Well, not a main, but an involved Ganon player who's well-regarded in the community, the changes overall were positive. Really, the Game-changer was that we can tech-chase EVERYTHING. I'm gonna miss aerial wiz-kick kills off the top, but overall, our options got a lot stronger and most of the community seems to like the new Ganondorf.
Also, Grounding with the initial hitbox of aerial wizkick is amazing.
I'm glad you guys are pleased with it. Ganon got a lot of attention during testing, and we are pleased with the results. I hope all characters turn out as good as Ganon.
Granted, but that still doesn't justify ruining Sheik. If Zelda is too weak on her own, then fix Zelda; Sheik needn't be made non-viable as part of the process. Forcing players into using Zelda/Sheik by destroying Sheik is a bad idea, and I hope it will be reconsidered.
Don't misunderstood our intentions. Zelda and Sheik are both sub-par characters is normal brawl with some novel strengths, but not enough to seal the deal. (Especially Zelda) Personally, this is how I would like to see it (speaking for myself and not the project): Zelda or Sheik by themselves should be *barely* below average characters, with more bad matchups than good ones. Meanwhile, Zelda and Sheik combined and used effectively should be *marginally* better than other characters. I feel the same about PT, but more extreme.
We're aren't on a mission to screw over any characters or players, or change the way they play; not changing general playstyles is the entire goal of the project. We were merely stating the direct we want to move with Zelda and Sheik in the future: making sure they are a compatible team.
Honestly for the little bit I used sheik I understand how losing the ftilt lock is a pretty huge loss, but that's kind of the point of this code set. In the end people are going to need to think of other things sheik may gain in exchange. Like falco gains something out of losing his chain grab. Maybe a more viable killshot, I dunno.
And yes, zelda needs to be much much better.
Right, this preview is an opportunity to see how sheik fits into this scary new world without her trusty f-tilt lock. From there we can figure out what to do next with Sheik, as well as Zelda.
Not speaking for the whole community here, I just kind of find this useless.
Me personally did not find the fatal flaw in Brawl to be it's unbalance-ness, just the overall physics of it. I frown upon "playing god" with the game and and using hacks to change it unless it's for a good purpose. Brawl +, aimed at making Brawl what it should have been, and in the process made it somewhat more balanced. Why go through all this just to keep the same game just to make your favorite character tourney viable And I especially hate the method of nerfing the good characters and buffing bad characters to achieve this balance.
Would you rather us buff the good characters and nerf the bad ones?
I also could imagine taking MK as avarage and giving all characters that many buffs until they are near as good as MK. This could be pretty acurate, but then Characters would still keep their CGs and stuff and that's what destroys some other character.
Have much do you want to buff DK if he still gets Infinited by DDD ? Taking of DDDs infinit is much easier and he has now funny tech-chase game with two throws.
Edit: I really like the new DDD, the throws feel very good somehow
The issue with buffing everyone "to MK level" is that matchup polarization would still be a very big problem; with advantages and disadvantages that extreme, it is unavoidable. We could make characters all have the same number of good and bad matchups, but many of those matchups might be 80:20 or 90:10. That's not balance, that's rock-paper-scissors.
Agreed, and I'm not arguing that F-Tilt lock didn't need to go. (I main Fox, after all; I'm well aware of the detrimental effect it has on balance.) However, I get the impression that the overall design goal here is "nerf Sheik, and make up for it by forcing people to use Zelda."
I am perfectly happy with the Tilt lock being gone and giving Sheik some buffs that allow her to be balanced and competitive while emphasizing her unique playstyle; however, I do not agree with making "some buffs" translate into "make Zelda better and require that Sheik players use her in order to win."
Again, don't misunderstand out intent. We aren't out to ruin Sheik, and we aren't out to ruin Zelda. There are independent yet interlocked characters that will require careful attention, more than most. It is vital that we have good matchup data for both, as well as matchup data for combined usage, to have a shot at proper balance.
I could imagine that Im annoyed by the new Ike on the long run.
Of course it looks cool and funny on the first view that he can fly around like superman now, but obviously, it doesnt fit into his playstyle - and I think, the recoveries in Brawl are already "too good" in the most cases, as they destroy a lot of tactical potential of the game (the possibility to get the opponent off the stage instead of getting the opponent out of the hole screen).
