Balanced Brawl Standard Release

[MK26]

There are a few good reasons for this, actually. (Note, I'm not necessarily saying I AGREE with every last one of these reasons, but I do think they're all quite valid.)

First, because this was the way the game was intended to be, and they want it to stay true to the original version, flaws and all.

Second, their character benefits from the imbalanced version.

Third, they don't necessarily think this version is more balanced.

Fourth, they don't want to have to keep switching back and forth.

Fifth, they don't want to adapt to the different style of play (and yes, some characters do have a different play style now; though not as different as in B+).

Sixth, they can't/don't want to run homebrew.

Last, they don't think a hack should become a standard for tournament play.

so basically, bias, prejudice against anything not blessed by the devs, or lack of knowledge.

Let them play whatever version they want to play. No need to feed the trolls (not that they necessarily sound trollish, but there are definitely others that feel the same way and arent afraid to troll)

 

[Ryusuta]

so basically, bias, prejudice against anything not blessed by the devs, or lack of knowledge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Those are all valid reasons not to want to play BBrawl.

 

[Rowland]

once i figured out how to do it, with the help my my friend and his SD card compatible computer, i tried bbrawl and, honestly, i felt as excited as i did when i first unwrapped the original game XD

thanks for all the help, bbrawl is win

 

[MK26]

And what was the next sentence i wrote after the one you quoted?

 

[Ryusuta]

It's irrelevant to the point I was addressing.

 

[A2ZOMG]

We just need to give this baby more time. I have 100% confidence this will grow on the Smash community. I got my friend TonyGuacamole (a guy who likes Brawl+ btw) to see why this hack is amazing.

I'm trying not to be biased, but I can really see Mario being a top tier threat in BBrawl. His KO power is among the best of the best in this game, even more emphasized by the reliability and ease of landing his KO moves. Mario is REALLY STRONG in BBrawl. Basically he's a character that has a good, if not great option for everything. His one weakness is low range, which can be compensated for by his improved fireballs, situational use of Cape and FLUDD, and his incredibly long ranged F-smash. While his recovery may be predictable offstage, Mario greatly benefits from the removal of Recovery Carry Over lag, and his weight makes him considerably more bulky than characters like Marth, Metaknight, and G&W.

To give you an idea how amazingly strong Mario is, his Up-smash KOs DDD at 127% on FD. Mario's D-smash likewise KOs about 3% higher than his Up-smash (from the center of FD), and becomes extremely scary to deal with when you are near the edge due to its gimp potential. Even BETTER for Mario is his improved B-throw, which is very close in KO power to Ness's B-throw. It easily KOs Bowser at around 125% or so, and this gets even better when you factor in the ease of getting a grab through Mario's very good Jab cancel. Mario in short has some of the best KO options in this game, able to kill anyone in this game before they live past 130%.

I should also point out, Mario's KO moves are relatively safe. His D-smash in particular is a safe attack on block, as it pushes his opponents away very far. Mario's Up-smash is one of the better out of shield attacks in this game and also has relatively low ending lag. Mario's F-smash has some of the longest range in this game when reversed (outranging Ike's F-smash). Mario can Jab cancel easily into a grab most of the time.

As for Mario's F-smash, Mario's other KO moves have become so good that I find this attack is a lot more useful as a long-ranged damage dealer.

But anyhow, Mario has everything. He has a good projectile. He has the Cape which reflects projectiles, changes his momentum, gimps people, and really adds to his mixup game. His Neutral air is a great combo breaker, out of shield option, and gimp tool. His D-air is also great out of shield, it starts combos, juggles, and is a GREAT shield pressure tool. His FLUDD is a wacky spacer. Mario's Up-B is a great out of shield attack. Mario can combo his opponents pretty easily, and with his increased KO power, now he can kill them very quickly.

Mario ****ing rocks.

 

[Linkshot]

TL;DR version of A2ZOMG:

"Heehee, I got it!"

 

[Thinkaman]

First, because this was the way the game was intended to be, and they want it to stay true to the original version, flaws and all.

This is a valid reason. However, I think it is minimized thanks to how strictly this project adhere's to the core design of Brawl. Sakurai himself has a great quote about how he'd like to improve and tweak a game to no end, but it has to release sometime. The question I have asked myself over and over durign this project is "What would Sakurai do?" Given the data of having millions of players play a game for over a year, what tweaks and improvements would he make, according to the game's original design?

There is merit to recognizing the original game as an established and discrete standard. However, anyone trying to go a step further and say that these changes are a noteworthy deviation from the original design is standing on questionable ground.

