Beyond the Chozo Guide: Seven Ways to Take Your Samus to the Next Level**

[Orichalcum]

So do you actually use this refreshing moves while playing? Because i never thought of doing something like that while playing allthough i know of it. If so what would be a good example to do?

edit: ok sorry lol i should read more but more examples would be nice D:

 

[Xyro77]

There's still possibly unexplored benefits to decaying moves.




I think, in particular, decaying UpSmash makes it better. It's only a nuisance to followup after a fresh one, if you even finish it.

Also, I'm confused about Dsmash. I've never killed with it. Such a bad trajectory for that! I use it to cover my *** and punish, saving Fsmash completely.



But... we should always pummel. I mean Samus can get like four or five off on people with higher percents, 80-100 around there. Maybe more, I'm not remembering.

Yes you are right, there MIGHT be some new combos discovered with a stale up-smash. But honestly, why would you ever use up-smash to the point it becomes stale?

So do you actually use this refreshing moves while playing? Because i never thought of doing something like that while playing allthough i know of it. If so what would be a good example to do?

edit: ok sorry lol i should read more but more examples would be nice D:

examples:

1. If you are on smashville, be the first on to hit the balloon. Yes it only refreshes one slot to all your moves(except the one you used to break it) but its something u can go for.

2. Luigis mansion. What i do is every time im away from my foe, ill jab cancel the polls 5-6 time(or all 9 if i can) and refresh all my moves.

3. When on castle siege(sp?) i just shoot random super missles(cause i dont use them as much) at the statues....BOOM! Refreshes other moves.

4. Yoshi island, ill hit those shy guys. It refreshes moves and it gets them out of your way.

5. Green Greens/yoshi island pipes. Hit the blocks when ever you can. refreshes moves.





all of these breakable that refresh your moves should be hit WHENEVER possible. Its basicly whats KEEPING you KO moves able to KO earlier. Oh also, when you lose a stock, you get fully refreshed.

 

[Orichalcum]

Luigis mansion and and castle siege!! should have thought about that xD but i thought it has only has to with hitting the opponent. thanks for the input sounds very right to me

 

[Crystanium]

But... we should always pummel. I mean Samus can get like four or five off on people with higher percents, 80-100 around there. Maybe more, I'm not remembering.

"Samus can get like four or five" hits, but it doesn't work the same. Tapping A repeatedly in a quick manner does not act like tapping A repeatedly in a slow manner. If you did nine Chozo Chops on your opponent really quick, the refresh system would not refresh Samus' Charge Shot back to 26%. It has to be done slowly. It's "Tap. Tap. Tap," not "Tap, Tap, Tap." It will refresh, but not fully.

 

[Orichalcum]

I noticed it the same when i press it really really fast every third or such could miss kind off like a scratch hit. most noticeable on bowser. you can miss every *****slap on him

 

[PK-ow!]

"Samus can get like four or five" hits, but it doesn't work the same. Tapping A repeatedly in a quick manner does not act like tapping A repeatedly in a slow manner. If you did nine Chozo Chops on your opponent really quick, the refresh system would not refresh Samus' Charge Shot back to 26%. It has to be done slowly. It's "Tap. Tap. Tap," not "Tap, Tap, Tap." It will refresh, but not fully.

Oh yeah, that thing. . . .

So how do we know exactly how slow we have to do it? Is there a video demonstration of the fastest functioning method rate?

. . .

And actually, the matter is more complicated than that. I mean, if I can land a certain amount more damage now, X, and the freshness I *don't* get back because of it isn't greater than X, I should still go for that many Chozo chops. Right?

EDIT: Also, I finally found a way to put Samus left of Marth in my sig while keeping it not ugly. Rejoice. ^_^

 

[Crystanium]

Oh yeah, that thing. . . .

So how do we know exactly how slow we have to do it? Is there a video demonstration of the fastest functioning method rate?

Easy. Tap the A button. Once Samus completes her Chozo Chop animation, tap A again. I'm not saying tapping the A button repeatedly in a quick manner won't make refresh your attacks. I'm saying that at a quick pace, it doesn't refresh the same way.

. . .

And actually, the matter is more complicated than that. I mean, if I can land a certain amount more damage now, X, and the freshness I *don't* get back because of it isn't greater than X, I should still go for that many Chozo chops. Right?

I don't understand what you're asking here. I think you're making things more complicated than they need to be, though.