Dont get me wrong, Im not against buffing Ike in general, but I think that this is just a change that doesnt fit to him.
Most players are feeling that it is very natural for him, since it is a very constrained type of mobility.
Also, I think you drastically understate the depth of Brawl's edgeguarding game. With recoveries "too good", that means the edgeguarding player is free to jump out and get into a full aerial fight off stage. Watch high level Brawl videos or go to a tourney and most matchups will show significant combat off-stage. It's the best part of Brawl imo.
Double edit: If Ike has a recovery like that now, but Link still has the worst in the game, but is still supposed to be as good as the rest of the characters I expect those arrows to be pretty darned good xD
Believe me, they are seriously good. Better yet, believe Legan.
I used to say that link's problem was 2 fold, and in a way related. He hit way too weak for someone who recovered like a heavyweight. I still think link needs a better recovery, but he's honestly a powerhouse right now and that's a pretty decent exchange. If he has to worry about dying at like 90, at least he can give someone a reasonable fear of the same.
That's the idea! To be honest, most attempts to buffs Link's recovery were awkward and did not actualyl help Link all that much or all that naturally. There wasn't an elegant switch we could throw like Ike, to have an existing move help him.
However, again, Ike was a special case; weakness was secondary to the mobility issue that was polarizing his matchups. Link's recovery is, for the most part, equally bad against everyone. (like Olimar for example) Big weaknesses are okay, as long as it doesn't screw up matchups; then it's just a question of having the strengths to make up for that weakness.
Hey AA or Thinkaman or whoever your coder is, could you pls make me an own Snake (Yeah it should be a balanced snake, but as well a "new" Snake so that Snake-Mains could have interest in playing BBrawl instead of vBrawl) ???
I understand where you are coming from; everyone wants new toys! However, there are two important points.
First, even if I go to the trouble of making custom versions for different people instead of investigating more critical issues, it would become a mess to have all these different versions floating around. People would be sending them back and forth to play each other, and there's be lots of de-syncs and confusion; the whole thing would be a mess.
Second, the point of this preview is to get solid matchup data for the metagame these changes create. I know the slightly nerfed Snake might seem "boring" when you've got guys like Link, Ganon, and Ike with interesting changes, but understand that fighting AGAINST these new changes is just as interesting as using them and discovering how Snake is affected by these changes is just as important.
Only by understanding how Snake is affected by the new meta game can we truly decide where to go with Snake next. If we are going to change and improve Snake, it is critical that we have the information to do it right. I hope we can count on you to assist us in this.
No fix on the fact ROB literally cannot kill people? Well, okay...
ROB has a well understood weakness, everyone is on the same page here. However, throwing a random fix on isn't the best way to do things.
ROB, like Snake, has a place in the new metagame that we need to locate. What matchups are now his worst? How does he do against the newly nerfed characters? How well does he perform on stages that are newly viable? How does he fight on those stages?
Different answers will call for different actions. Only accurate data will allow accurate results.
Sonic IS that bad. People telling themselves otherwise wont change a thing. everyone who mains him knows it.
Still waiting on a repsonse from AA or thinkaman on my suggestion...
swap the buff from dair and uair so they do +1 and +2. and add the damage over both hits. only increasing the 2nd hit isnt that useful. Not gonna state all my reasons/arguments again for 4th time >_<[/QUOTE]
I've replied to you twice, and will no do so a fourth time after you ignore this one too. The community recognizes Sonic as a mid-tier. This project is not going to add 4% damage to one of Sonic's best moves, that would make it KO absurdly early. Dair was buffed because we *know* it's a bad move and deserves some extra damage.
Since it seems like there wasn't that much change to the balance, if you ever feel like Metaknight is still too good, I would recommend the speed mod (despite what I said earlier) to make his d-smash have more cool down lag. d-smash against shield into another d-smash against shield is so dumb. In return, you could give some oomph back into the strength of d-smash. Another possibly to look into is changing weight values of certain characters.
Speed changes are only used in emergencies, when there is an underlying problem that no amount of damage/knockback could fix. Weight changes, even if possible, would have extremely widespread fundamental changes that would not be in the interest of this project.
Thansk for your response though, I hope you continue to enjoy it and offer feedback!
