Balanced Brawl Standard Release

[Pierce7d]

Sorry I've been away from the project. I mainly played with Ryko, and we're both going through complications, but I should be able to get Balanced Brawl on Saturday.

I think Sheik's fsmash should've been left alone, but I haven't played the new Sheik yet. I used the old fsmash to hit spotdodges and ledge pressure. I guess it's good if I can use the new one to wrack up damage.

Zelda is the worst character in the game. She was bottom 4 in vBrawl, and she's relatively worse now, while Link, Falcon, and Ganon all are much better.

 

[hyrulianprincesszeldafan]

lmfao!! thanks but it wont be the same. i really liked balanced brawl and i'm not really a smash ball fanatic but i do like to use it sometimes. but its impossible to play brawl without tripping and still get to use your final smashes?

 

[hyrulianprincesszeldafan]

i can woop ur *** with zelda

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I want to be clear that you can play with items in general. The Timer item is very buggy in Balanced Brawl, and some Final Smashes lock the game (I guess the known list is Zelda, Sheik, Captain Falcon). Other items are fine.

Again, I'm sorry, and it's not that we don't care about items. We just don't have the capability to fix these bugs.

Also, please don't double post...

 

[LordshadowRagnarok]

I believe the speed change code is fundamentally incompatible with them.

Random: I think auto-canceled Wolf sourspot nair to d-tilt or jab might be a true combo now. Was it before? I don't think so, but I'm not exactly a Wolf main.

Jab sets them up well for a Ftilt? I noticed that the Ftilt was putting them in good position for a U smash or a Utilt, but, getting them in a good setup for the ftilt was the problem. Good to know as a different way to space them than Dsmash spam.

 

[Deleted member]

Important:
I was able to chain grab with ICs today, didnt take long. Dthrow may be fixed, but back throw is certainly doable, as is fthrow.

Just a heads up.

 

[Thinkaman]

Keep in mind, Zelda's jab is still as slow as ever. But now it does set up the rest of her game decently.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Important:
I was able to chain grab with ICs today, didnt take long. Dthrow may be fixed, but back throw is certainly doable, as is fthrow.

Just a heads up.

What percentage ranges were you getting the cg? We know some chaingrabbing is still possible, but were you still doing the consistent 0-deaths the ICs are known for in standard Brawl? If you are chaingrabbing as effectively as in standard Brawl, do you have a replay file to demonstrate it in action?

 

[Deleted member]

Percent would not matter. Bthrow was working at any percent, fthrow always works and is always the same timing on every character(at least in vbrawl, should be the same). I got the fthrow a few times as well.
I dont have a replay cuz i cant upload and stuff, but i promise it works lol. I cant do full 0-deaths in normal brawl im not an IC main, just a second, but if you can do the bthrow regrab, that pretty much means u can infinate.

 

[Linkshot]

MK's Final Smash locks up the game.

I didn't know Zelda's did (because it doesn't in Brawl+)

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Percent would not matter. Bthrow was working at any percent, fthrow always works and is always the same timing on every character(at least in vbrawl, should be the same). I got the fthrow a few times as well.
I dont have a replay cuz i cant upload and stuff, but i promise it works lol. I cant do full 0-deaths in normal brawl im not an IC main, just a second, but if you can do the bthrow regrab, that pretty much means u can infinate.

I'm pretty much entirely sure that the timing is variable and that percentage does matter. I don't need a replay uploaded to youtube though; just uploading it to filefront so I can watch it on my Wii would be great.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

the thing about the fix is that it is still easy to do at low percents but once you reach like 60-70 percent range it becomes almost impossible. if you can get a consistent regrab at around 100 then it becomes a problem. otherwise its just as strong as say pikachus old buffered cg or falcos cg.

 

[Deleted member]

Ill see if i can do it tomarrow. I dunno how i can upload tho.
Percent does not matter i promise, it just changes timing.
Nana does not change based on percent so if i can get the bthrow regrab at 60ish (i tried tons of different percents though), i can get it at a higher one with good timing.

I mean the fix helps of course, but IC can still get regrabs, at least for like 40% depending on the percent they are at.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

thats the thing though - no matter what, without some massive changes we cant get rid of the cg. the goal was to make it as hard as humanly possible. if i had my sd card i would test it out (i used to second ics).