 

[PK-ow!]

Easy. Tap the A button. Once Samus completes her Chozo Chop animation, tap A again. I'm not saying tapping the A button repeatedly in a quick manner won't make refresh your attacks. I'm saying that at a quick pace, it doesn't refresh the same way.



I don't understand what you're asking here. I think you're making things more complicated than they need to be, though.

I could be looking into complication that doesn't pay up, but it is possibly useful.

You said that one should make use of one's time grabbing an opponent, using Chozo chops at a certain rate, R, so as to refresh moves. The amount of damage you get back would be, as it happens, a constant factor of the damage of the move, K, fixed by its current staleness and the number of Chops you land. Let's just focus on Charge Shot. I need to pick one particular move because the damage factor increase is different for any two moves which are staled to different levels. Call Charge Shot's base damage D.

Using the Chops at Rate R leads to an amount of damage, C, which they deal. But this isn't the most damage you could deal during that grab. I could deal P damage. To do it, I have to use Chops at a faster rate, F, but if I do that, then, by this property you reminded me of, I would not freshen other moves as much. I would freshen them by a factor of some amount L < K; L still dependent on the stale level of the move in question, but apparently counting less Chops than with rate R, even though I landed more.

The question is if the damage I could gain with the chops right now, (P-C), is greater than the damage that I give myself by slowing to rate R, which is equal to (K-L)*D.

While, in addition to charge shot, counts for any move with the same staleness, this is far from complete.
Aside from needing to account for that it's not just one move I'll go on to use, I would want to account for how those moves then freshen each other.

I don't see a way to avoid a hugely ugly separation of cases.
Perhaps one question to ask is, how many Chops does the stale counter miss in the typical scenario? Does it count, like, one of four?

The question is can it ever count as many of the fast chops as the slower ones that you can do in the same time, or something close?

 

[tha_carter]

****, you took this topic and ran with it Xyro. Good stuff; posts like that are going ot make it a real successful thread.

A couple things i can add is that all multi hit moves become harder to SDI out of when theyre decayed. Keep that in mind, especually when it comes to UpB and UpSmash. It will be less damage; but less oppurtunity to SDI out and punish you for it. Its a great trade off.

And just to confirm the Chozo chops are a great way to refresh moves. If the opponent is anywhere above 80%, one grab should always lead to 3 chops and a throw. Which fills 4 slots.

We'll continue with this topic until sunday,and if there are no better topic suggestions before then, i have one.

Stage tricks should be talked about in "Analyzing the Field of Battle" thread. Ill mention any stage tricks i know there.

TOPIC SUGGESTIONS!

Moderator Note:

Please do not censor dodge. That is against the rules, and you can be infracted for that. I suggest you go and read the rules right now. I edited the "D" word for you.

 

[Xyro77]

I could be looking into complication that doesn't pay up, but it is possibly useful.

You said that one should make use of one's time grabbing an opponent, using Chozo chops at a certain rate, R, so as to refresh moves. The amount of damage you get back would be, as it happens, a constant factor of the damage of the move, K, fixed by its current staleness and the number of Chops you land. Let's just focus on Charge Shot. I need to pick one particular move because the damage factor increase is different for any two moves which are staled to different levels. Call Charge Shot's base damage D.

Using the Chops at Rate R leads to an amount of damage, C, which they deal. But this isn't the most damage you could deal during that grab. I could deal P damage. To do it, I have to use Chops at a faster rate, F, but if I do that, then, by this property you reminded me of, I would not freshen other moves as much. I would freshen them by a factor of some amount L < K; L still dependent on the stale level of the move in question, but apparently counting less Chops than with rate R, even though I landed more.

The question is if the damage I could gain with the chops right now, (P-C), is greater than the damage that I give myself by slowing to rate R, which is equal to (K-L)*D.

While, in addition to charge shot, counts for any move with the same staleness, this is far from complete.
Aside from needing to account for that it's not just one move I'll go on to use, I would want to account for how those moves then freshen each other.

I don't see a way to avoid a hugely ugly separation of cases.
Perhaps one question to ask is, how many Chops does the stale counter miss in the typical scenario? Does it count, like, one of four?

The question is can it ever count as many of the fast chops as the slower ones that you can do in the same time, or something close?

Just KNOW this.

