Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[kupo15]

Why would that make more sense? Why would water resistance cause someone to be able to jump higher?

MEGA MAN!!!

I prefer the term "thick air"...

Awesome term. Going to change it.

I really really want to see matches with this new water mechanic. I'm hyped!!

 

[thesage]

MEGA MAN!!!

Awesome term. Going to change it.

lol I was thinking the same thing.

And if the water is left as is the stage is going to be really campy. Mk can just camp the water. Ness can just camp the water.

It's gay lol.

I don't really get why people like the rock transformation. I hate it so much...

I just hate all the transformations. They make the match really campy. At least on pokemon stadium in melee, only two of the transformations were campy, and even then it was possible to be agressive on those stages with certain character. On the pirate ship transformations, they all promote camping.

 

[kupo15]

If anything, keep the red lion transformation because that can act like the cloud from Melee in a way and can be interesting with the new water mechanic. You could try and sneak underneath!

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

possible to have players drown after being in there too long?
stalling = gone (prolly not) lol

 

[iLink]

Why would that make more sense? Why would water resistance cause someone to be able to jump higher?

Meh, ninja'd...
I prefer the term "thick air"...

well assuming character's second jumps are relatively similiar to their first jump, kicking off the bottom of a pool with the same force you use as jump would send you higher then a regular jump because gravity doesn't yank you down like out of water. Of course I could be wrong and I'm crazy.

Regardless brawl physics =/= irl physics so do as you guys please XP

 

[Perfect Chaos]

But maybe jumping in water without kicking off of something is another story, like what cAm8ooo said. But we'll never really know how that would work IRL.

Here's a thought; to keep things not looking strange with slowed down vertical movement yet horizontal movement unaffected, how about slowing that down, too? Maybe that's a little too much, though. One step at a time, I guess.

 

[timothyung]

IRL you'll move, fall, and rise slower in the water. But you will go higher if you jump from the bottom of the pool.
Much like Megaman Zero/Sonic games

You know, slowing down the acceleration of everything (falling acceleration, aerial mobility) might work

 

[kr3wman]

Erhm, so I dunno if this was posted or not.

We had a tournament like, Saturday which was pretty stupid in my opinion.

Results were something like this.

1. HolyNightmare (ROB)
2. Thatguy (Wolf)
3. Steb (Lucas)
4. KingKong (Bowser)
5. Jer (Jiggs)
5. Elef (Yoshi)
7. Tchoker (Wolf)
7. Krewman (Falcon)
9. Fornaxxx (Meta Knight)
9. Zaf (Toon Link)
9. Kev! (Luigi)
9. Agony (Fox/Meta Knight)
13. Vrud (Ness)

Switch Elef and Me in loser's brackets. Agony threw his match against Elef because he didn't feel like playing and Me versus Zaf and Elef were forfeits, first one because I didn't feel like playing and second one because I throw games where I need to change characters and play gay to win against someone who plays gay in a free tournament. Besides Brawl+ is hella dumb whatever way you look at it so yeah.

 

[weinzey]

did u guys record/upload the matches?

 

[JCaesar]

Joel = Thatguy I'm guessing? I'm just wondering who Holy lost to in Winner's.

I told you idiots that Wolf is good

 

[Jer]

Wolf IS too good.

It's not even funny

 

[Zook]

After reading the OP, I got the impression that Bowser got super armor similar to the kind Snake gets during his upB. However, whenever I try using it, he just flinches. Even at moves like Charizard's standard B. :/

Is this happening to anyone else, or is it just me?

 

[kupo15]

possible to have players drown after being in there too long?
stalling = gone (prolly not) lol

If you remove swimming, stalling is gone. Its not like you can suspend inside the water anymore. If you run out of jumps, you WILL fall (slower) to the bottom death zone.


Regarding how water should act, it really requires some tweaking of different ideas to find what works best. I was kinda thinking about slower horizontal motion as well. IIRC, a lot of platformers jump higher in water as well. First step is actually get the code that allows us to do this, then test around

 

[Revven]

After reading the OP, I got the impression that Bowser got super armor similar to the kind Snake gets during his upB. However, whenever I try using it, he just flinches. Even at moves like Charizard's standard B. :/

Is this happening to anyone else, or is it just me?

It's when you crawl, so if you're just crouching it won't work. Otherwise, if you were crawling, redownload his .PAC.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

Speaking of that, is it going to be made to include SA during crouch (among other things, perhaps), as well, like how it was originally intended to be?

Back to the water business: yes...a code would be nice. That way, it won't just be brainstorming, as we'll be able to actual test all the different possibilities once such a code exist.

 

[goodoldganon]

Water is almost fine as it is. The only problem is the spike wars that can happen but even that is debatable. Pirate Ship will never be tourney legal without 'ruining' (i.e. removing all the hazards) the stage. The water in Jungle Japes is fine as it is. The water moves quick enough that you can't really use it like you can in pirate ship and delfino plaza. I have no qualms with jungle japes water. last we have Delfino. There are only two stops with water and though they lead to spiking wars, Delfino has a host of other problems that would prevent it from ever become a neutral stage. As it is now, Delfino is a great counterpick.