 

[Deleted member]

I personally was against getting rid of CGs xD
I dont care, Im just letting you know that if even I can do it a little, good ICs will be able to do it pretty well I think.

JUST A HEADS UP!
Not a critique.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

We did have a pretty good ICs player from St. Louis give the ICs a whirl, and he was not able to do infinites though he was still able to do some chaingrabbing. Of course, it's hard to know exactly how this is going to work out which is why detailed data from this sort of thing is highly valuable.

 

[Deleted member]

Ok I was just making sure you guys knew that CGing is still possible, though harder.

Anyways, i played today, its pretty good, nice job :D

Jiggs seems still sub par tho, she needs like a single really good move, and it seemed like even though she has better damage racking now (grab game is even better), seems like you shoulda buffed her ground game just a littttle bit, and maybe improved back air.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Jigglypuff's back aerial actually is improved.

"Back aerial damage (12%) -> (13%), knockback (90/10) -> (70/8)"

Note the reduced knockback means it's slightly better for follow-ups all around even though it does more damage.

Her ground game is always going to be fairly poor, but we did improve her grab game (as you noted) and her dash attack (which is, IMO, her most important ground attack).

 

[GwJ]

If you start buffing all the moves, they won't connect anymore and she won't have as many followups.

 

[Deleted member]

Buffing doenst mean making it more powerful.
But as it stands, she has crappy priority still, and pretty much the same flaws, shes just better.
I really dont have an idea on a fix, that was just my impression.
Btw does the knockback allow guarenteed followups?
Nice job guys.

 

[stingers]

They buffed it by nerfing the knockback, it looks like...from 90/10 to 70/8? I don't think the damage increases KB that much

 

[Rudementry]

CG'ing and Desyncing is all the IC's have, IDK why you'd guys take them out. Any pro ICs player can still 0-death, just using bthrow to forward throw or forward through to reverse grab to back through repeat. Also did you change the downthrow so u can't downthrow to regrab to forwardthrow to grab to forward through then go bthrow and start fthrowing and backthrowing?

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

CG'ing and Desyncing is all the IC's have, IDK why you'd guys take them out. Any pro ICs player can still 0-death, just using bthrow to forward throw or forward through to reverse grab to back through repeat. Also did you change the downthrow so u can't downthrow to regrab to forwardthrow to grab to forward through then go bthrow and start fthrowing and backthrowing?

I really want some evidence of their ability to 0-death with the new mechanics. That's really what I've been saying. Theory and speculation just really doesn't help on the ICs at this point; real play by real ICs players is what they need.

Desynching is still around and as good as ever, and their other buffs are designed to make them more "a unique and interesting character" and less "a gimmicky character that is about just abusing one thing that is basically auto-win in some matchups such as vs Bowser due to it".

 

[Deleted member]

Me being able to do it is NOT theory craft.
Bthrow and fthrow arent even hard lol i got fthrow on my first try at like 50.

I dont get the dair buff but w/e

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I don't mean just one regrab. I mean grab them at zero and chaingrab them all the way to death.

 

[Deleted member]

I probably cant, ill get my friend to do that.

 

[JOE!]

CG'ing and Desyncing is all the IC's have, IDK why you'd guys take them out. Any pro ICs player can still 0-death, just using bthrow to forward throw or forward through to reverse grab to back through repeat. Also did you change the downthrow so u can't downthrow to regrab to forwardthrow to grab to forward through then go bthrow and start fthrowing and backthrowing?

the project was about making it so thats not all they have.

They now have more cool stuff to do with their moveset outsid eof CGing

 

[The Milk Monster]

All I can say about IC's in BBrawl is I absolutely love the new way they play against the chaingrab. It's so amazing.

 

[ratman19]

Do you think this is worth getting another sd card for and having BBrawl just on it, so I can switch between vbrawl, brawl+, and bbrawl? (have 2 for the first two)

i have 3 sd cards. one for bbrawl, normal brawl with textures etc and one for b+

 

[Melee1]

People are wasting there time with all these versions of brawl. Its ok for fun but I think its making people worse at the game since there wont be any tournaments with more than 5 people who pay $5.00 that john about brawl. Hack brawl is for casual players who dont care. :/

 

[Deleted member]

LOL!
Just have a folder on your computor wiht the bbrawl files, and the brawl+ and when u wanna play the other switch them on ur SD.