Grab, chozo chop x3, up throw.

i fillled 4 slots. and did about 14-16%

this is pretty much the SAFEST grab combo





Possible Topics:

Bombs( find SOME thing slightly usefull with them)

Frames(we could all mod our wiis(its not perm) pick a few moves each and report back with the data)

 

[Crystanium]

I could be looking into complication that doesn't pay up, but it is possibly useful.

You said that one should make use of one's time grabbing an opponent, using Chozo chops at a certain rate, R, so as to refresh moves. The amount of damage you get back would be, as it happens, a constant factor of the damage of the move, K, fixed by its current staleness and the number of Chops you land. Let's just focus on Charge Shot. I need to pick one particular move because the damage factor increase is different for any two moves which are staled to different levels. Call Charge Shot's base damage D.

Using the Chops at Rate R leads to an amount of damage, C, which they deal. But this isn't the most damage you could deal during that grab. I could deal P damage. To do it, I have to use Chops at a faster rate, F, but if I do that, then, by this property you reminded me of, I would not freshen other moves as much. I would freshen them by a factor of some amount L < K; L still dependent on the stale level of the move in question, but apparently counting less Chops than with rate R, even though I landed more.

The question is if the damage I could gain with the chops right now, (P-C), is greater than the damage that I give myself by slowing to rate R, which is equal to (K-L)*D.

While, in addition to charge shot, counts for any move with the same staleness, this is far from complete.
Aside from needing to account for that it's not just one move I'll go on to use, I would want to account for how those moves then freshen each other.

I don't see a way to avoid a hugely ugly separation of cases.
Perhaps one question to ask is, how many Chops does the stale counter miss in the typical scenario? Does it count, like, one of four?

The question is can it ever count as many of the fast chops as the slower ones that you can do in the same time, or something close?

Bro, you're complicating the matter. This is Brawl, not Calculus. Just do this. Go and use Samus. Stale your Charge Shot. The weakest it can and will ever get is 11%. (No, I did not learn this frm Xyro77's recent video. I've done all of this myself prior to that video.) Once you do that, grab Mario and use your Chozo Chop really fast nine times. After that, fire your Charge Shot at Mario. Be sure to count the number of times you use your Chozo Chop when you're doing it fast. It should be nine. After that, stale your Charge Shot again back to 11%. Make Mario walk off the stage again so he's at 0%. Do the same thing, but this time, wait for the entire animation of the Chozo Chop to stop. I assure you, nine fast hits versus nine slow hits will not give you the same results. It's that easy.

 

[Hive]

lol refreshing moves.... i'm not sure how we ever talked this much about it lol
i'm not saying that's bad though ^^

 

[Cherry64]

Possible Topics:

Bombs( find SOME thing slightly usefull with them)

Frames(we could all mod our wiis(its not perm) pick a few moves each and report back with the data)

I Tried hacking my Wii like a month ago, and whether I am jsut a ****** or something, it didn't work, I asked Q's about it and got answers but it STILL didn't work. guess you could say I was kind of choked yes.

 

[DelxDoom]

I could be looking into complication that doesn't pay up, but it is possibly useful.

You said that one should make use of one's time grabbing an opponent, using Chozo chops at a certain rate, R, so as to refresh moves. The amount of damage you get back would be, as it happens, a constant factor of the damage of the move, K, fixed by its current staleness and the number of Chops you land. Let's just focus on Charge Shot. I need to pick one particular move because the damage factor increase is different for any two moves which are staled to different levels. Call Charge Shot's base damage D.

Using the Chops at Rate R leads to an amount of damage, C, which they deal. But this isn't the most damage you could deal during that grab. I could deal P damage. To do it, I have to use Chops at a faster rate, F, but if I do that, then, by this property you reminded me of, I would not freshen other moves as much. I would freshen them by a factor of some amount L < K; L still dependent on the stale level of the move in question, but apparently counting less Chops than with rate R, even though I landed more.

The question is if the damage I could gain with the chops right now, (P-C), is greater than the damage that I give myself by slowing to rate R, which is equal to (K-L)*D.

While, in addition to charge shot, counts for any move with the same staleness, this is far from complete.
Aside from needing to account for that it's not just one move I'll go on to use, I would want to account for how those moves then freshen each other.

I don't see a way to avoid a hugely ugly separation of cases.
Perhaps one question to ask is, how many Chops does the stale counter miss in the typical scenario? Does it count, like, one of four?

