more options is a good thing.

 

[MK26]

JCz speaks the truth.

Also, we dont really need a footstool cancel if we can figure out how to shorten the height gain of a short footstool without affecting the length of the regular length (and yes, there are two separate lengths, though im not entirely sure if the length of the sfs is the safe as that of one's second consecutive footstool)

 

[FrozenHobo]

is it possible to make SDI and DI more powerful? like, close to melee level where you can actually DI out of some combos like uair/etc.

is it even possible to increase DI power anyway?

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

You people make me sad.

You can only footstool when you are right on top of someone. You can only be footstooled when you are right below someone. If you "accidentally" footstool/get footstooled, it is only because you either weren't paying attention or you don't have enough experience to know when to expect a footstool.

It's not some random bull**** like tripping. It can only happen in these specific situations. Changing the input because you don't pay close enough attention and don't know when to expect it is a crappy argument. A more legit argument could be that sometimes you just want to do a regular 2nd jump when you're right above someone, but more often than not, footstooling is much more advantageous.

I don't think this merits a more complicated and less intuitive input for footstooling, especially if you're forced to airdodge if you miss, which would highly discourage ever going for a footstool gimp offstage. I'm much less against the double-tap idea though. Just make it so you can only footstool within like 10 frames after a double jump and we don't even have to change anything else.

I would hate to lose this interesting technique. If anything, footstooling should be buffed to encourage people to learn to use it (i.e. FS cancel), because it adds another layer to gameplay, and because it IS a risky technique to use and easy to avoid if you see it coming. Having more options is a good thing.

Having something done more accidental than it is intentional is the problem. I believe some people do aim for a footstool but I also believe that more of them are done unintentionally. the reason why the airdodge thingy is being implemented is not to complicate things, but eliminate the accidental/unintentional factors of a footstool.

Or...he could actually be aiming to footstool?

Nah. No one footstools on purpose. I can't believe I fathomed the thought.

Exactly *****.

 

[cAm8ooo]

Exactly *****.

Uh... no. Sorry to tell you. I do actually aim for it and try to time it properly.

 

[Thunderhorse+]

Or...he could actually be aiming to footstool?

Nah. No one footstools on purpose. I can't believe I fathomed the thought.

I aimed for it here

 

[shanus]

What about a simple button press combination like A+B, or up on the controller pad?

 

[Totaldragon]

Sorry to interrupt the footstooling discution but i want to know something.

Do you guys know that sheik has chaingrab on snake like about 70%? =/
Just wanted to know if anyone have noted this and if it will stay without changes. I mean, i thought B+ wanted to take away long chaingrabs like that x_x.

(and yes, im using DI)

Sorry for the bad english, not my natal language ^^

Thanks, and bye!

 

[kupo15]

i still think the double-tap is the best idea...

what happens if you dont have any more jumps to cancel the ad, and your failed fs results in 30-40 frames of lag?

Uhh, have you already forgotten that Footstools don't apply to your jump count? As in, you can still footstool even if you lost all of your jumps?


I firmly believe that footstools are by accident as well. There are so much better approaches and tactics in B+ over Vbrawl that it overshadows the usefulness of footstools and should just be removed, not to mention the fact that I play smash bros to hit someone and not jump on their heads like a Mario game. Let me bring back an earlier post on the subject that lots of people agreed with:

Footstools are not meant to be useful. They're a dumb technique built by a team of hack programmers trying to make Smash Bros into a game where a 5-year-old can compete with a melee pro, along the same lines as random tripping and level hazards that kill instantly. It is NOT a legitimate "technique", and any attempt to make it useful in any way is a waste of programming time.

There is no reason why a game that relies on keeping your opponent off the edge should ever give the guarding player 100% opportunity to win by just simply jumping on their head. It's just BAD DESIGN on the part of the Brawl development team -- the same BAD DESIGN that made meta-knight so overpowered. If anything, you should be doing whatever you can to REMOVE footstooling completely, if you want a legitimate game you can call "tournament worthy". Let's do more to focus on solidifying the fundamental techniques of Smash Bros that the player has control over, rather than focus on whether or not you're able to stomp on your opponent in mid-air and gain a jump from it, which is annoying at best.

I can't believe that anyone would call this a "technique", let alone something that could be "useful". If you're rooting for this to stay in, you're rooting for a terrible game of smash.

