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Balancing Brawl+

SymphonicSage12

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 6, 2009
Messages
3,299
get him off the stage.


edge hog.


oh snap boi.


and if your opponent can win by just pressing the c stick, then you must not be very good.



and gamesystem, he's saying that he wants it so that Olimar can't win by just pressing the c stick.


Which he can't. Learn to play.
 

GameSystem

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 1, 2008
Messages
314
Wait, are you saying that Olimar isn't viable or you don't want him to be a character that is only viable because of c-stick?
 

Naucitos

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 29, 2006
Messages
402
Location
Rhode island
who cares if its AiB. They're character boards. Man up and use your resources.



I did. You mentioned how half of OP was trying to get people to talk about matchups to balance the game and I gave you a link to a place where not only match up discussion is allowed, but encouraged to the utmost degree.
I was just saying that because i don't think the smashboards rules like advertising.
Where we should REALLY be having matchup discussions is the brawplus forum, where we wouldn't have had to worry about outside restrictions at all, and it would be a good place to have brawplus related discussions in a central forum instead of split up. I personally dislike forums to a fairly large extent, i'm not going to be visiting multiple forums, smashboards alone is pushing it

Characters with little representation, likeolimar, ike, etc. get way t little attention. However, i think he was saying olilmar is underpowered, but his post was very ambiguous, as well as not what i'm trying to talk about
 

RyuReiatsu

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 17, 2009
Messages
408
get him off the stage.


edge hog.


oh snap boi.


and if your opponent can win by just pressing the c stick, then you must not be very good.



and gamesystem, he's saying that he wants it so that Olimar can't win by just pressing the c stick.


Which he can't. Learn to play.
That, coming from a guy that can't SHDF. :laugh:
I'm pretty sure he doesn't speak literally... But Olimar is somehow pretty simple to be honest.
 

V-K

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 26, 2009
Messages
540
Location
Germany
I don´t want him to be so strong that easy. I mean his Smash attacks are fast have big range and almost no lag so it´s is really annoying if people do that all the time.
If his smash had some lag after the attack he couldn´t spam it all the time.

BTW: I don´t say I lose all the time against Olimar spammers but it´s still kinda annoying that this is so effective.
 

SymphonicSage12

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 6, 2009
Messages
3,299
His point still stands. Learn to man up and use your resources.


and SHDF, with two FULL Fairs, is ****ing impossible. I can ****ing prove it. so **** you you ****er. It's ****ing impossible with his gravity and SH height.



TWO FAIRS IN A SHORT HOP IS POSSIBLE. BUT TWO FULL ONES ISNT. IT ISNT POSSIBLE LIKE IT WAS IN vBRAWL
 

GHNeko

Sega Stockholm Syndrome.
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
20,009
Location
テキサス、アメリカ
NNID
GHNeko
It wasnt directly aimed at you, it was more of a general thing, and AiB/Smashboards have resources that BP-Net wouldnt have. Plus Brawlplus.net is hosted on MY server and I'd rather not have my bandwidth go POOF and then start having issues due to bandwidth limits. :V
 

RyuReiatsu

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 17, 2009
Messages
408
His point still stands. Learn to man up and use your resources.


and SHDF, with two FULL Fairs, is ****ing impossible. I can ****ing prove it. so **** you you ****er. It's ****ing impossible with his gravity and SH height.



TWO FAIRS IN A SHORT HOP IS POSSIBLE. BUT TWO FULL ONES ISNT. IT ISNT POSSIBLE LIKE IT WAS IN vBRAWL
I love you man. :laugh:
 

GameSystem

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 1, 2008
Messages
314
I think that the guy who made smashboards also made AiB so I don't think advertising that site here would be an issue.
 

Alphatron

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 5, 2008
Messages
2,269
Can psa even properly edit Olimar? Or is it possible to edit pikmin pac properties.
 

Naucitos

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 29, 2006
Messages
402
Location
Rhode island
I believe PSA can edit most of olimar, however, keep the complaining about olimar being too good/not good enough in the olimar board please.

Why would you host a forum on y our server if you don't want it to be used?
 

Plum

Has never eaten a plum.
Premium
Joined
Jun 28, 2008
Messages
3,458
Location
Rochester, NY
His point still stands. Learn to man up and use your resources.


and SHDF, with two FULL Fairs, is ****ing impossible. I can ****ing prove it. so **** you you ****er. It's ****ing impossible with his gravity and SH height.