The question is can it ever count as many of the fast chops as the slower ones that you can do in the same time, or something close?

I like you

just do max damage with chops... up throw, grab them again when they land

heheheh

 

[IsmaR]

Possible Topics:

Bombs( find SOME thing slightly usefull with them)

Please, please, please, PLEASE tell me you are being sarcastic. I already lost all my hope for you, I don't want to lose it for Samus mainers.

 

[Xyro77]

Please, please, please, PLEASE tell me you are being sarcastic. I already lost all my hope for you, I don't want to lose it for Samus mainers.

what???????

 

[tha_carter]

FIRST POST WAS UPDATED

I highly suggest you read the "MUST READ" sections of each topic; its really good information! Thanks Xyro, for that post!

THE NEW TOPIC IS BUFFERING!
Just so people ATLEAST have a good understanding of what it is, i dug this up...
I highly suggest reading!

I don't think the forum has a buffering guide yet, which is a shame, because buffering affects gameplay on a fundamental level - the way we're allowed to give our characters inputs. In light of that, I decided to do research on Brawl's buffering system and put a guide together.

What IS buffering?

Buffering is a feature found in many fighting games. It allows you to enter a command before your character is done with its current action (within a certain time frame, of course,) and the command will execute as soon as your character can perform that action. In other words, it lets you enter commands early. Now that you know what buffering is, let's take a look at how Brawl handles buffering.

General Rules

- The game will retain inputs for slightly more than 1/5th of a second (~13 frames). I tested this in Training Mode, by setting the speed to 1/4 timing how late I can buffer a move with a stopwatch (and obviously, dividing that time by 4.)

- Inputs are handled in the same order they're received. For example, if you're landing from an air dodge and input {Y, Y, Forward + A} shortly before you land, your character will jump, then immediately double jump, and immediately start a forward air.

Buffering on the ground

- If you're holding Back, Forward, Down, or Shield at the time that your character becomes able to act, it'll simply start to walk, crouch, or put up its shield and "forget" to do any action you might've buffered. So if you plan on buffering a Forward Smash or Down Smash using the Analog Stick, don't forget to return it to its initial position. Unfortunately, this also means that buffering a dash is a pain in the *** - you have to buffer the dash, return the stick to neutral, and then hold forward after your character's dash comes out if you want to continue running.

- The above rule has a minor exception - if you buffer a move after a Down Tilt, holding down won't cancel the buffer because your character is already crouching anyways.

Buffering in the air

- There are no commands that'll cancel buffering while in the air.

- Like in Melee, you can buffer a mid-air jump or a Meteor Cancel while stunned. (Careful, though, hitting the Jump button too early will prevent you from Meteor Canceling with the Jump button. However, there's no penalty for using the analog stick.)

- You can't buffer early air dodges, aerials, or Z Button tethers while stunned from an attack.

- Landing during an air dodge has the same lag as landing normally, so you can air dodge before you land to buffer your next move without doing any aerials.

Buffering while in Shield Hit Lag

- You can't buffer rolls during hit lag; the game just interprets it as Smash DI. Can't buffer sidesteps either. You have to wait for hit lag to be over and buffer them during shield stun instead.

NOTE: Buffering while in shield hit lag is a little bit weird...the game seems to handle it differently when an attack has a very large amount of Hit Lag. I've noticed that the game will retain inputs made during the hit lag from shielding far longer than the usual time frame (for example, inputting a shieldgrab while shielding the Halberd's beam, or while shielding two of Samus's Charge Shots back to back.) Putting two and two together, maybe the game handles the commands differently because you're inputting them outside the time frame for "real" buffering? In any case...

- If the attack has a very large amount of hit lag (e.g. Samus's fully charged Charge Shot, Dedede's F-Smash), only Jump and Shieldgrab inputs can be buffered. If a Shieldgrab is buffered, it always takes precedence over jumping, even if you input the jump first. To buffer other actions, you have to wait until hit lag is over and your character enters the shield stun + knockback phase.

- If the attack has "normal" amounts of hit lag (i.e. most attacks would fall into this category), buffering seems to behave as it normally would.

Buffering while in Shield Stun

- Unlike buffering during hit lag, I didn't find any quirks in the buffering system in this phase.