 

[JCaesar]

It's more the fact that Delfino constantly changes, thus water-camping isn't a problem. You can just wait and the water-camper is at a severe disadvantage once the stage takes off. The occasional 15 second spike wars there are A-OK since you can choose whether you want to take that risk or not. And yeah, no matter what you do to it, Delfino could never be a neutral. *snickers at BBrawl's stage list*

 

[CloneHat]

In my opinion, Pirate Ship is the only issue. It has an interesting layout, but the water screws it up.

 

[goodoldganon]

In my opinion, Pirate Ship is the only issue. It has an interesting layout, but the water screws it up.

And the bombs...
and the crashing...
and the tornado...

The whole stage is a cluster**** of hazards which, though hilariously fun, could never be made CP material without fixing the water AND removing the hazards.

 

[Revven]

And the catapult actually KOs you now at high %s because of hitstun. >_>

 

[CloneHat]

Whoops.

Forgot about the 30% bombs and the instant-kill catapult.

 

[leafgreen386]

...

Is this not why I just said that if we revamped the water and removed/drastically weakened the bombs/catapult that it would turn the stage into a legal CP?

 

[goodoldganon]

...

Is this not why I just said that if we revamped the water and removed/drastically weakened the bombs/catapult that it would turn the stage into a legal CP?

We have plenty of good CPs that don't require neutering a perfectly fine and fun lulz stage.

 

[leafgreen386]

We have plenty of good CPs that don't require neutering a perfectly fine and fun lulz stage.

Tell that to warioware. Tell that to rumble falls.

We've killed noncompetitive stages in the past. What makes this any different? If a player wants to play on the old versions of these stages, they just have to remove the code that makes it work. Not a hard thing to do. It's almost laughable when the defense for not changing a noncompetitive level into a competitive one when brawl+ sells itself as a competitive game is because it "neuter a perfectly fine and fun lulz stage."

 

[GHNeko]

tbh, I feel like I'm the only one with no real issue with the water mechanic.

I'd really only like to see the new mechanic apply to pirate ship only. :/

 

[KOkingpin]

I liked the Idea of The Airship. If you removed the Moon gravity (or whatever its called) it would be a really good CP stage. Because there would be no Catapult, No Bombs flying in, No rock camping, No extra platform off to the side (Occasionally), and No water. Its a much easier fix for the stage and it makes it more competitive at the same time. Plus it sounds pretty neat too.

 

[5ive]

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/im5ive

Distructo, Eugene, 5ive, Painted Ghost

 

[CloneHat]

If it was the airship, there would still be the hitbox on the bottom of the ship, unless you can remove that.

 

[Alphatron]

There's this one stage. It's name is Rainbow Cruise. I think it's a really cool airship stage because there is no catapult to fling you off the ship and there are no 30% bombs. Best thing about this stage is that its already in the sky.

 

[JCaesar]

There's nothing wrong with killing a lulz stage to make it more competitive. I just think that not all stages are salvageable and worth the effort. I'm not saying that's the case with Pirate Ship, but we've already attempted to make stages like MK1-1 more competitive and it's still nowhere near CP-worthy. Pirate Ship would take significantly more effort to fix and it would still be a meh CP at best. I'm just not sure it's worth the effort when there are better things our coders could be working on.

 

[lord karn]

There's nothing wrong with killing a lulz stage to make it more competitive. I just think that not all stages are salvageable and worth the effort. I'm not saying that's the case with Pirate Ship, but we've already attempted to make stages like MK1-1 more competitive and it's still nowhere near CP-worthy. Pirate Ship would take significantly more effort to fix and it would still be a meh CP at best. I'm just not sure it's worth the effort when there are better things our coders could be working on.

I agree with this post.

Also, I asked you about this a while ago, but I'll ask everyone else now. Is it possible to get the mini-boss stages from sub space emissary as counterpicks or even neutrals? The levels where you fought the shadow-characters or whatever were really legit.

 

[JCaesar]

I'm pretty sure we can't because they're on different layers of the disc. We can't touch any of the single player stuff.

 

[crazy brawler]

I agree with this post.

Also, I asked you about this a while ago, but I'll ask everyone else now. Is it possible to get the mini-boss stages from sub space emissary as counterpicks or even neutrals? The levels where you fought the shadow-characters or whatever were really legit.

for me, i would think if you go to the stage and have a cpu control code (never been done yet) and put the character modifier code so you can have your character in it (and maybe something to remove the dark mode i think)

 

[lord karn]

So is it just impossible to hack the single player layer or is it just really hard?

 

[VietGeek]

Nothing is impossible, it's just unfeasible.

Also it has something to do with how the two modes use different encryption. Judging by how both VS mode and SSE have varying levels of quality (SSE mode looks a lot more darker and the textures look richer overall imo), the SSBB project was split between different groups together under some common game engine and design foundation then put together at some later process.

TL;DR: Unless someone can "re-convert" SSE stages to VS mode, you can't really expect VS mode SSE stages in the near future.