TWO FAIRS IN A SHORT HOP IS POSSIBLE. BUT TWO FULL ONES ISNT. IT ISNT POSSIBLE LIKE IT WAS IN vBRAWL
Don't mean to be a total ****
maybe I do :V
but how is it that everybody else in the world can SHDF except you?
Is everybody else, myself included, just lying out their *** when they say they can consistently SHDF?
Clearly we were all in the chat one day, and thought it would be a HILARIOUS joke to play on you if every player said they could do it while knowing fully well how impossible it was. We are all complete *******s like that :V
 

RyuReiatsu

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 17, 2009
Messages
408
I believe PSA can edit most of olimar, however, keep the complaining about olimar being too good/not good enough in the olimar board please.

Why would you host a forum on y our server if you don't want it to be used?
Why are you even arguing on that point? He doesn't want to exceed his bandwidth. You're seriously going off-topic yourself.

Oog. I think oli is probably severely underplayed right now. I mean, have you seen any oli in combo videos? Any new oli matches? I don't know... He seems like he could be ****ing incredible.
That might be because he's so simple now... I dunno.

Don't mean to be a total ****
maybe I do :V
but how is it that everybody else in the world can SHDF except you?
Is everybody else, myself included, just lying out their *** when they say they can consistently SHDF?
Clearly we were all in the chat one day, and thought it would be a HILARIOUS joke to play on you if every player said they could do it while knowing fully well how impossible it was. We are all complete *******s like that :V
Solidarity ;).
 

CloneHat

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
2,131
Location
Montreal, Quebec
Clearly we were all in the chat one day, and thought it would be a HILARIOUS joke to play on you if every player said they could do it while knowing fully well how impossible it was. We are all complete *******s like that :V

Shhhhhh!

What do you mean? It's perfectly easy to SHDF! It's so easy... that it was harder in Melee, and I could, uhm, SHDF backwards with the cstick all the time.

don't tell him that it's actually impossible to do.
 

kupo15

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
7,002
Location
Playing Melee
get him off the stage.


edge hog.


oh snap boi.


and if your opponent can win by just pressing the c stick, then you must not be very good.




and gamesystem, he's saying that he wants it so that Olimar can't win by just pressing the c stick.


If metaknight can win in Vbrawl by tornado spamming all day, then you must not be that good either.....right?
:ohwell: :dizzy: :ohwell:

Just wanted to point that out that his point could have merit
 

sffadsad

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
148
If metaknight can win in Vbrawl by tornado spamming all day, then you must not be that good either.....right?
:ohwell: :dizzy: :ohwell:

Just wanted to point that out that his point could have merit
Actually, you CAN'T do that in vBrawl unless your opponent isn't that good.
:ohwell: :dizzy: :ohwell:

Just wanted to point out that your comparison is based off of an exaggeration.
 

CloneHat

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
2,131
Location
Montreal, Quebec
get him off the stage.


edge hog.


oh snap boi.


and if your opponent can win by just pressing the c stick, then you must not be very good.



and gamesystem, he's saying that he wants it so that Olimar can't win by just pressing the c stick.


Which he can't. Learn to play.
Actually, you CAN'T do that in vBrawl unless your opponent isn't that good.
:ohwell: :dizzy: :ohwell:

Just wanted to point out that your comparison is based off of an exaggeration.
Guess what he was responding to.
:ohwell::dizzy::ohwell:
 

Alphatron

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 5, 2008
Messages
2,269
Serious question. Do the top Olimar players in tournies get edgehogged every stock in every match? All the time?
 

Plum

Has never eaten a plum.
Premium
Joined
Jun 28, 2008
Messages
3,458
Location
Rochester, NY
Serious question. Do the top Olimar players in tournies get edgehogged every stock in every match? All the time?
Top Olimar players know how to avoid it for as long as possible, or all together if possible.
He is so floaty and he has the Whistle's super armor that good DI and a double jump is often all he needs to make it back. Even then, when he is forced to use Up B there are some things he can do to free up the ledge, such as tossing a purple at the person hogging the ledge or knocking them off with an aerial first before actually using Up B.

His recovery is bad, but I honestly find a recovery like Link's more easy to abuse. I think that's mostly attributed to Olimar's physics in which it can actually be hard to force him to Up B for some characters.

The days of "throw him off and laugh as he instafails" are so long gone. That was before people really knew how to play the character.
There are characters who can gimp him very easily, but those are the characters who gimp tons of other recoveries with basically as much ease such as MK.
 