- If you aren't holding the shield button when your character comes out of stun, any buffered commands will be forgotten and your character will simply drop its shield. (You can, however, buffer a move during those few frames of lag you get from dropping your shield.) You can also override buffered commands with a roll or sidestep as soon as your character becomes unstunned, but the timing makes it impractical.

Examples/Applications

- Buffering an attack during the landing lag of an aerial.
- Buffering an attack during the lag time from dropping your shield.
- Buffering JC'd Up Smashes, Up Bs, or aerials out of the shield.
- Buffering dash-grabs during Dedede's chaingrab.
- Buffering shines during Fox's reflector semi-infinite wall combos for greater precision.
- Buffering a shine when performing "jump-canceled" shines with Fox.
- Buffering the next attack in a combo (e.g. buffering an up-tilt after Fox's d-air, or an up-tilt after ZSS's dash attack.)
- Buffering a Dash Attack and Up Smash while your character is lagging from something else to perform Smash Boosting easily.
- Buffering an Air Dodge during the start-up frames of your ground jump to air dodge immediately.

IN SHORT (for all you lazy people):
Buffering is inputting a command WHILE your character is still in an animation. The benefit of this would be the command coming out on the first available frame. Or even a step ahead of that; before the first available frame. (someone talk about IASA frames)

This has been a breakthrough technique for some characters (defensively and offensively), hopefully it can prove to be a useful topic to discuss with samus. Buffering shield dashes let king Dedede CG more characters (samus was one). Buffering grabs let pikachu make some matchups unwinnable! Buffering UpB lets marth get out of Mach Tornados and Snake's Nair early AND deal damages. Bowser buffering grab releases gave him plenty of garunteed kill options...

Lets hear some ideas! Ill be sharing some of mine tomorrow....

 

[RaigothDagon]

One very nifty use of buffering was brought out by Xyro in one of his first posts. Using uair to a buffered up b shield pokes and almost certainly works against larger characters. Another useful thing probably everyone does is buffer a dtilt from a fair. However, that combination should probably be mixed up with jabs to keep from being predictable, because we all know how punishable a shielded dtilt is. Another thing that I know I tend to do is buffer dtilt or jab from a nair. For me, I find nair more useful than fair, because you may also buffer a dsmash which people tend to fall for more often than dtilt.

 

[n00b]

oh God i have talked about buffering so much in the past and I got nothing but crap for it

 

[DelxDoom]

buffering is much more important in Street Fighteresque type games


i think it's pretty cool in brawl tho

 

[PK-ow!]

Hey, I was going to create a thread for a 'discovery' I had but it actually fits here nicely.

Please tell me this is actually new.
Well, it's not a new technique, but it is a marvelously easy input for something that I think one would want to do often, without worrying about a mistake.

Have you ever wanted to charge cancel into a short hop zair? Well now you can.

Simply charge cancel, hold shield, and tap jump OoS with a buffered down C-stick input.

Here's what you get. You tap jump out of shield because it makes the C-stick input shorten the jump. You use zair because you're holding shield when you hit C, which counts as Attack. You're using C-stick for the previous two properties. And charge cancel to shield to jump has almost no overhead cost in frames, so it's fast.

Now, it's not trivial, as sometimes I full hop. But it is only because I haven't flicked C fast enough, and it happens only if I also hold the control stick up too long. That is, you only have to be able to do one of these things right, and it will work. So, by implication, people who are good with tap jump short hops should do this no problem. People who aren't, just have to flick C fast enough after the jump.

I hope I haven't wasted words on old news. In that case though, consider this a contribution to the topic, of this form: Hey guys, do this. Zair people out of Neutral Special charging. *weeeeeee*

 

[Cherry64]

Can you buffer any move if you use the right frames? if you could then we should try to find Set ups for kill moves. Buffer an U air to a Fully charged shot or a D tilt or something.

 

[LanceStern]

If you set C-stick to smashes, you can buffer an Up B out of morph ball bomb. It's really cool.

I think we've already been buffering fully charged shots/d tilts from Upairs and nairs.

 

[Cherry64]

If you set C-stick to smashes, you can buffer an Up B out of morph ball bomb. It's really cool.

I think we've already been buffering fully charged shots/d tilts from Upairs and nairs.

True. Loll How would dropping a bomb to an U smash be any good though?

 

[Xyro77]

True. Loll How would dropping a bomb to an U smash be any good though?

its not. His point was we can buffer stuff out of bombs so maybe if we all focus and buffer everything we can out of bombs, we might discover things.

