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who said he was? isent the point of this balanceing to make the chars closer together on the teir list? as i said in my much longer post on link... his problems are his unreliable kill moves and his pitifull recovery.. thats it but thats enough to make him one of the worst chars in the game. 
So what if he is Isai? He knows how to play the character and shows you that link isn't that bad if you know what your doing. But in any case, you pretty much stated my point anyway
Dair->f-smash is like, the coolest combo ever!!
Do you know how ridiculously easier it would be to gimp Ike if he DIDN'T have SA.. he is a sitting duck before he rises up... literally.. he's just sitting in the air. His recovery is easy to gimp as it is..
REGISTER PEOPLE! THEN POST ON THE ANNOUNCEMENTS THREAD! Thank you for your time.
Yes, I know how ridiculously easy it would be to gimp Ike if it didn't have SA. They could've also just given him a faster up B and accomplished the same goal, instead of going with this gimmick.
Yeah, Ike introduced us to super armor (in smash anyway), but really...how often do you use it (outside of recovering)?
Matt Im sorry but Im also sick of hearing you say link and stuff are not viable and how much they suck and that he gets gimped by almost everyone. Maybe if you playing a smarter link you wouldn't get gimped as much. If a ZSS can't get gimped that easily link shouldn't either if you can DI properly.
Why should they get SA on their moves? And what moves in the earlier games had SA?On the topic of SA frames (which I know I'm really late on), I think that the concept itself is perfectly fine, it's just on some akward moves. In other games, SA frames are on slow moves and they are clearly defined to just a few frames. Basically, it makes slower moves a little bit safer to throw out every now and then (especially moves that you can't combo into), but they still retain obvious counters (grabs for one, and just adjusting the timing of your attack). Brawl made the mistake of putting SA on a fast attack (Wario's f-smash), recovery move (Aether), and grabs (wtf?) which unfortunately turned a lot of people away from the concept in general. When you look at DK's Giant Punch or Ike's eruption, you can easily see some of the more strategic, but less stupid, applications.
When I sugested that Bowser's f-smash have super armor, I specifically stated that it should not be for all of the start up. I'd put the super armor on the release portion of the attack (after the point where you can start charging), so that you can still beat it out early on if they throw it out when you're close, and you could just wait if they sit there charging it. The point would be to use Bowser's f-smash as a counter for predictable approaches (and quite a powerful counter at that). Basically, it's giving Bowser a relatively easy to land kill move, provided that you can predict your opponent.
Dair->f-smash is like, the coolest combo ever!!
I can't see gimping ike being any easier without the SA frames seeing how he loses them at the peak of his up b. Yoshi has SA on his recovery because he has no good third jump to recover with. Ike does and should be on the same page as the rest of the people and the same goes with DDD. There is no reason why they should have SA on their moves. People need to learn to space themselves and time their moves correctly instead getting a license to be sloppy and plow through attacks. Attacks should not plow through other attacks unless they out prioritize it.
Guilty Gear Potemkin says hi.
Marth's up B, Sonic's side B, Sonic's up Smash, and every other move with invincibility frames says hi. Heck, I've seen people use rest to go through attacks (in melee).
Im talking about a smash game and last I checked, yoshis DJ is not an attack and yoshi doesn't have a triple jump. So the SA DJ makes up for his recovery issue. And also, yoshi has heavy armor (not sure the name) not SA because a strong enough move can stop his DJ or if yoshi is at a certain damage. I forget which. All the other players don't have this recovery issue and thus should be subjected to the same system. DDD has what 5 jumps? plus a half SA up b? Really?
What are you talking about? Jiggs still has to time the move with a very small window and if she misses she gets knocked away. Not true for say Ikes eruption. You can miss time it a little and still be fine. Nintendo really introduced some stupid mechanics imo. Whats wrong with trading hits? That is what should happen.
Yes. Ganon for example is a slow and strong character that is meant to plow through attacks with high priority moves because he is slow. Ike on the other hand maybe slow but he has disjointed hitboxs and and rather good up b that protects him. Why should he be given SA moves anyway? And why does Marth have SA on his up b? It makes no sense!
I don't think there is a code for it.
I'm a Link main and I agree. But I don't think he needs a buff on anything except Up+B (air AND ground, damage AND distance) and his f-smash's knockback. That's really all that he needs.
Yoshi's jump heavy armor is over ridden when a move would cause a certain amount of knockback to him (which makes it both). And Yoshi players often use this feature to go through attacks. Whether they do so offensively or defensively is a moot point. The mechanic lets them go through other players attacks and have the opportunity to counter attack.
She has 10 frames of invincibility. That's not a "very small window" Though the hitbox being small makes it a little difficult.
Invincible moves do not trade hits. And Ike's erruption is much harder to time than the examples I posted (minus Jigglypuff because of how small the hitbox is).
Except I cancel his attacks with Sonic's/Marth's/ect invincibility frames.
Marth has invincibility on his up B so that the move is actually...useful. It makes a great move for getting out of shield pressure, since Marth's other defenses are pretty bad. He's got a mediocre spotdodge, a mediocre roll, average grab game, ect. Up B OoS is Marth's fastest option, but even then 6 frames (1 frame to jump cancel+ 5 frames of startup) is still not enough to out speed anything.
How about super armor was a bad idea on those characters. And MK doesn't have super armor, he's got 1 frame of invincibility on his up B (I personally think it's only there so that he doesn't get interrupted mid animation, but It's found a lot of competitive use).
SA moves are not overkill by nature, rather it's the moves that they put it on. You're bashing the mechanic as a whole, when it obviously has some non broken applications...that just weren't implemented. Bowser's f-smash having super armor (or even just heavy armor) would make the move usable, but not broken. Also, I think that you're missing one important point that I'm trying to say. I don't want the whole move to have super armor. The amount of super armor I'd be suggesting would be no more than 5 frames (maybe not even that). And those 5 frames would be placed after the start up lag of the attack. In other words, Bowser would still have to start the f-smash early, start charging, and time the release to make use of the SA.