 

[indigestible_wad]

thank you, & i thought so...
so finding a computer with which i can save the files to my SD card will be my first step.
hopefully i wont run into any problems after that..

i appreciate the quick reply

If you have a digital camera that carries an sd card, or an mp3 player, or anything that has an sd card add-on space, you can connect that to the computer through your usb port and move the files from there.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

People are wasting there time with all these versions of brawl. Its ok for fun but I think its making people worse at the game since there wont be any tournaments with more than 5 people who pay $5.00 that john about brawl. Hack brawl is for casual players who dont care. :/

Balanced Brawl is by design made to not detract from your standard Brawl skills and vice versa. Getting better at Balanced Brawl should make you better at standard Brawl, and getting better at standard Brawl should improve your performance in Balanced Brawl. The engine is fundamentally the same after all.

Another thing that is a VERY important note to make is that Balanced Brawl is not made with any sort of disdain of Brawl in mind. We believe Brawl is an excellent game, and therefore it is worthy of our time and effort to improve. We actually agree on the philosophy that modifying a game because you are dissatisfied with it is bizarre and counter-intuitive; if you want to change another game as a basis for your own game, shouldn't you start with something you already like as the base to ensure you get something as favorable as possible?

As per tournaments, UTD Zac has already scheduled one that will doubtless have more than 5 people (though they likely are not going to be there for the purpose of johning about Brawl):

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=245905

I know of something else on the way too, but it is still being finalized so I can't go into details. I do have optimism that Balanced Brawl will see some tournament success, and I have confidence in the quality of our game so I have further confidence that it will only see growing success as more people play it.

 

[Linkshot]

I'm set for Ottawa's first bBrawl tourney.

I wrote up my own deviation of the stage list, rules, etc on paper so the computer can be used solely for brackets.

Some bias involved in the stage list (haaaaaaaaate weegee's), with a pinch of conservation so people don't boo me.

 

[Alphatron]

Mr. Ampharos, wouldn't anyone who modified the game to fix a few things in the game do it because they had some respect for the original game in the 1st place? Bbrawl wouldn't exist if you hated brawl, but it also wouldn't exists if you thought brawl was perfect.

Either way, I'll need a third SD card to try this out.

 

[fraudster111]

Why cant we just accept brawl for what it is. An unbalanced game. *sigh* Ill still check this out for fun but when you go to major tourneys they still use what sakurai made.

 

[blakinola]

I'm really excited about this project. I can't wait to try it out. I really think this has the potential to be really big if given a chance. It'll start off as side events and then evolve into something huge, I hope.

I'm just excited to not be cg'd to death when I'm DK. This makes me a happy guy.

EDIT: I don't understand, why would you want an unbalanced game? Why are people satisfied with the way vBrawl is? I can't believe it.

 

[daisho]

I'm really excited about this project. I can't wait to try it out. I really think this has the potential to be really big if given a chance. It'll start off as side events and then evolve into something huge, I hope.

I'm just excited to not be cg'd to death when I'm DK. This makes me a happy guy.

EDIT: I don't understand, why would you want an unbalanced game? Why are people satisfied with the way vBrawl is? I can't believe it.

Don't forget the lack of nado spamming!

I really need to play this with people, if you live in NJ let me know!

 

[Stealth Raptor]

i have a pretty good feeling that this guy would love to play you http://www.smashboards.com/member.php?u=53195

 

[Ryusuta]

I don't understand, why would you want an unbalanced game? Why are people satisfied with the way vBrawl is? I can't believe it.

There are a few good reasons for this, actually. (Note, I'm not necessarily saying I AGREE with every last one of these reasons, but I do think they're all quite valid.)

First, because this was the way the game was intended to be, and they want it to stay true to the original version, flaws and all.

Second, their character benefits from the imbalanced version.

Third, they don't necessarily think this version is more balanced.

Fourth, they don't want to have to keep switching back and forth.

Fifth, they don't want to adapt to the different style of play (and yes, some characters do have a different play style now; though not as different as in B+).

Sixth, they can't/don't want to run homebrew.

Last, they don't think a hack should become a standard for tournament play.