SymphonicSage12

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 6, 2009
Messages
3,299
I would definitely like to see a comprehensive changelist that more clearly explains the changes.
 

shanus

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 17, 2005
Messages
6,055
So, WBR, what's it going to be? Are you guys going to compile a comprehensive changelist for us?
Let me do that with all my free time.

...

...


GoG is working on it, I think he is like 2/3 done.


On a side note, I love how everyone forcefully demands something, but 99.9% of the community doesn't even think to offer a helping hand. We have lives too, ya know....
 

Daakun

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
135
The problem is most of us can't help.

Animation Modifier Data [347 lines]
How are we supposed to know what animations have been changed?
We could either go through and refind every single animation, or we could simply ask the people making said changes to document them. >_>
 

ThatGuyYouMightKnow

Smash Champion
Joined
May 12, 2008
Messages
2,373
Location
Baltimore, MD
Let me do that with all my free time.
On a side note, I love how everyone forcefully demands something, but 99.9% of the community doesn't even think to offer a helping hand. We have lives too, ya know....
No, you just don't ACCEPT the help.

And lol@daakun, that isn't from the actual Changelist, that's from the code list. :p They just named it to "Comprehensive Changelist" for some reason. D:
 

Plum

Has never eaten a plum.
Premium
Joined
Jun 28, 2008
Messages
3,458
Location
Rochester, NY
The problem is most of us can't help.

Animation Modifier Data [347 lines]
How are we supposed to know what animations have been changed?
We could either go through and refind every single animation, or we could simply ask the people making said changes to document them. >_>
As for some of the more complicated things, no many of us cannot.
For instance, I wouldn't have a clue as to what every flag change in their pacs do.

But I'm sure a lot of us could help with some of the simpler things. For instance, I could easily do a changelist for DDD if that was needed. Things like a short description of why an angle was changed, or why it was speed up or slowed, or range changed. Those are the kind of things we can do.

Just something like:
Fsmash sourspot range increased, now trips any opponent on the ground (including platforms) in range who is NOT shielding or dodging.
Then would probably go a simple reason as to why this is included. Just a blurb that this gives DDD a new option to force approaches, force an opponent into a bad position, and a "tripchase" game if they are close enough to him when they trip. Maybe even include that Fsmash is SLOW AS HELL and a simple jump or shield stops the trip, landing a trip requires forcing the opponent into a trap.

Ftilt shield damage increased. This makes shielding an Ftilt at long range more risky because it now eats a larger chunk of your shield. It fits well with Ftilt's great poking qualities.

Uair SDI capacity reduced. Makes it more difficult to SDI out of his Uair, though hitlag on the move remains the same. It allows a properly spaced Uair to have a greater chance of hitting the last hit. Uair was very easy to get out of, which reduced its effectiveness. Still easy to get out of, but a properly spaced Uair is more likely to be rewarded.

Fthrow launch angle lowered, and BKB raised. Makes Fthrow much more useful at the edge. The previous angle DI'd correctly for you by default (45 degrees towards the corner) and would not kill or even set up for an edgegaurd effectively until high percents. It does its job better, and at earlier %'s, with the bonus of being able kill early with improper DI (if the opponent DI'd expecting a Dthrow and DI'd down and away for instance).

That's what Shanus means I'm fairly sure :V
We can do that. The WBR can talk about all the confusing PSA terms like a flag being set to 39030203 :dizzy:

@Guy
I'm sure the WBR would accept this kind of help. Us more experienced players who understand the changes like I just described can easily right up a description of their character's changes in like 10 minutes, and that's 10 minutes somebody in the WBR may not have, or can use for another purpose. As long as they can see that who ever wrote it has half a brain to know what they are doing that is :V
 

Daakun

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
135
And lol@daakun, that isn't from the actual Changelist, that's from the code list. :p
I... know this? >_>
I was pointing out how the codelist was pretty technical; unless you already know what each line in those massive codes are for, there's really no way outside of tedious tedious testing to find out.
 

shanus

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 17, 2005
Messages
6,055
I... know this? >_>
I was pointing out how the codelist was pretty technical; unless you already know what each line in those massive codes are for, there's really no way outside of tedious tedious testing to find out.
No, we released a changelist for this build but its not a comprehensive changelist (that is from all builds). I'm saying many people could simply piece togethe rthe 6-30 comphrensive build, 7-10 7-23 and 8-10 and thi sbuild to make a comprehensive list.

If someone made one, I'd use it in flash. I'd never turn down help on it :-O
 

shanus

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 17, 2005
Messages
6,055
feel free, we will most likely edit them, but all help is appreciated.
 
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