 

[shanus]

I fail to see why we couldn't find a method to just remap a footstool input to another button. Then just implement the codes I've been working on for Footstool Jump Cancels & Footstool Meteor cancels.

With this, you could use footstool as a recovery option, you can use it for combos, and have a method to recover from a footstool with proper timing. It also would remove accidental footstools since the input from jump would now be gone.


If people don't like that idea, tell me now so I can save myself time lol

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

Uh... no. Sorry to tell you. I do actually aim for it and try to time it properly.

You must've completely disregarded my other post. Therefor you must eat thy own testicles.

 

[MK26]

kupo, think about this situation. Youre sonic. Youve used your second jump and up-b. You have no option but to go for the ledge. Your opponent hogs. Do you risk the fs (which would normally be the smart, safe option) and fear an airdodge instead of a footstool, or do you try to walljump and risk getting spiked?

Kirby, going for a footstool dair as a last-ditch edgeguard...if you miss the fs, you'd normally still have the up-b to recover, and your opponent is still going down. if you miss the fs (say, because your opponent SDI's) now suddenly the tables are turned. This massive risk can only be a negative to the game. Sure, it'll remove accidental footstools, but people will be too scared to even go for one deliberately.

 

[timothyung]

Or to make footstools more practical, make characters fall into the footstooled state even when they're attacking. But at the same time, weaken it in some way, Footstool Meteor cancel might work. Or maybe just make the "be footstooled" animation interruptible after, like, 10 frames.

And should we just use the idea we came up before? Mapping footstool to taunt? There are potential problems, though...

 

[kupo15]

kupo, think about this situation. Youre sonic. Youve used your second jump and up-b. You have no option but to go for the ledge. Your opponent hogs. Do you risk the fs (which would normally be the smart, safe option) and fear an airdodge instead of a footstool, or do you try to walljump and risk getting spiked?

There are two things wrong with this.

1.) That you said that FS should be safe and have no risk to perform whatsoever
2.) You said that FS should be safe without any risks

The thing is, if you miss with a FS normally or with the AD thing, you will be below the ledge no matter what. With the new air dodge, you wouldn't travel as far as before which means you would still be able to walljump, except you would be a little further down the wall than if you didn't risk the FS. I see nothing wrong with this

Kirby, going for a footstool dair as a last-ditch edgeguard...if you miss the fs, you'd normally still have the up-b to recover, and your opponent is still going down. if you miss the fs (say, because your opponent SDI's) now suddenly the tables are turned. This massive risk can only be a negative to the game. Sure, it'll remove accidental footstools, but people will be too scared to even go for one deliberately.

Is your objective for this game trying to remove all risk vs reward scenarios? Seriously?

 

[Shadic]

What's the main complaint about Footstooling, anyways?

That it often happens accidentally, and despite that, it's 90% of the time advantageous to the person accidentally doing so?

If that's the case, there's one other move that was quite similar to that. You know what that was? Powershielding.

How about we just make the footstool window smaller, so they're slightly more difficult to do?

That said, I think all the complaining about it is bull.

 

[MK26]

To answer your last question, no. I just think 30-40 frames of lag, no matter how fast you're traveling, is too much for a footstool.

And anyway, who even said the moongrav ad would even be implemented?

Not to mention reasons 1 and 2 are the exact same.

EDIT: that was @ Kupo. Also, Shadic wins the argument.

 

[Plum]

I'm not certain of what can be done as far as this whole airdodge canceling into footstools (which I think is a lovely idea) but wouldn't a possible solution be to have an airdodge canceled in the proper time frame, but with no target to actually footstool result in no action at all?

Excuse the run on sentence there, but essentially that solves MK26's complaint towards making footstooling too risky for the reward given.

 

[MK26]

they already thought of that...allowing the startup of an ad to be canceled into any kind of jump, and only allowing an fs through this cancel. However, it doesnt take into account trying to fs if you dont have any jumps left. Granted, that situation wont happen often, but it's generally the time where you cant afford to have 30-40 frames of lag to worry about if you miss.

EDIT: rereading what you said, that makes sense. But i still think its too much work to make footstools "competitive". A double-tap on the jump button is more than enough to prevent accidental footstools.

 

[Revven]

Sorry to interrupt the footstooling discution but i want to know something.

Do you guys know that sheik has chaingrab on snake like about 70%? =/
Just wanted to know if anyone have noted this and if it will stay without changes. I mean, i thought B+ wanted to take away long chaingrabs like that x_x.

