bludhoundz
Smash Ace
Looks like "It's not Lupus."
Edit: firemario beat me to it.
Edit: firemario beat me to it.
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Brawl Character Frame Data
- Thread starter Fire!
- Start date
So. Much. Win. Who made these? I need to send them a congratulatory email.
Also, I just realized how amazing the Wolf image is, as well.
Magus420
Smash Master
The u-tilt, u-smash, and f-air in their list for Luigi are incorrect. It should be:
U-Tilt: 5
U-Smash: 9
F-Air: 7
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=175652
^^ Luigi.
U-Tilt: 5
U-Smash: 9
F-Air: 7
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=175652
^^ Luigi.
Poltergust
Smash Master
Yoshi's f-air is missing... =(
Adapt
Smash Lord
Hype
Smash Lord
thats a lot of work
Hype
Smash Lord
Marth
Down B: frame 5
Ftilt: frame 7
Fsmash: frame 10
Bair: frame 7
Fair: frame 4
Side B: frame 4
this is according to my chart, I suggest you recheck your findings. also im 100% sure that side B and Fair come out of frame 4.
Down B: frame 5
Ftilt: frame 7
Fsmash: frame 10
Bair: frame 7
Fair: frame 4
Side B: frame 4
this is according to my chart, I suggest you recheck your findings. also im 100% sure that side B and Fair come out of frame 4.
Emblem Lord
The Legendary Lord
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Anyone wanna do Marth's full frame data?
I mean first frame hitbox is out and how many frames the hitbox stays out. (active frames) Shield stun and shield hit lag.
Not only for non tippers but for tippers as well.
And of course what the frame disadvantage is on block.
I mean first frame hitbox is out and how many frames the hitbox stays out. (active frames) Shield stun and shield hit lag.
Not only for non tippers but for tippers as well.
And of course what the frame disadvantage is on block.
Hype
Smash Lord
I don't have the technology to do that, I just compiled all the info about frame data that I have got from a bunch of threads. You should ask 3GOD (i think thats his name) he does avlot fo frame data.
MK26
Smash Master
Some of the Kirby stuff might be off (f-tilt is definitely faster than u-tilt) but im stealing it and bringing it8 to the kirby boards for dissection.
brinboy789
Smash Champion
robs dsmash is faster then MK's???
THIS IS MADNESS
THIS IS MADNESS
.selebu
Smash Journeyman
uhm, so how exactly do you get these numbers?
please tell me ^^
please tell me ^^
Judge Judy
Smash Lord
- Joined
- May 18, 2008
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- 1,638
Made in Japan, rediscovered by The Trump Card (ACE).
Crizthakidd
Smash Champion
you guys should of known robs downsmash is faster lol
but yea goood **** on these dude serioussllly the tactical boards are getting somewhere
but yea goood **** on these dude serioussllly the tactical boards are getting somewhere
.selebu
Smash Journeyman
uh, thx
but i mean how do you test that, how do you figure that out
i mean some character boards have very precise framedata for their character
you wont find those in your gamebookelet
basically i want to make tests on framedatas myself
UnSaxon51
Smash Journeyman
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A) This thread wins because of icons.
B) Pretty good info. I'm in the process of putting together full frame data for some of my characters. We'll see how it matches up.
B) Pretty good info. I'm in the process of putting together full frame data for some of my characters. We'll see how it matches up.
Jewdo
Smash Journeyman
Finally, some solid data on Brawl moves! Even if it is just startup time, that's something. Everyone involved is doing a great thing.
Suggestions for the future:
(1) Determine for how many frames the move's hitbox stays out (for non-projectiles)
(2) Determine how many frames of recovery (post-attack lag) each attack has after the hitbox goes away
[edit: DISCLAIMER - if you know what frame data is and how to use it, you will be bored, and possibly offended, by the following simplified example of its possible uses. I'm aware that other fighting games have full frame data available and do much more impressive things with it. I'm just excited that Brawl is getting some solid numbers of its own. Skip the rest of this post if you know what you're doing.]
A complete knowledge of startup, active, and recovery frames for each of a character's attacks will not only tell the player which move comes out faster, but how long each move lasts and how to react to their opponents in all kinds of situations.
For example, say Marth's D-air comes out in 6 frames, but has only 6 active frames and 14 frames of recovery afterward (I know I'm just making this up; this is purely hypothetical). Let's also say that Wolf's N-air comes out in 4 frames. The average human reaction time is around 0.2 seconds, or 12 frames (not making this up), so if Wolf saw Marth whiff a D-air just above him, he would know, for a fact, that he could jump and N-air without fear of missing or being intercepted.
Patterns could also be established, and other facts can emerge that may change the way competitive Brawl strategy is conceived. Just think - if the fastest attacks all came out in two frames, and one of them had wicked knock back, hit stun, range, or damage, the character who had that attack would definitely see some new fans and research come forth.
Also, with that kind of frame data, SBR can investigate Meta Knight's moveset more thoroughly. While it won't be conclusive by itself, it would be one more step toward ending the "is MK broken?" argument once and for all.
Frame data is powerful stuff. Keep up the good work everyone! Looks like things are getting interesting once again.
Suggestions for the future:
(1) Determine for how many frames the move's hitbox stays out (for non-projectiles)
(2) Determine how many frames of recovery (post-attack lag) each attack has after the hitbox goes away
[edit: DISCLAIMER - if you know what frame data is and how to use it, you will be bored, and possibly offended, by the following simplified example of its possible uses. I'm aware that other fighting games have full frame data available and do much more impressive things with it. I'm just excited that Brawl is getting some solid numbers of its own. Skip the rest of this post if you know what you're doing.]
