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Marth vs. Ness is easily 8-2, maybe even 9-1.I haven't checked the "dont use lucas or ness in tournaments" topic lately, nor do i use characters that can pull it off (), but for those that can, how bad is the marth vs lucas/ness matchup now?
i know how it works....just wondering more if a "counter" of sorts had been found, apparently not, but thanks for the input!
). Once we develop more advanced edge games, I see Meta Knight, Snake, Pit, and others slip on the tiers. Thus-Brawl will become more balanced.)
Which I just made up 5 seconds ago! 
), Ike can mix it up. G'dizzle IDK about, but at least his fB can tech chase, and his dB and fB cover a good range of area (though they are predictable). Overall, the heaviest heavy characters are basically screwed.). Once we learn how to work that, Snake's recovery can easily be countered, and he won't be such a recovery God anymore.You are ********.
The analogy would be better off comparing Chess and Checkers.
See article "Checkers is Solved."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWjyVx4N_1A
No, he's actually right. Johnknight IS ********.
Uh... I can't say I agree with most or any of this. Maybe in the air? Bowser has quite a few of kill moves, several range options, and not all of his are that slow. Jab, F-tilt, D-tilt, and U-tilt all say you're wrong about that last one.
lol at trying to command me with a redundant statement.
You realize the development of high tiers is going to be faster than low tiers. There needs more time before the Fumi of brawl pops up. And where's the top pros losing to low tiers (pc, mew2king, etc)? All I saw in the few videos I watched was decent players losing to low tiers which happens in brawl too.
That seems to be the case here. All these melee players are disappointed with brawl and can't accept that this was the game that they thought would kill melee.
Brawl did add a bunch of options as well. I can't see why so many people are upset about a speed loss and a loss of many pro techniques.
Yes, in return for the options of edgeguarding from the stage, comboing, and moving quickly with nearly any character, we get Spicy Curry Brawl, Subspace Emissary, and Wifi. ; j
Well, wifi is not that bad, and you can still combo. Edge-guarding from the stage and not moving quickly with every character is something you will just have to deal with or work around. Besides, what was wrong with the subspace emissary?
i stopped there....sorry?
I think anyone who followed this thread for a while should be able to agree with this. If Brawl isn't less balanced, it's still just about as balanced at best.
I still think that its too early in the meta game to take the possibility of l-canceling totally out of the equation, however if all your arguments stay valid as we get later into the meta game you do have some good points.
There's no L-canceling on brawl and never will be, only autocanceling. Unless you meant something completely different, in which case I failed to understand your post. <_<
These 'too early' arguments drive me nuts. Thankfully, you weren't comparing the timeline to Melee, which is a ridiculous comparison given the size and talent and dedication differences between the 2001 and 2008 smash communities. But still, it seems to be more a denial argument in most cases rather than an open-minded attitude. If there is a way to decrease the lag on non-auto-cancelled aerials, it either would have been found out by now or, when found out, would probably be way to difficult to implement or repeat.
What do you mean "fixed?" and @ankoku, I think you're right in that we should avoid getting into this other topic and get back to the regular one. The second part I do not agree with =)
But I will have to agree with this. You make a good point. I guess technically I just contradicted myself but whatever go with the second thing.
While we're on the subject of tournaments, the convention I was at last weekend also held a Brawl tournament. We didn't get to finish it for reasons beyond our control, but the rules were standard tournament stuff, so I think it still counts. Top players were represented by G&W, Pokemon Trainer, and Lucas (and possibly Olimar as well if it had lasted long enough to see how well I did in the later rounds, but I honestly can't say for sure).
Well, tiers for Brawl are yet to be determined as new techniques are being discovered, more tournaments need to be held, etc, etc. I guess you have a good point and that this helps my argument...
My guess for next top will be Game and Watch and next bottom will be C. Falcon (although some might say he is the current bottom, or at least was before Samus).
You are ********. Ganondorf is actually worse than Pichu, Kirby, Mewtwo and Bowser in Melee.
I love how you avoid his whole argument and instead pick at little parts of his comment.