(and yes, im using DI)

Sorry for the bad english, not my natal language ^^

Thanks, and bye!

You're DI'ing incorrectly then. You have to DI up and into Sheik, which she will only then be able to Bair you after Dthrow. Also, you can tech the throw if you're DI'ing down and away which most of the time avoids the regrab.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

is it possible to make SDI and DI more powerful? like, close to melee level where you can actually DI out of some combos like uair/etc.

is it even possible to increase DI power anyway?

Higher hitlag would do that easily, because hitlag right now is still less than Melee. No one seems to want it higher, though.
-------
Fast fallers are susceptible to certain CGs. Not new stuff. With how much KB Sheik's dthrow has, you need very favorable conditions to keep an "inescapable" chain throw even on a fast faller, and then that's not even for very long.

 

[bobson]

I'm really having trouble seeing the problem with accidental footstools at all.

You replaced the opening movie? Vids please? And ISO or SD card?

I didn't replace it with anything special, just a random video to test if it worked; making a video would be fairly pointless.
The first part of the intro with the trophies scrolling by is coded in rather than part of a THP, but once it switches to the SSE scenes you're free to edit everything. There's also a bit of code at the end of the THP telling it to switch to the title screen which gets overwritten if you replace it with a regular movie, but that's not really a problem. Replacing it with a smaller movie doesn't make the load time any shorter, unfortunately.

And yeah, I do everything by ISO hacking. I'm not sure if THPs work with the SD loader.

 

[Stevo]

could you explain why more hit lag would give DI more effect..... for those of us kinda newby to these things.

is it because you have a bigger time frame to SDI? would this affect DI as well?

 

[Dark Sonic]

You'd be able to reasonably get multiple SDI's on the same move (through double stick SDI), and be able to get single SDI's much more reliably. The reason that people don't like high hitlag is because of how much they slow down multihit sequences, on an individual hit it's too small of a difference to really slow down gameplay (yet it would still make SDI easier)

I for one wouldn't mind hitlag being increased a little, though I'd be against anything other than a very small increase for multihit moves. I know that some of them only have 1 frame of hitlag in the current set, yet I'd still hate to see Sonic's fair return to vbrawl slowness in the middle of a generally faster paced game.

 

[JCaesar]

What's wrong with the double-tap jump to footstool idea? It's a much more simple and intuitive input for it than any of the other suggestions, if it must be changed.

And I feel I have to repeat: There is only one possible situation where you can footstool, when you are right overtop of someone and press jump. If you don't have the awareness or experience to know that a footstool will occur in that situation, well that sucks for you, but enough of this "accidental" and "random" bull****. It's a poor excuse.

Oh no, I got tippered by Marth! He was just going for a regular fsmash but he was standing in the wrong spot so he accidentally tippered me! Plz make it so you have to hit A+B+C-stick+sidetaunt to do tippers so I don't get accidentally tippered all the time, kthx!

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

Oh no, I got tippered by Marth! He was just going for a regular fsmash but he was standing in the wrong spot so he accidentally tippered me! Plz make it so you have to hit A+B+C-stick+sidetaunt to do tippers so I don't get accidentally tippered all the time, kthx!

bad example but still funny lol. although ive never heard of an accidental tipper.

 

[timothyung]

The point is that 90% of the footstools are unintentional, while 90% of Marth's fsmash tippers are intentional. And we won't complain for footstooling someone randomly. We complain for being footstooled unintentionally.
Double jump input to footstool might not work... Yes, you can double jump even if you're above someone, and it's your fault for no spacing the jump. But you can't footstool without using a jump then.

 

[MK26]

if we can code a footstool only being activated by pressing jump within the time frame where a multi-jumping character's secondary/tertiary/quarternary air jump would not activate, we can code it so that a successful fs cancels a jump, had one been used within that time frame.

I hope.

 

[leafgreen386]

What's the main complaint about Footstooling, anyways?

That it often happens accidentally, and despite that, it's 90% of the time advantageous to the person accidentally doing so?

If that's the case, there's one other move that was quite similar to that. You know what that was? Powershielding.

How about we just make the footstool window smaller, so they're slightly more difficult to do?

That said, I think all the complaining about it is bull.

Because PSing is still a horrible mechanic the way it's implemented now.