Second, their character benefits from the imbalanced version.

Yes, this is an issue. I think though, that many players are mature enough to prefer balance... Especially when you have some like Wario who will gladly take worse matchups against improved low-tiers in exchange for the irritating and boring grab release being taken away. Even if Wario can easily avoid it, it just isn't fun or tactically interesting.

Third, they don't necessarily think this version is more balanced.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I invite anyone who actually thinks we have totally failed in our objective to tell me what matchups they think are less balanced now. (Outside the 40:60-60:40 range.)

I am willing to bet that any matchups that do end up outside that range were far worse to begin with. For example, I stated Falcon vs. Olimar as a matchup that *might* be 35:65. Even if true, it's obviously much better than it is in unmodified Brawl.

Fourth, they don't want to have to keep switching back and forth.

That makes sense, consider there is a great deal of timing and spacing changes to relearn, as well as controls and character movement.

Oh wait.

Considering that the ability to flawlessly transition back and forth with normal Brawl was a pillar of this project which was very strictly respected, I don't buy into any transition johns. I played BBrawl all summer almost exclusively, and I transitioned to normal Brawl (and back and forth) just fine, even with Ganondorf!

Fifth, they don't want to adapt to the different style of play (and yes, some characters do have a different play style now; though not as different as in B+).

It's kind of a stretch to say that anyone has a different "style" of play, even Ganondorf. the number of characters who even have one move that you would use more or differently is quite small.

Sixth, they can't/don't want to run homebrew.

Well, conveniently enough...

Last, they don't think a hack should become a standard for tournament play.

I think this is just repeating the first point.

 

[Linkshot]

On the note of Falcon.

The vBrawl AI on Falcon is already amazing. Better than any human could hope to accomplish.

By buffing Falcon, you've made Level 9 Falcon God Tier. He literally combos, using nAir1 properly and all that. His only flaw is trying to land Falcon Punch (but it does establish a fear aura).

Level 9 Falcon nAir1 -> fSmash'd me from the edge of Battlefield. I died off the corner of the screen at 133%. The OPPOSITE corner.

TL;DR, you've perfected Falcon.

 

[Eyada]

My search for the "secret changes" is not going well.

I'm devolving into paranoia at this point. Every single little action suddenly seems suspect and "somehow different", but so far I can't clearly discern that anything actually is different.

Help me please.

Spoiler

It doesn't have anything to do with the section of Brinstar directly above the "breakable barrels in the floor" does it? I got some glitchy behavior there yesterday, but I'm not sure if that same behavior is already part of vBrawl.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

they are mechanics that are very obscure. in true competitive play you have almost 0 chance to come across it. if this were given to random people on the street, they would be found relatively (relativley as in probably a few weeks) quickly

 

[Eyada]

So, is it that they don't have any impact on competitive play whatsoever or is it that it's just unlikely that you'll notice them during competitive play?

 

[hyrulianprincesszeldafan]

[sighing] if only you were able to play with final smashes when you please...although i mostly don't it still makes it brawl.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

the exact conditions required are something you are very likely to see in competitive play in that the conditions are not something a pro might do for instance. im talking from a vbrawl perspective, so it could be different in bbrawl given enough time.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Mentioning Brawl AIs. Level 9 Samus is really scary. Maybe it's scary for me since the wii I'm using has been used by a pro Samus player lmao.

Samus refuses to die, camps like a mother****er, and punishes you brutally with her improved KO power on Smashes and everything. As I was saying earlier, I believe Samus is going to be one of the new biggest threats in BBrawl.

 

[Linkshot]

I was going nuts, too.

Hints:

Spoiler

Thievery, Gluttony, Super Mario 64

Oh. And there's one that does absolutely nothing in 1v1 (you can't even find it!)

Is that too much? D: I hate seeing people suffer.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

did you find them too or did someone tell you? cause i figured one would be found eventually, but i thought the really big one would never be found.

 

[Linkshot]

I found the really big one with only the hint.

Spoiler

It's amazing and gamebreaking.

Spoiler

I found the Gluttony one before Amphy did! XD I found the Thievery one during development.

 

[hyrulianprincesszeldafan]

i love balanced brawl. its so epic. hopefully they find a way to be able to use smash balls.

 

[SaltyKracka]

There seem to be two choices for the hints. Either Wario, who fits the thievery and gluttony with his

Spoiler

Grab pummel and bite

, or Mario, likely either wearing the metal box, or doing a walljump. *Investigates*

 

[Linkshot]

There is a way. Reset the match if MK/Falcon break the Smash Ball.