 

[Cherry64]

its not. His point was we can buffer stuff out of bombs so maybe if we all focus and buffer everything we can out of bombs, we might discover things.

Pretty sure you can buffer a D tilt from it. I've tried it before and it worked on Wi-Fi.

 

[Xyro77]

Pretty sure you can buffer a D tilt from it. I've tried it before and it worked on Wi-Fi.

yes you can.

but see what i taught alot of you? buffer an UP+B froma falling uair and its works 85-90% of the time. Other cool thing is buffering UP+Bs out of airdodge.

 

[Cherry64]

Woah. That didn't even cross my mind lol.
although when you UP B in the air it does considerable less knock back. honestly half the cast will land before you.

 

[tha_carter]

Id like to hear more about these bomb buffering shananigans....

IASA Frames; anybody have info on that?

OoS options? With other characters i would buffer a Dair out of shield, but since the attack button + shield= zair, its fairly hard to do with samus. What are some ways around that? Or better option OoS, because UpB is far too risky sometimes.

Ill record and post my input on buffering tomorrow.

 

[Ravin]

Can someone make a video (Like that SDI one someone did)

It would be very useful.

 

[Xyro77]

Woah. That didn't even cross my mind lol.
although when you UP B in the air it does considerable less knock back. honestly half the cast will land before you.

Though u can do what i told you iin the air. I was talking about it from the ground. both work

 

[Cherry64]

Airdodge to Up B in the air doesn't work nearly as well though, that was my point lol.
I didn't realize you meant airdodging and buffering the UpB from the ground. That would work well yes.


IMPORTANT! I figured out you can Buffer UpB from z Air it's kinda good if they jump over z air and think they have you. Ir you could do the like b**** whip thing AKA the start of TGM combo, then UpB them. I wonder what else you can buffer fromZair, Maybe a sweet lil F smash! I'ma go try, and if it works it's going to be my new fave Killing move.

well F smash doesn't but D tilt does, I dunno if it comes out faster than F smash does or not but either way it's almost impossible to land

 

[tha_carter]

Here's a random video i did with some of the things you can do with buffering out of jab
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQb7_1E4H8g

I find the most useful is the parts to be around the 0:24, and 1:06 mark. Fading back and Fsmashing has reduced the amount i get shield by ALOT! Some of the other things could prove to have uses as well.

Hopefully this can spark some of the POTENTIAL, this topic could have.

As i said; SOMEONE should test what multi hit moves samus can buffer an UpB out of. Her aerial upb is amasing, and chances are it could be buffered, in defence, out of Snakes Nair and marth's sideb, or even falco's Jab>grab.

 

[Crystanium]

I've already done the jab to one direction, jab to another, before. If you can actually use it in a match, it's useful. The jab to retreating f-smash was unique, though. I'll have to try that one out. I've used the jab to reverse d-tilt before in my matches agaiinst a Mario main named Boshi. Good video, though.

 

[DelxDoom]

Her aerial up b is ridiculously punishable at low percents but I can see the uses of it now actually.

 

[NO-IDea]

Aerial up+B isn't worth it. As you said, it's far too punishable, not to mention if they DI out, you're stuck on in the air waiting to get screwed (heh, pun.)

Get back on the ground and restart your aerial harassing if you can, otherwise, just back off and wait for the next opportunity.

ONLY possible situation I can see a good use of aerial Up+B is on BF, when you've weakened the shield while their on a platform but you've run out of jumps.

 

[Xyro77]

Her aerial up b is ridiculously punishable at low percents but I can see the uses of it now actually.

finally! you are the first to see what im seeing

 

[DelxDoom]

It has ridiculously good priority, it's just going to screw you over if it doesn't hit.

 

[IsmaR]

I've killed someone with an aerial Up B. /notuseless

Really though, no durr it'll leave you open if you use it at the wrong time. It's risky, but the payoff can be worth it.

 

[Cherry64]

I've killed someone with an aerial Up B. /notuseless

Really though, no durr it'll leave you open if you use it at the wrong time. It's risky, but the payoff can be worth it.

Are you kidding me?? Who are you fighting that is letting you do this?
Was it a mediocre percent and you double jumped then Up B'd and killed him? I honestly can't see this at all.

Nor would it be any help unless you learned how to spike them using Up B