Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[Dantarion]

Okay, this weekend ill try to hop in the Brawl+ IRC and give someone important a chance to test this.

 

[CloneHat]

Is anyone working on SH single lasers for Falco? It was brought up a while ago.

I was just watching some vids of Thunderhorse owning with barely any laser use, and the thought came to mind.

 

[Stevo]

+1 vote for nerfing spot dodges SLIGHTLY.

they seem over powered at the moment on most characters.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

can auto jabs and foot stools be taken out? they are not competitive.

 

[Isatis]

Canit be made to work without homebrew as well?

If it's a boot.elf/dol file, yes.

This would require the Disable Custom Stages code though.

 

[Alphatron]

can auto jabs and foot stools be taken out? they are not competitive.

Auto jabbing is already being removed. Footstools just need to be fixed. Make them less sensitive and accidental, and also make it so that someone underneath you can't footstool you. That's stupid as hell.

 

[Yingyay]

Map footstools to another button? Wasn't this brought up before?

And yes! auto jab removal ftw.

 

[Jer]

How could i connect to the b+ irc, i'd be really down to talk with you guys

 

[5ive]

Streaming with paintedghost, distructo, engo, and eugene. http://www.ustream.tv/channel/im5ive

 

[cAm8ooo]

How could i connect to the b+ irc, i'd be really down to talk with you guys

http://brawlplus.net/irc/

 

[Dark Sonic]

can auto jabs and foot stools be taken out? they are not competitive.

Footstools as a mechanic are plenty competitive. Many characters can combo into and out of footstools. The input mechanic simply needs to be reworked, but footstools themselves are fine (and are actually the target of a possible advance tech for brawl+ )

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

foot stool..as an advance-tech..
im 100% sure most footstools are accidental than skill based. they really don't serve any purpose in a competitive atmosphere. jumping over hitboxes rather than people is even worst. footstooling your partner in doubles so he doesn't die isn't skill.. merely imo an accident most times. because we all know people wait for their partners to be hit rather than just assisting them im the first place so they don't get hit. foot stool combos..yeah, because everyones gonna aim for a footstool rather than a viable set-up which would more than likely be a lot more reliable.

 

[GHNeko]

D3 loves grounded footstools. So does DK. and ICs.

Marth loves aerial footstools. So does Sonic.

I'm sure ganon would love grounded footstools too (if the grounded footstools were slowed down again). I'm sure Peach would love aerial footstools too.

There are a nice selection of characters that have good to decent footstool tactics, some of them just aren't common knowledge. :V

 

[colored blind]

foot stool..as an advance-tech..
im 100% sure most footstools are accidental than skill based. they really don't serve any purpose in a competitive atmosphere. jumping over hitboxes rather than people is even worst. footstooling your partner in doubles so he doesn't die isn't skill.. merely imo an accident most times. because we all know people wait for their partners to be hit rather than just assisting them im the first place so they don't get hit. foot stool combos..yeah, because everyones gonna aim for a footstool rather than a viable set-up which would more than likely be a lot more reliable.

I'm pretty sure that's the point of reworking them, so they can be done on command and be used in a competitive manner, as opposed to being an accident.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

I'm pretty sure that's the point of reworking them, so they can be done on command and be used in a competitive manner, as opposed to being an accident.

hmm k then thats cool.

D3 loves grounded footstools. So does DK. and ICs.

Marth loves aerial footstools. So does Sonic.

I'm sure ganon would love grounded footstools too (if the grounded footstools were slowed down again). I'm sure Peach would love aerial footstools too.

There are a nice selection of characters that have good to decent footstool tactics, some of them just aren't common knowledge. :V

because inescapable easy accidental bull **** is so competitive since it makes things easier =)

 

[GHNeko]

because inescapable easy accidental bull **** is so competitive since it makes things easier =)

Aerial Footstool > Dair with Marth cannot be done on accident.

Grounded Footstool > Immediate Side B ground > KO move with DK cannot be done on accident.

Grounded footstool > Down B > Ground Pound Launch > Aerial Move cannot be done on accident with Ganon.

Why? The timing is too tight for it to ever be anyting but intended.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

Aerial Footstool > Dair with Marth cannot be done on accident.

Grounded Footstool > Immediate Side B ground > KO move with DK cannot be done on accident.

Grounded footstool > Down B > Ground Pound Launch > Aerial Move cannot be done on accident with Ganon.

Why? The timing is too tight for it to ever be anyting but intended.

The bolded, is done more accidental. I understand people go for the spike but most times im positive the footstool is accidental and the spike can be done without it anyway.

The italics, I've never seen someone intentionally try to go for that as there are better more reliable set-ups. -_- (the 3rd one since italics didnt really show)

The donkey kong thing i understand. Although I've seen high level play with DK and never really see someone go for that as there are better set-ups, but when it does occur it happens so i cant argue against that.

