Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[MK26]

hold on...he means freezing the stage in that position? wouldnt that be kinda impossible to play doubles? kinda impossible to gimp someone on the side where the platforms go up? or would the platforms be frozen too?

 

[stingers]

Well, hopefully. :V

Only time will tell.



Or you can just reduce the HP so that a single hit from anything causes them to break. lmao.

jumping into it will still like, cancel your short hop and be a total hindrance.

lmao.

 

[cAm8ooo]

hold on...he means freezing the stage in that position? wouldnt that be kinda impossible to play doubles? kinda impossible to gimp someone on the side where the platforms go up? or would the platforms be frozen too?

You can always just ban for doubles and cp for singles.

 

[GHNeko]

hold on...he means freezing the stage in that position? wouldnt that be kinda impossible to play doubles? kinda impossible to gimp someone on the side where the platforms go up? or would the platforms be frozen too?

Ban in Doubles.

jumping into it will still like, cancel your short hop and be a total hindrance.

lmao.

Jumping into a block breaks it, and you can just strike it before you jump or something. If you can see it over you, you know its over you. Like Yoshi's I-Melee. <_>

You can always just ban for doubles and cp for singles.

This.

 

[stingers]

the blocks wont respawn, right?

 

[MK26]

:D

gimp city

oh god, ivy dsmash would **** here

 

[GHNeko]

the blocks wont respawn, right?

If reversing the stage doesnt **** with the platforms we can make it like that.

:D

gimp city

oh god, ivy dsmash would **** here

How would it be gimp city with platfroms son. :V

 

[MK26]

1) knock opponent offstage

2) fearlessly edgeguard cuz the platform is there

3) get yourself and opponent to low platform (mingame him into not going for ledge, or if he has a vertical recovery, just wait)

4) knock opponent off platform

5) spike through platform or other stuff

lack of an edge means your opponent will generally have to come up from underneath, putting him in prime spike position, especially since you can fall through the platform to spike. not to mention tethers geeting ****ed overif they cant get to the platform but still could have made the main ledge...now you have a guy standing on solid ground while you grab the ledge

platform camping anyone?

 

[Finns7]

Is there a way to make 2 different mansion selections, no mansion and one with mansion?

 

[Shell]

The untechable choke fix was inconsistent and buggy. We're looking into alternatives now.

 

[Jimbo_G]

Our Ganon main in our group doesn't think an untechable Choke is really fair. Doesn't it already do decent damage without a follow-up? And what about the tech-chasing opportunities it provided? With the possibility of multiple Chokes and grabs with proper prediction, we thought the move was already plenty useful once you learned how to use it.

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

Our Ganon main in our group doesn't think an untechable Choke is really fair. Doesn't it already do decent damage without a follow-up? And what about the tech-chasing opportunities it provided? With the possibility of multiple Chokes and grabs with proper prediction, we thought the move was already plenty useful once you learned how to use it.

bull
its completely fair xD
its what makes it special "(side) special move"
its the only move in the game that cant be teched thats what makes it special
if its really that overpowered then dont allow follow up attacks

speaking of specials
Ike and Marths counters got killed i htink its cuz of the hitlag
is there any way to have their attack come out faster? or not have that delay when the (countered) attack his them?
if not that i think a damage buff would make up for it or a buff of some sorts

also...Marths sheild breaker doesnt braks sheils when fully charged o-O
im nto talking about powersheilding(wich seems bs to me, being able to do that)
ive had numerous times when a fully cahrged sheild breaker didnt break my enemies sheild... any way to fix that 2?

 

[GHNeko]

1) knock opponent offstage

2) fearlessly edgeguard cuz the platform is there

3) get yourself and opponent to low platform (mingame him into not going for ledge, or if he has a vertical recovery, just wait)

4) knock opponent off platform

5) spike through platform or other stuff

lack of an edge means your opponent will generally have to come up from underneath, putting him in prime spike position, especially since you can fall through the platform to spike. not to mention tethers geeting ****ed overif they cant get to the platform but still could have made the main ledge...now you have a guy standing on solid ground while you grab the ledge

platform camping anyone?

loltheorycrafting.

Also..lack of an edge? wait. wut.


EDIT: OH on the platforms.

Well, they could do the same thing to ivy. :V

 

[Shadic]

Neko - How will it work with the parts of the stage just outside the camera view? Can be make those just not appear?

 

[Alphatron]

Off topic slightly. But is there still no way to make it so that Dedede doesn't automatically pick up a waddle dee near him when pressing A?

 

[GHNeko]

Neko - How will it work with the parts of the stage just outside the camera view? Can be make those just not appear?