Besides the most salvageable SSE stages also happen to just be plain neutrals with cooler backgrounds...

or ones where you happen to fight random enemies so just MOAR PLATFORMS =V

**** I want that too. <___<

 

[lord karn]

I think I remember one that was a platformed level that was also big, so we could get a dreamland-esque level again. Alas, seems like it won't happen.

 

[kupo15]

Water is almost fine as it is. The only problem is the spike wars that can happen but even that is debatable.

lol, Is this the uncompetitive side of you coming out to play?

Pirate Ship will never be tourney legal without 'ruining' (i.e. removing all the hazards) the stage.

Ruining the stage? So you think removing the random and uncompetitive hazards ruins the stage instead of said hazards ruining the stage because they are there to begin with?

The water in Jungle Japes is fine as it is.

lol, if you say so.

last we have Delfino. There are only two stops with water and though they lead to spiking wars, Delfino has a host of other problems that would prevent it from ever become a neutral stage. As it is now, Delfino is a great counterpick.

Wait. Who ever said that we are aiming for making this and all stages Neutral instead of an improved stage? And who ever said that the whole point of fixing the water was to turn the stage from CP to Neutral? The stage layout and other aspects of the stage will definitely determine if it is a CP or Neutral. I see nothing wrong with turning a banned stage into a viable stage regardless if it becomes a CP or Neutral.

And the bombs...
and the crashing...
and the tornado...

The whole stage is a cluster**** of hazards

This poses absolutely no challenge because it can be frozen or reversed at this very moment.

which, though hilariously fun, could never be made CP material without fixing the water AND removing the hazards.

Then do it. You agree that its not impossible nor is it a lost cause unless you don't want to because the casual game will suffer. Da**. I didn't know you intended to cater to them too!

We have plenty of good CPs that don't require neutering a perfectly fine and fun lulz stage.

You just don't want to put the effort and you want to keep some things uncompetitive for the sake of it from what it seems. And I got the impression for a very long time that your casual self guides your judgment in deciding what should and shouldn't be improved at times and if this is the case and if you don't want to be apart of the people in charge of improving this game with a competitive mindset 100%, then why are you in the WBR? I have been wondering this for quite a while actually and by all means, correct me if I'm wrong.

This has got to be the worst response I have ever seen from a WBR member in regards to refusing a change that has a great possibility to improve the game not to mention that it is really embarrassing. You are apart of the group who the general public has no choice but to trust to make decisions that improve the game. What's worse is how you have a decent amount of good feedback from the people that support this project for the idea in which you reply "We have plenty of good CPs that don't require neutering a perfectly fine and fun lulz stage."

Give me a break

tbh, I feel like I'm the only one with no real issue with the water mechanic.

I'd really only like to see the new mechanic apply to pirate ship only. :/

Even if it was applied to just Pirate ship for now, that would be a step in the right direction, but if the code is made, I find it very silly and ignorant to not even try appling it to the other stages if it is a great success. Maybe it will require some more babying to get you guys to consider appling the mechanic to the other stages when the code comes out instead of just assuming that it would be worse.

I liked the Idea of The Airship. If you removed the Moon gravity (or whatever its called) it would be a really good CP stage. Because there would be no Catapult, No Bombs flying in, No rock camping, No extra platform off to the side (Occasionally), and No water. Its a much easier fix for the stage and it makes it more competitive at the same time. Plus it sounds pretty neat too.

The air ship wouldn't have the moon gravity at all. In fact, you have all the tools availible to make the Air ship stage right now. All you need is some good texturing.

 

[stingers]

Pirate Ship would be NEUTRAL if you froze it and just removed the water. Like guaranteed. The stage has an excellent platform setup.

 

[Revven]

I don't think GoG knows how bad water stalling is and that currently, leaving it as is, Pirate Ship becomes one of their best CPs for both Ike and Ness (as it was for them in Brawl). Water stalling is the dumbest form of stalling in this game for a number of reasons:

1) Certain characters have a ton of lag upon entering the water, thus if you try to give chase the opponent will simply meteor you if they have an attack like that.

2) Some characters can't compete in the water at all so chasing isn't an option.

3) You can never drown as all you have to do is jump every so often to keep yourself from drowning. There's absolutely no consequence of staying in the water if you're Ike or Ness.

So, as you can see, water stalling becomes a great tactic on Pirate Ship. It's a little less so on Delfino. The reason Jungle Japes needs some kind of change (or characters need less water lag when they enter the water) is because some characters simply cannot exit the water fast enough with our gravity settings + the amount of lag they suffer upon entering the water/exiting the water. Thus, JJ becomes a HUGE CP against these characters and becomes a major weakness for them on that stage. Yes, it's a CP and of course a CP should be used to counterpick a character's weakness but, JJ has the worst water ever. It should be toned down in this regard, it would still be a CP anyway for its high ceiling and death boundaries not to mention how the stage is built anyway.

 

[CountKaiser]

Last thing we need is more neutrals.

On the subject of stages that should be counterpicks, but aren't, why are corneria and norfair cp/banned? Norfair I can understand, platform camping. Speed up the lava a bit to stop it, but why corneria?

And there is absolutely nothing wrong with JJ's watter. It at least doesn't have the insipid effects of water camping. You fall in it, you're likely to die.

If you made water lagless, that'd be a good start.