 

[GHNeko]

The timing on Footstool > Dair is too tight for it to really be accidental because if you dont buffer the dair perfectly then you miss the spike, and considering its character specific in an absurd fashion (you have to be facing the same direction as the opponent for the spike to work on some characters, on other characters you have to be facing the opposite direction. A few characters you have to move backwards as you dair, some characters you have to stay neutral as you dair, etc etc)

Its a whole bunch of stuff and some characters cant even be dair'd after the footstool.

So most of the time, it's done on purpose.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

The timing on Footstool > Dair is too tight for it to really be accidental because if you dont buffer the dair perfectly then you miss the spike, and considering its character specific in an absurd fashion (you have to be facing the same direction as the opponent for the spike to work on some characters, on other characters you have to be facing the opposite direction. A few characters you have to move backwards as you dair, some characters you have to stay neutral as you dair, etc etc)

Its a whole bunch of stuff and some characters cant even be dair'd after the footstool.

So most of the time, it's done on purpose.

most of the time.. im pretty sure its accidental. then again, if you're skilled with marth you'd just go for tipper but whatever. study your footstools i guess.

 

[shanus]

foot stool..as an advance-tech..
im 100% sure most footstools are accidental than skill based. they really don't serve any purpose in a competitive atmosphere. jumping over hitboxes rather than people is even worst. footstooling your partner in doubles so he doesn't die isn't skill.. merely imo an accident most times. because we all know people wait for their partners to be hit rather than just assisting them im the first place so they don't get hit. foot stool combos..yeah, because everyones gonna aim for a footstool rather than a viable set-up which would more than likely be a lot more reliable.

I'm exploring 2 new modes to make footstools more versatile. While I haven't found a way to change the input to perform a footstool (well, I know how to map an additional input to footstool, but not how to remove it from the jump button) , I think these two new changes could be pretty awesome.

Footstool cancels - Press the jump button in the first 10 frames of performing a footstool to cancel your upwards momentum and allow you to use it for combos.

Footstool Meteor Cancel - On frame 5-9 (in its current iteration), you can perform a meteor cancel to escape a footstool. This is particularly huge for characters like bowser, DK, and Yoshi.

 

[FrozenHobo]

I'm exploring 2 new modes to make footstools more versatile. While I haven't found a way to change the input to perform a footstool (well, I know how to map an additional input to footstool, but not how to remove it from the jump button) , I think these two new changes could be pretty awesome.

Footstool cancels - Press the jump button in the first 10 frames of performing a footstool to cancel your upwards momentum and allow you to use it for combos.

Footstool Meteor Cancel - On frame 5-9 (in its current iteration), you can perform a meteor cancel to escape a footstool. This is particularly huge for characters like bowser, DK, and Yoshi.

i like both of those. are there any glitches thus far?

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

I'm exploring 2 new modes to make footstools more versatile. While I haven't found a way to change the input to perform a footstool (well, I know how to map an additional input to footstool, but not how to remove it from the jump button) , I think these two new changes could be pretty awesome.

Footstool cancels - Press the jump button in the first 10 frames of performing a footstool to cancel your upwards momentum and allow you to use it for combos.

Footstool Meteor Cancel - On frame 5-9 (in its current iteration), you can perform a meteor cancel to escape a footstool. This is particularly huge for characters like bowser, DK, and Yoshi.

alright thats not bad i figgadealz yaaa i like that.

 

[MK26]

wouldnt the first option allow somebody to mash jump and repeatedly fs, fall, fs, fall, repeat? not to mention it would make kirby's dair footstool loop all but impossible to escape.

second option is great though, as long as it's escapable by jumps and up-b's (and perhaps other specials)

 

[GHNeko]

We should add sound to attacks that clank on the ground and give the clanks more of a pause. <_<

 

[Revven]

We should add sound to attacks that clank on the ground and give the clanks more of a pause. <_<

Neko, I tested this once, clanking DOES have a SFX it's just so god **** low nobody can hear it. It's like the sound of fists clanking, as if you're hitting a punching bag, it's terrible.

 

[Hyrus]

Footstools as a mechanic are plenty competitive. Many characters can combo into and out of footstools. The input mechanic simply needs to be reworked, but footstools themselves are fine (and are actually the target of a possible advance tech for brawl+ )

[Accidental] Most footstools happen off stage, below the ledge (from what i've seen). Since there is no auto snapping the ledge in Brawl+, many characters have a window in their decent where they can't afford to dodge or attack and must wait for the proper timing to UpB. Sometimes, the higher player can't afford to attack that deep without sacrificing their own ability to recover, so they mash for double jump and WHOOPS, DEAD AT 30%. Things get very tight under a ledge as it is.

[Impractical] The collision for a footstool is small - you put yourself in an extremely vulnerable position to be sitting on your opponents head, hoping he doesn't perform any non-joystick related action where you'll eat any attack he throws out. And if you "miss", you waste a double jump to be lingering in the same vulnerable position in the air. Why put yourself in such a devastatingly vulnerable position on stage?