I've been thinking about that. I have a way to deal with those but it requires extra work. :V

Off topic slightly. But is there still no way to make it so that Dedede doesn't automatically pick up a waddle dee near him when pressing A?

We had a code like that but it removed his ability to pick up other things. rofl.

 

[Sterowent]

i like this stage. as long as the platforms are still moving, it'd be awesome.

but, the fixed cam angle? kinda sucks. i mean, what about after the cam code is un-rocketed...? (how's that progressing, by the way...)

 

[GHNeko]

Ideally, yea. We want the platforms to still be moving. The only issue I have right now is with the stage outside the camera. But Like I've said, I personally found a work around but I have no clue how plasuable it is without a nice chunk of work lmao.

 

[Dan_X]

We have some things working in the backroom. Let me work up what we have for you here and see what you all think:

Distant Planet - Bigger overall to stop the stalls on the main platform, make the rain come more often (maybe the stage run at 2x) to stop left side camping

Skyworld - Top Blocks Destroyed and bottom are unhittable

Green Hill Zone - Ground cant be hit, spinners have no hitboxes (but have hurtboxes. YEA SPINS!)

Bridge of Eldin - Move the Boundaries so that when the hole appears it removes one side of the battlefield. Move the death boundaries on the non exploded side a bit further out (lose 1/3 of the battle space with no ledge on the exploded side)

Hanenbow - Remove Left Side so its just the main tree

Mario Circuit - Boundaries are wider with the same camera. This way blastzone camping makes you take percent.

Mushroomy Kingdom II - GHNeko's Idea

Pirate Ship - Weaker Bombs and Catapault or just plain make them not happen

Norfair - Faster weaker lava

Halberd - Claw is weaker, or slower, or just plain gone

Spear Pillar - Idea #1: Remove two of the three top pieces and leave one on the side. Make the death boundary on that side closer, and the blown up side a bit further out.
Idea #2: Remove two of the top pieces, make Cresselia permanent, weaken her boomerangs, and make them happen a bit less often

Port Town - Severely weaken KB of cars

New Pork City - Zoom in on the right side so that the left boundary is at the left side of the swinging boat, bottom boundary KOs you before you land on the breakaway floor (or remove it), right side is extended out a bit, and ceiling is unchanged.

Pictochat - Maybe slow it down some more?

Jungle Japes - Slower water, weaker Klap Trap

Onett - Extend Sides

Green Greens - Fix Ike Explosion Glitch

Yoshi's Island (melee) - Expand KO boundaries and fix the lower blocks so that their hurtboxes are on the bottom (meaning only spikes or moves with really low hitboxes can hit them)

Shadow Moses: Current Mansion Treatment (Slower rebuild on the walls). Maybe weaker sides.


/late home from work

We have the codes available to do this kind of stuff now? I'm all for any and all of these changes. Especially changes that remove stupid things from the level such as bombs on pirate ship, etc.

P.S. Neko, any word on the community map pack? Has it been forgotten about? Any fixes for said packs?

For those going on about stages.

My idea for Mushroomy Kingdom 1-2 is

Adjust the bounderies a bit, reduce the HP of all blocks. Lock the camera in that position and maybe zoom out a bit. And we're good. :V

Also, my idea for spear pillar is

Both of them are pimp as hell.

I like your ideas!

 

[timothyung]

The blocks in 1-1/1-2 won't respawn until the stage starts scrolling again.
The stage isn't always fully loaded: only some parts in the front and at the back or the camera are loaded. The blocks "respawns" when they are loaded again.
BTW which side of BoE should we use?

EDIT:
My ideas for some stages:

Oh yeah

You can't camp on the left due to the slope

Freeze the platforms. The upper part has things unloaded.

 

[[TSON]]

Wouldn't you still be able to infinite on Hyrule offscreen? V:

 

[Swordplay]

Don't mess with the bridge

Its a decent doubles stage.....

 

[SymphonicSage12]

<3 the mushroomy kingdom 1-2 idea, Neko. Also, whoever posted the hyrule castle idea, it still wouldn't work cuz you could infinite offscreen (making the boudaries closer would also be bad, cuz u could just throw them off the left side,) and the right boundary is still WAAAAY too close.

 

[timothyung]

<3 the mushroomy kingdom 1-2 idea, Neko. Also, whoever posted the hyrule castle idea, it still wouldn't work cuz you could infinite offscreen (making the boudaries closer would also be bad, cuz u could just throw them off the left side,) and the right boundary is still WAAAAY too close.

The right boundary can certainly be moved further to the right, and the left boundary should be moved so that you won't touch that wall before you die. With that small slope and the platform above camping there shouldn't be effective, and it's so close to the death boundary that you will take damage there.