If it was up to me, PSing would be either:
1) A different input with appropriate punishments for mistiming, plus an additional trade-off even if you succeed.

or

2) Only work for projectiles and have a 2 frame window.

Pretty much anytime someone PSs a physical move in brawl+ right now it's by pure accident. By reducing the number of frames to PS in, we succeeded in reducing accidental PSs, but we also made it much much harder to actually intentionally PS. As a result, almost any PS you see happen in brawl+ nowadays is by accident, with the exception of projectiles, which are somewhat easier due to their predictable behaviour.

I'm not certain of what can be done as far as this whole airdodge canceling into footstools (which I think is a lovely idea) but wouldn't a possible solution be to have an airdodge canceled in the proper time frame, but with no target to actually footstool result in no action at all?

Excuse the run on sentence there, but essentially that solves MK26's complaint towards making footstooling too risky for the reward given.

That would be fair, I think. It's not like you get anything by being able to cancel the starting couple frames of an airdodge. It wouldn't even be viable as a mindgame, since it happens so quickly.

 

[bobson]

The point is that 90% of the footstools are unintentional, while 90% of Marth's fsmash tippers are intentional. And we won't complain for footstooling someone randomly. We complain for being footstooled unintentionally.

So?
This is not a valid complaint. If you get hit, you get hit. It doesn't matter if the opponent didn't know what the B button did and was just trying it and didn't know it would hit you, you just got hit. If you don't want to get footstooled unintentionally, space yourself so you don't.

 

[timothyung]

Paper Mario style super guard?

So?
This is not a valid complaint. If you get hit, you get hit. It doesn't matter if the opponent didn't know what the B button did and was just trying it and didn't know it would hit you, you just got hit. If you don't want to get hit unintentionally, space yourself so you don't.

A move that is being pulled off unintentionally 90% of the time is not competitive.

 

[Plum]

What's wrong with the double-tap jump to footstool idea? It's a much more simple and intuitive input for it than any of the other suggestions, if it must be changed.

Honestly, I don't care how footstools would be given a little more control. Double tap or airdodge canceling would both work just fine as far as I'm concerned.

I really don't have any complaints with raising hitlag even more. I love the current hitlag more than the old 50%, and I would actually like to see it even higher.

2) Hit Lag. As far as I've been able to tell, the new landing lag and shield stun values mirror Melee's reasonably closely (with L-cancel taken into account, of course), I notice that Brawl+'s Hit Lag values seem to be consistently and considerably lower than Melee's. For instance, Ganon's mighty F-air had a considerable 7 frames of Hit Lag, and now it's been reduced to 4. Likewise, his d-air had 14/9 frames in Melee (hit/shielded respectively, because of electric attack's lag multiplier) while it's only 5/5 frames in B+. More markedly, Samus's Charge Shot used to be 15/10 in Melee, now it's 6/6.

Honestly I don't mind the Powershield issue too much either way. It's the hit lag that really concerns me.In the case of Ganon's f-air, naturally. But I was mainly making an example out of him because a Ganon f-air was one of the "beefiest" attacks hit lag-wise in Melee. That it's been reduced to 5 frames, and that Samus's Charge Shot is reduced to 6, speaks a lot about what happens to lesser attacks. Take Fox's D-air for example; in Melee, there would be 3 frames of hit lag, and 2 frames between each hit. So for each cycle of the drill, you could attempt to Smash DI in 3/5 of the frames. vBrawl has a ludicrous 5 frames of hit lag per hit. However, Brawl+ has only one frame of Hit Lag to DI, so for each drill cycle (of which there are generally only two when fastfalling) you only have 1 out of 3 frames per cycle to Smash DI. With Automatic Smash DI gone, doing at least one Smash DI is the only way to attempt to get out of the way of the incoming Up Smash. There are other examples, like Samus's d-smash, which also had 7 frames of Hit Lag in Melee like Ganon's f-air, but wasn't nearly as easy to see coming a mile away, or to react against if you wanted to Shield Smash DI the hit.

The vast majority of normal attacks in Brawl+ seem to bottom out at 1 frame and top out at 4 frames. On the other hand in Melee the hit lag range was 3 (jabs/multihits) to 7 (smash attacks strong aerials) for most things. I agree that the amount of hit lag in vBrawl was pretty excessive; 5-10 is just too high a range. But I think Melee was "just right" in that department. 1 frame is too low for multi-hit attacks and 4 frames is pretty low for the likes of a Fox Up Smash or a Mario Down Smash. I don't think anybody thought DI was too easy in Melee either.