Spoiler

Salty, you will never find the SM64 one in 1v1, even with items on. NEVER.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I loled so hard after getting grabbed by Wario.

 

[Linkshot]

I am going to shut up now because it is not good for my health to keep talking about this.

>.>

<.<

 

[Stealth Raptor]

lol i finally got the super mario 64 reference (took me long enough eh?) but linkshot has given a pretty important clue that a lot of people are missing lol

 

[A2ZOMG]

I just tried out Link, and man, this guy is gonna make a huge jump on the list.

B-air -> B-reverse Arrow Cancel is stupidly good especially with that Arrow Buff that Link got.

 

[Big O]

I found out the Super Mario 64 secret. It ended up being the very first thing I tried out although it took me a while to find it since I overlooked the possibilities. I must say you guys did a great job hiding this.

 

[Deleted member]

I found out the Super Mario 64 secret. It ended up being the very first thing I tried out although it took me a while to find it since I overlooked the possibilities. I must say you guys did a great job hiding this.

whats the secret? i dont get it

please tell me

 

[Anomilus]

Argh I don't know what it's supposed to be. =( I did find one Easter Egg, but nothing related to "Super Mario 64".

 

['V']

I would like to know too...

 

[Linkshot]

No more hints.

There are 3 Easter Eggs.

That's all you're getting.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

indeed, half the fun of knowing them is finding them on your own :] though one is obnoxiously hard on its own, me, link, and thinkaman have given you more then enough to solve it quite easily. you just gotta put your noggin into it :o

 

[Anomilus]

First of all, by putting those hints altogether, I thought you were referring to one particular easter egg, not 3. I think I found one of them on my own, but the Mario 64 one really isn't enough information. The relation was rather obvious, but outside of that it's a big guessing game. Ended up playing a bunch of matches and seeing nothing out of the ordinary.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

You've been told the Super Mario 64 one can't happen in 1v1. Putting that information together, I think it should be pretty easy to find.

You will be amazed to discover it. I'm not actually upset if someone ends up posting it since it is relevant to the metagame, but I just want whoever does post it to not be someone I've told about it and instead someone who finds it on his own.

The other two easter eggs are cosmetic and unimportant. This topic has already said one of them is Wario's coin pummel. The hint for the other is "gluttony".

 

[Anomilus]

Yeah I pretty much figured out the "gluttony" one. I guess I'm just tired of turning my game off and on, and it's late. I did play a free-for-all as well. I figured it may have to do with specific characters or something, but my combination didn't result in anything. There are a few more ideas. Guess I just gotta keep trying.... urgh....THIS BETTER BE WORTH IT. e_e

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

You don't need to turn your game on and off to find it. It's something you can do independent of how long the game has been on.

 

[Anomilus]

I mean "on and off" because I turned off my game to retire for the day and turned it back on to try and figure out these clues, then gave up for the day....only to find myself now typing this after playing a bunch of matches to look for ANYTHING different...except I come back more tired, up later than I should be, and empty-handed...

 

[Linkshot]

I'll tell you that you don't have to look closely at all, just to put more ease on you.

 

[Anomilus]

I really didn't look closely. I just played and waited for something to catch my eye. I also played some 1v1s to see if there was a difference. Always played the same. Perhaps the "Mario 64" part has eluded me, though I only have one other idea....

 

[Ryusuta]

Meh. I don't think Easter eggs are especially worthwhile if they're this obscure and no one will talk about them.

Finding Link in Super Mario RPG was a fun Easter egg. This seems less like an Easter egg and more like a "Oh, you poor dolts can't discover this really awesome secret I found? Well, I'll give you a TINY hint, but you'll just have to twist in the wind if you want to know more."

It's Easter eggs like that that cause me to instantly lose interest rather than try to seek them out. I'll find them out when the more masochistic people that are willing to tear the game apart looking for them find them and tell everyone about them.

 

[bleyva]

Meh. I don't think Easter eggs are especially worthwhile if they're this obscure and no one will talk about them.

Finding Link in Super Mario RPG was a fun Easter egg. This seems less like an Easter egg and more like a "Oh, you poor dolts can't discover this really awesome secret I found? Well, I'll give you a TINY hint, but you'll just have to twist in the wind if you want to know more."

It's Easter eggs like that that cause me to instantly lose interest rather than try to seek them out. I'll find them out when the more masochistic people that are willing to tear the game apart looking for them find them and tell everyone about them.

looks like someones a poor sport