[Evidence] I watch a lot of Brawl+ videos on youtube. Off hand, I can't recall a single instance of an on stage footstool, or an off stage footstool that didn't look like an accident. I know that I personally find them impractical. But i'm an open minded guy. Can anyone post some links to videos demonstrating footstools being used in a competitive matche between decent+ skilled players?

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

[Accidental] Most footstools happen off stage, below the ledge (from what i've seen). Since there is no auto snapping the ledge in Brawl+, many characters have a window in their decent where they can't afford to dodge or attack and must wait for the proper timing to UpB. Sometimes, the higher player can't afford to attack that deep without sacrificing their own ability to recover, so they mash for double jump and WHOOPS, DEAD AT 30%. Things get very tight under a ledge as it is.

[Impractical] The collision for a footstool is small - you put yourself in an extremely vulnerable position to be sitting on your opponents head, hoping he doesn't perform any non-joystick related action where you'll eat any attack he throws out. And if you "miss", you waste a double jump to be lingering in the same vulnerable position in the air. Why put yourself in such a devastatingly vulnerable position on stage?

[Evidence] I watch a lot of Brawl+ videos on youtube. Off hand, I can't recall a single instance of an on stage footstool, or an off stage footstool that didn't look like an accident. I know that I personally find them impractical. But i'm an open minded guy. Can anyone post some links to videos demonstrating footstools being used in a competitive matche between decent+ skilled players?

i agree with you but most likely footstools wont be removed. id love to see them go, but im positive they wont even think about removing them for one nightly. besides, there arent as many competitive matches out.

 

[CountKaiser]

Neko, I tested this once, clanking DOES have a SFX it's just so god **** low nobody can hear it. It's like the sound of fists clanking, as if you're hitting a punching bag, it's terrible.

Any way we can make it louder?

 

[Dark Sonic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2PPUh5if2U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3je-k53-DU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sK3COk9mgjc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rz1nARLPkck (Sonic's can be used at anywhere from 0-60%. In brawl+ you can substitute a dair for the up B and then combo from it)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCAaOhH6UUg (lol wut?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEEJPLGGBwo (OMG useless but hilarious)


Used in a real match <_<
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV839DT0j5E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZBImJv8HbQ (5:08 he did it on purpose. The footstool was unnecesary anyway )

Sorry that most of the footstools that you see are on accident, but I go for footstools on a regular basis as a Sonic player (since he has guranteed combos into and FROM it), and even occasionally go for it while recovering (Sonic can footstool opponents after his up B, and can also foostool opponents who are grabbing the ledge. It's a good anti edgehog tactic for him). The fact that footstool's implimentation makes it possible to do them accidently does not automatically mean that they have no possible competitive use. It needs to be reworked to be more controllable yes, but the actual mechanic (jumping off of people and putting them into a very slow fall state during which they can't control their character) is perfectly fine.

(btw we can probably make footstools untechable again. I believe we had a fix for Ganon's side B at one point that would be pefectly applicable to footstools)

 

[Dantarion]

I know how to remove auto-jabs on a per-character basis, but what was the reasoning on removing them?

 

[VietGeek]

I suppose it's the fact that you can literally hold down the button as an auto-wall, then if it hits the game does all the connecting for you.

This is especially problematic on a jab that's both strong and comes out on frame 2-4; I think Snake's jab is most guilty of this. =V

 

[SymphonicSage12]

and *cough* Ike's. *cough*

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

we know how to get rid of it, is anyone planning to get rid of the auto jab on connect as well as auto jab on miss

 

[leafgreen386]

So for the new footstool input... what does everyone think of this?

During the opening frames of an airdodge (before you become invulnerable), you're able to cancel the airdodge with a footstool if you're in the correct position and you press jump. If you just press jump normally when you're in position for a footstool, you'll perform your regular double jump. You have to cancel an airdodge in order to perform the footstool.

It should solve the input problem without forcing players to assign a new "footstool" button like they would've had to do with my old idea for it.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

leafgreen I love you

 

[WheelOfFish]

Totally an unnecessary addition, but I think it would be cool if the 'How to Play' video was changed (is this even possible?) to fit Brawl+.

Intercept!

 

[GuruKid]

Also loving Leafgreen's proposal. A sound idea for removing the whole "accidental-ness" of footstools.

 

[Stevo]

yeah that seems like a good "fix"

 

[VietGeek]

Totally an unnecessary addition, but I think it would be cool if the 'How to Play' video was changed (is this even possible?) to fit Brawl+.

Intercept!

It's definitely possible, but I do not know of any program that can convert videos back to the format Nintendo uses for videos.

 

[zxeon]

leafgreen I love you

It's not that great of a fix. More like a sloppy workaround, but it will have to do.

At least now you'll feel like you actually accomplished something when you do footstool rather than in just being a product of circumstance.