Regarding Hit Lag: I just collected some data with 50%, 60%, 65%, 70%, 75%, and 80% reduction values. The 50% to 60% jump only shifted the 1-4 hit lag range one frame up to 2-5. 65% was barely any different from 60%. 70% bumped the range up to 2-6. 75% was barely any different. 80% finally bumped the range up to 3-7, making it an almost perfect match for Melee's values.

On a visual level I don't think it's noticeable at all for most attacks. I think the difference is really seen for weak multi-hit attacks. Since these repeat, throwing an extra frame or two of hit lag shifts the ratio of hit lag-to-stun time per multi-hit cycle, and that's much easier to notice than an extra 2 frames on a Smash attack. However, that hit lag-to-stun ratio is important for Smash DI'ing multi-hit attacks.

I have to agree with Magus in that, while I don't see a big change, the testers probably did because of already being used to 50%. I too would like to see a gradual increase over time up to 80% or at the very least 70% to be considered. Like I said, 60% just adds 1 frame across the board. That's practically nothing, and still leaves the hit lag levels well below Melee's, which was not a slow game at all. For the time being I think I'll just play with a "3" (2 in practice) Powershield window and 80% hit lag. If the community agrees, sweet, if not, then I guess I'll just have to conform if I ever go to a Brawl+ tournament.

Regarding Falco's lasers: I got a consistent 10 frames of stun at all values I tested between 50% and 80%. Shifting the hit lag up does not improve Falco's laser in any way. In fact, the attack seems to have no Hit Lag at all - all attempts to Smash DI the laser have failed. In fact, not even turning the x1.5 electric hit lag multiplier at 80% caused those 10 frames of stun to change. So there shouldn't be a problem on this one.

Great points regarding hitlag. vBrawl hitlag was clearly too long; the game practically froze in place when you hit with a strong attack or multihit attack. The game certainly looks and flows better with the big loss in hitlag, but in terms of gameplay it suffers when you go too low. At 50% even multihit attacks had 1 frame of hitlag for every cycle. Compared to the 3 frames in Melee, it is just making SDI unnecessarily difficult, and in some cases it boils down to prediction rather reaction because of how small of a time frame it gives you to SDI. 60% is certainly a step in the right direction, but I would like to give 70, perhaps 80 in the future a try.

It wouldn't be smart to jump to 80% right away; that big of a leap will have the same results as when we first tried to jump from 50-70%. Everyone complained about 70% being far too slow, and I feel that it is really just because of how drastic of a change it was. It might not even be the right move to release it as a Nightly, but rather just a test set for anyone willing to give input on it. Regardless, I think if we are going through this process of perfecting the mechanics of the game then hitlag should be brought up again. 80% would be "Melee" values (or as close as Brawl's engine can replicate Melee values) but 70% should be tried first.

An obvious complaint about the hitlag is how time practically freezes, and I certainly agree with that. It makes things look and in a way feel sluggish when the value is too high; just look at vBrawl for proof. Going to "Melee" values might be too "sluggish" so I can see how 80% might not work out for the purposes of Brawl+. But for the sake of perfecting mechanics in order to directly improve the feel of the game, let's at least give 70% another try. Last time people said 70% was too "vBrawl" but we have now grown attached to 60% so the jump to 70% won't be nearly as drastic this time around; I hope it would be more accepted this time around as well.

 

[bobson]

A move that is being pulled off unintentionally 90% of the time is not competitive.

I would more quickly say that players that are pulling off moves unintentionally 90% of the time are not competitive.

 

[iLink]

What's wrong with the double-tap jump to footstool idea? It's a much more simple and intuitive input for it than any of the other suggestions, if it must be changed.

And I feel I have to repeat: There is only one possible situation where you can footstool, when you are right overtop of someone and press jump. If you don't have the awareness or experience to know that a footstool will occur in that situation, well that sucks for you, but enough of this "accidental" and "random" bull****. It's a poor excuse.

Oh no, I got tippered by Marth! He was just going for a regular fsmash but he was standing in the wrong spot so he accidentally tippered me! Plz make it so you have to hit A+B+C-stick+sidetaunt to do tippers so I don't get accidentally tippered all the time, kthx!

I kind of agree with JC. If you put yourself in a position where you COULD be footstooled, shouldn't that be your fault for not being aware of that possibility? If it need be changed, simply make it a different but simple input that way its still doable but there won't be accidental footstools.