A complete knowledge of startup, active, and recovery frames for each of a character's attacks will not only tell the player which move comes out faster, but how long each move lasts and how to react to their opponents in all kinds of situations.
For example, say Marth's D-air comes out in 6 frames, but has only 6 active frames and 14 frames of recovery afterward (I know I'm just making this up; this is purely hypothetical). Let's also say that Wolf's N-air comes out in 4 frames. The average human reaction time is around 0.2 seconds, or 12 frames (not making this up), so if Wolf saw Marth whiff a D-air just above him, he would know, for a fact, that he could jump and N-air without fear of missing or being intercepted.
Patterns could also be established, and other facts can emerge that may change the way competitive Brawl strategy is conceived. Just think - if the fastest attacks all came out in two frames, and one of them had wicked knock back, hit stun, range, or damage, the character who had that attack would definitely see some new fans and research come forth.
Also, with that kind of frame data, SBR can investigate Meta Knight's moveset more thoroughly. While it won't be conclusive by itself, it would be one more step toward ending the "is MK broken?" argument once and for all.
Frame data is powerful stuff. Keep up the good work everyone! Looks like things are getting interesting once again.
Levitas
the moon
Um... OK?
First off, complete frame data will not make it clear whether MK is broken or not. It's usually used to determine whether combos and other types of strings (blockstrings/shield pressure) work.
More specific data (including wind-down etc) are available on a character by character basis.
Visible hitboxes and frame progression would def. be cool, though. If only we still had the debug menu. Also, if you play lucas as your icon implys, I have more complete data for him.
First off, complete frame data will not make it clear whether MK is broken or not. It's usually used to determine whether combos and other types of strings (blockstrings/shield pressure) work.
More specific data (including wind-down etc) are available on a character by character basis.
Visible hitboxes and frame progression would def. be cool, though. If only we still had the debug menu. Also, if you play lucas as your icon implys, I have more complete data for him.
Jewdo
Smash Journeyman
I've been following and interpreting frame data for awhile now. My post above, and the next two paragraphs, were more for people who've never seen or used it before. I probably just bored you more than anything else. Sorry about that*. ^ ^
*Also, yes - I'd love to see the Lucas frame data. Thank you very much!
While Brawl frame data can't prove by itself that a character is broken, it can be used to SUPPORT claims that a character is broken. For example, say all of a character's moves chain safely into one or two attacks. Suppose those one or two attacks also inflict more frames of hit-stun/block-stun than they have frames of recovery. That would mean, effectively, that the entire character is safe on block, as long as the moves are chained properly. A character who is entirely composed of block strings is an extreme example, yes, but it's entirely possible that block strings exist in Brawl and some characters may have more than others.
On the other hand, frame data can also DISPROVE those claims by showing that said character has hidden disadvantages in his/her move set. It all depends on what's written in the game, of course, so we'll just have to wait and see. That, or aggressively collect the numbers ourselves to speed up the process.
If anybody has yet to, but wants to see, a complete set of frame data, check out Dust Loop's [GGXX^AC Character Frame Data] page. It's pretty impressive, and I hope we can have something similar for Brawl.
I forget whether or not we have such a page for Melee already. I'm sure M2K knows. ^ ^
*Also, yes - I'd love to see the Lucas frame data. Thank you very much!
While Brawl frame data can't prove by itself that a character is broken, it can be used to SUPPORT claims that a character is broken. For example, say all of a character's moves chain safely into one or two attacks. Suppose those one or two attacks also inflict more frames of hit-stun/block-stun than they have frames of recovery. That would mean, effectively, that the entire character is safe on block, as long as the moves are chained properly. A character who is entirely composed of block strings is an extreme example, yes, but it's entirely possible that block strings exist in Brawl and some characters may have more than others.
On the other hand, frame data can also DISPROVE those claims by showing that said character has hidden disadvantages in his/her move set. It all depends on what's written in the game, of course, so we'll just have to wait and see. That, or aggressively collect the numbers ourselves to speed up the process.
If anybody has yet to, but wants to see, a complete set of frame data, check out Dust Loop's [GGXX^AC Character Frame Data] page. It's pretty impressive, and I hope we can have something similar for Brawl.
I forget whether or not we have such a page for Melee already. I'm sure M2K knows. ^ ^
0RLY
A great conversation filler at bars and parties
You're forgetting z-aerials, grabs, and dodges. Otherwise, this is AMAZING! I highly commend all those who have worked to achieve this. Now we only need total frames of the move, IASA, landing lag, shield stun, when the hitbox ends, super armor, invincibility, etc.
brinboy789
Smash Champion
wario's ftilt does NOT come out in 14 frames...MUCH longer...
0RLY
A great conversation filler at bars and parties
SUPER BUMP! This thread is too important to be on page 3.
xXTACXx
Smash Journeyman
Thank You so much for posting this although I don't think it will affect Brawl nearly as greatly as it has Melee.
Judge Judy
Smash Lord
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- 1,638
I don't know why this thread was revived but a few of the moves are off by a frame.
Browny
Smash Hater
Yes... because real life is measured in frames >_<
thats how long it takes for the hitbox to come out after the character begins the attack
thats how long it takes for the hitbox to come out after the character begins the attack
Tristan_win
Not dead.
No, every command you put into the game takes 1 frame to be read and inputted before it can begin.
So really it takes 2 frames of game frame data to come out.