 

[grim mouser]

Is there a picture of the new SSS somewhere? Currently I can't try it out, and I wonder how it's laid out.

 

[Revven]

HT can never be viable. I tried BBrawl's rendition of it and it's horrible, you can camp below the platform on the left side (near the cave of doom) and basically just pick MK and camp with Uair, nobody can get down there once MK is there.

 

[Plum]

And let's be honest... we all like having lulzy stages to play on every once in a while

Some stages should just be left as is.
Hyrule Temple and Newpork City are examples. There is a point where the effort to make stages viable is just going to ruin the stages further. Yes, some stages have the potential to be highly competitive already but have one flaw to them preventing it (like Port Town or Skyworld), but there is a handful of lost causes. Changing them is going to do more harm then good in the end.

 

[timothyung]

And let's be honest... we all like having lulzy stages to play on every once in a while

Some stages should just be left as is.
Hyrule Temple and Newpork City are examples. There is a point where the effort to make stages viable is just going to ruin the stages further. Yes, some stages have the potential to be highly competitive already but have one flaw to them preventing it (like Port Town or Skyworld), but there is a handful of lost causes. Changing them is going to do more harm then good in the end.

I mean if we have spare time, why now try to make those stages viable. If it does improve the stage to a point that it's certainly tourney viable, keep it. If it does more harm than good, just remove the change.
Now I want to know how I edit the stage boundaries...What value should I input to move the boundary to the desired direction? I want to test it myself.

 

[n88]

And let's be honest... we all like having lulzy stages to play on every once in a while

Some stages should just be left as is.
Hyrule Temple and Newpork City are examples. There is a point where the effort to make stages viable is just going to ruin the stages further. Yes, some stages have the potential to be highly competitive already but have one flaw to them preventing it (like Port Town or Skyworld), but there is a handful of lost causes. Changing them is going to do more harm then good in the end.

This.

Making every stage in the game a neutral stage is boring. There are enough good stages to work with now, IMO. The lulzy stages are part of what makes Smash what it is. Changing them seems unnecessary.

 

[shanus]

I am more conservative on stages and like to preserve the unique aspects of stages as much as possible. This is why, as an example, I'm trying to get more users to try out the longer respawn luigi's mansion rather than simply doing deadlands.

Not every stage needs a drastic overhaul. There are some which can be awesome with minor revisions (aka spear pillar), but overwriting 3/4 of a stage for a small part which is flat is kind of nonsensical. Also, remember we do NOT have the ability to edit spawn points except for on custom stages. This means if a stage redesign cuts off a spawn point, its a no go without a new code.


Edit: 3 posts in a row with the same opinion, unheard of!

 

[weinzey]

wouldnt removing the cars from port town without freezing it at some point result in an extreme disadvantage for characters with a tether recovery (being a lot worse than RC or FO)? and with only one ban, they'd be taken to one of the other two everytime...

 

[Alphatron]

Shanus, would it be possible to add the File Patch 3.5.1 to the 4.1 official plussery gct.

 

[grim mouser]

I noticed Rest is now dark... If I wanted to change the effect, I would modify 613 in these lines, right?...

250F4B64 0E058115
1F327613 002D0000

Example fire would be:

250F4B64 0E058115
1F327605 002D0000

Or am I way off? xD

 

[Roxas215]

I see what your trying to do with mansion shanus but the fact is everyone liked deadlands. Just bring it back!

Anyway some stages needs to be left the way they are. Temple,New Pork,Bridge etc. These stages have no business being tournament viable as they are fun stages everyone likes to play on every now and then. We have more then enough stages that are tournament viable. Not every stage in the game has to be.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Agreed with Phillyrider, although I think the fun of Mushroomy Kingdom is outweighed by the awesomeness of Neko's idea!!!

 

[goodoldganon]

My problem with the game becoming too easy is because whenever a large enough group whines about a weakness, we cave and change it. Ness has always had a ****ty and gimpable recovery but instead of coming up with some cool on the stage tricks we caved and gave his recovery a boost. First it was infinite PKT1 (dumb) and now it's some bizarre SA on down-b with a stupid powerful pushback. I won't lie, it's cool to see what we can do and has a lot of potential, but I'd have rather seen a whole mess of other things tried before we buffed his recovery.

I also don't get why anytime a few people complain that their multi-hit attack didn't connect means we have to change it. Just because the move hits twice doesn't mean you should automatically finish the whole move off because you hit with first part. I'm looking at Zard U-smash, D3, U-air, ZSS F-air and I think Up-b or U-smash, Samus jab, and tons of others. All of those moves worked perfectly fine. If you wanted to KO with ZSS F-air you spaced for the second hit and it's not like you missed the second hit on Zard's U-smash more then you hit. None of these moves are even their bread and butter combo starts or something.