Couldn't you just assign the footstool to one of the taunt buttons?

 

[camelot]

stuff about hitlag

What if it was possible to have something like, 60% + 3 frames of hitlag? It would balance out multi-hit moves, I bet.

 

[timothyung]

I would more quickly say that players that are pulling off moves unintentionally 90% of the time are not competitive.

But the fact is that even competitive players are pulling it off unintentionally most of the time


Hitlag stuff:
I believe 60% +1-2 frames will work

 

[WheelOfFish]

If FS can't be fixed to be more of a technique than an accident, they should be removed. Not to mention that they discriminate against heavies with poor recoveries (being huge targets and have more trouble FSing) whereas characters with great recoveries, such as Metaknight and Kirby, benefit most.

Back to the idea of changing the start-up and how to play videos...

Virtual Dub can convert most formats into sequential JPGs which can then be compiled into THPs (the movie format for Wii games) with thpconv from the Wii SDK. I've replaced the opening movie and screwed around with some of the SSE movies using this.

That sounds awesome... do you have any videos of it working?

I think the 'how to play' screen should be close to Melee's, but when it says "Intercept", and Mario is just about to f-air spike Bowser, Captain Falcon flies out of no where and falcon punches them. Aaaand then the next instruction can be "Show me yours moves".

 

[Hyrus]

You can only footstool when you are right on top of someone. You can only be footstooled when you are right below someone. If you "accidentally" footstool/get footstooled, it is only because you either weren't paying attention or you don't have enough experience to know when to expect a footstool.

There's no problem with an on stage footstool. It's when you're off stage fighting for the ledge when its ********. Recovering with both players below the ledge is the most frantic, win or lose scenario in the game that's trivialized by a double jump incidentally spiking someone else. And you can't exactly "avoid" that.

(Footstooling) That it often happens accidentally, and despite that, it's 90% of the time advantageous to the person accidentally doing so? If that's the case, there's one other move that was quite similar to that. You know what that was? Powershielding.

I also dislike the input of Powershielding. The difference is, if you "accidentally" Powershield, you're usually not going to enterprise off of it. A Powershield doesn't spike someone beyond recovery at ridiculous percents.

Because PSing is still a horrible mechanic the way it's implemented now. If it was up to me, PSing would be either:

1) A different input with appropriate punishments for mistiming, plus an additional trade-off even if you succeed.

2) Only work for projectiles and have a 2 frame window.

Pretty much anytime someone PSs a physical move in brawl+ right now it's by pure accident. By reducing the number of frames to PS in, we succeeded in reducing accidental PSs, but we also made it much much harder to actually intentionally PS. As a result, almost any PS you see happen in brawl+ nowadays is by accident, with the exception of projectiles, which are somewhat easier due to their predictable behaviour.

I'd be a fan of #2. Projectiles, at the right spacing, are zero risk anyway. Accurately being able to Powershield a physical attack would just bring back vBrawl's overly shield heavy gameplay.

 

[stingers]

Wowww Brawl+ is getting dumber and dumber every day...

 

[JCaesar]

There's no problem with an on stage footstool. It's when you're off stage fighting for the ledge when its ********. Recovering with both players below the ledge is the most frantic, win or lose scenario in the game that's trivialized by a double jump incidentally spiking someone else. And you can't exactly "avoid" that.

If you are paying attention, you can see when someone is in position to footstool you, and then you can do literally any move at all to make yourself immune to footstools.

If you get footstooled, don't blame the mechanic, blame yourself for not being aware of your positioning and taking the proper steps to avoid it, which is really not that difficult.

Oh and about this "accident" thing: Back in '01 and '02 (early Melee), I'm willing to bet that 90%+ of wavedashing was done by accident, because even the most competitive players didn't fully understand the mechanic. Do you think they should've removed it from the game (assuming they had the power) because they didn't like the "random" sliding they sometimes got when airdodging near the ground? No, they practiced it instead and learned to use it to their advantage.

Yes, another bad analogy, deal with it

 

[bobson]

But the fact is that even competitive players are pulling it off unintentionally most of the time

I wouldn't call them competitive if they only utilize a tool as powerful as footstooling accidentally.
And I especially wouldn't call them competitive if they ignore said tool when their opponent can use it against them and then complain because their opponent did it "unintentionally."