If D-3 had to start his combos with U-air I'd be fine making it link better but instead we decided 'Since I can't space my attack right or my opponent is smart enough to SDI out of this attack we should make it harder to get out of. Because by making all the multi hit moves safe once they start connecting is cool, interesting, and fun. It's never cool or competitive to have an idea backfire on you because you messed up the spacing on it or your opponent was smart'

We are taking too many moves and making them one dimensional and safe because people are arbitrarily deciding how X move should work or how Y weakness shouldn't be there. Instead of waiting, practicing and trying to master the move into our repertoire people complain about it knowing we'll cave and allow them an EZ-mode move.

P.S Deadlands sucked and was boring. Making the Mansion take a while to come back makes the stage an interesting counterpick instead of ANOTHER Final D or Battlefield clone

P.P.S Our desire to change a ton of these stages is fine and dandy for competitive friendlies, but our tourney stage setup should try and draw from what we have. If we adopt too many of these stages we ruin the counterpicking system.

 

[5ive]

P.S Deadlands sucked and was boring. Making the Mansion take a while to come back makes the stage an interesting counterpick instead of ANOTHER Final D or Battlefield clone

At least give us the option to play Deadlands. If you want the mansion, that's fine, make an option for that too. Don't just cut it out without notice. And from my understanding, there are different qualities it has that makes it different from FD and BF; and that doesn't just mean aesthetics. It's not fair that because some of the WBR wanted it out, the rest should suffer.

And the Mansion isn't even that cool. D=<

 

[SymphonicSage12]

My problem with the game become too easy is because whenever a large enough group whines about a weakness, we cave and change it. Ness has always had a ****ty and gimpable recovery but instead of coming up with some cool on the stage tricks we caved and gave his recovery a boost. First it was infinite PKT1 (dumb) and now it's some bizarre SA on down-b with a stupid powerful pushback. I won't lie, it's cool to see what we can do and has a lot of potential, but I'd have rather seen a whole mess of other things tried before we buffed his recovery.

I also don't get why anytime a few people complain that their multi-hit attack didn't connect means we have to change it. Just because the move hits twice doesn't mean you should automatically finish the whole move off because you hit with first part. I'm looking at Zard U-smash, D3, U-air, ZSS F-air and I think Up-b or U-smash, Samus jab, and tons of others. All of those moves worked perfectly fine. If you wanted to KO with ZSS F-air you spaced for the second hit and it's not like you missed the second hit on Zard's U-smash more then you hit. None of these moves are even their bread and butter combo starts or something.

If D-3 had to start his combos with U-air I'd be fine making it link better but instead we decided 'Since I can't space my attack right or my opponent is smart enough to SDI out of this attack we should make it harder to get out of. Because by making all the multi hit moves safe once they start connecting is cool, interesting, and fun. It's never cool or competitive to have an idea backfire on you because you messed up the spacing on it or your opponent was smart'

We are taking too many moves and making them one dimensional and safe because people are arbitrarily deciding how X move should work. Instead of waiting, practicing and trying to master the move into our repertoire people complain about it knowing we'll cave and allow them an EZ-mode move.

P.S Deadlands sucked and was boring. Making the Mansion take a while to come back makes the stage an interesting counterpick instead of ANOTHER Final D or Battlefield clone

mostly agree except for a few points:

1.while ness's downb pushback was meant for offstage, it doesn't help his recovery.
2.Charizard's Usmash is not a combo starter. But it IS his bread and butter for smashes. Just ask a good charizard main and they'll say that usmash is his best smash.

 

[Deleted member]

For the record, I've been saying Ness is fine for ages now.

 

[goodoldganon]

At least give us the option to play Deadlands. If you want the mansion, that's fine, make an option for that too. Don't just cut it out without notice. And from my understanding, there are different qualities it has that makes it different from FD and BF; and that doesn't just mean aesthetics. It's not fair that because some of the WBR wanted it out, the rest should suffer.

And the Mansion isn't even that cool. D=<

I have no idea if a code is possible. Once again, I have no qualms allowing people to play Deadlands if they like it in friendlies but a Mansion level should be used in tourneys for counterpicks. I feel we have enough neutrals at the moment.

EDIT: I've saved myself from being gimped a pretty fair amount by SA'ing an attack and pushing the opponent back to the stage, allowing me to recover. It doesn't help PKT's weakness to projectiles, like infinite PKT did, but I find it a little crazy you think it doesn't help. I'll try and get more practice.

Noted on Zard's U-smash.