Meta Australian Smash 4 General Ruleset Discussion

[Gords]

looks promising

 

[Splice]

yeah it looks really good.
It's different while still maintaining the things we like in competitive stages (no walk offs, 2 ledges, no walls/roofs)
Tree platforms are cool and will probably have a few nice aerial things that could work there, ducks are like shy guys and the grass that you can go behind adds to the stage specific meta which is underrated.

 

[Jamwa]

stage specific meta

i thought stage specific meta was just ban it

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Also what do you guys think of the stages in the game that could potentially be Tourney viable stages?
Here is a list to start off:
Battlefield/ Big Battlefield
Final Destination
Woolly World
Orbital Gate (?)
Halberd
Castle Siege
Lylat Cruise
Town and City
Pilot Wings
Congo Jungle
Skyworld
Windy Hill
Wuhu Island (?)
Pilot Wings
Miiverse

? = Innocent until proven guilty
This is just to start discussion soooo... Discuss

 

[Lex__]

Also what do you guys think of the stages in the game that could potentially be Tourney viable stages?
Here is a list to start off:
Battlefield/ Big Battlefield
Final Destination
Woolly World
Orbital Gate (?)
Halberd
Castle Siege
Lylat Cruise
Town and City
Pilot Wings
Congo Jungle
Skyworld
Windy Hill
Wuhu Island (?)
Pilot Wings
Miiverse

? = Innocent until proven guilty
This is just to start discussion soooo... Discuss

Skyworld has those janky stage platforms again.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Skyworld has those janky stage platforms again.

ffs

 

[Splice]

i thought stage specific meta was just ban it

That's how some ppl think ey b0ss
But to be serious for a second, every stage has it's own meta. just some have more than others.

examples from Melee:
PS1 and Yoshi's have more tricksies than Dreamland
FD gameplay is often centered around the dominance of chaingrabs

 

[Attila_]

I think it's probably easiest if we make a list of things that we want in allowed stages, and things that make stages banned.

Like:

Must Have Attributes
Ledges on all edges
Uninterrupted stage

Desirable Attributes
Symmetry

Undesirable Attributes
Places to camp that must be approached from above
Transformations
Walls (temporary or permanent)
Walk offs (temporary)
Unpredictable RNG elements
Water
Stage instability or breakability

Auto-Ban Attributes
Hazards
Walk-offs (permanent)
Item spawns that can't be switched off

If you ascribe stages to these elements, it will make discussion, categorization, and testing MUCH easier.

Also, feel free to mention other factors (these were the first points that came to mind).

 

[Lex__]

Battlefield

Big Battlefield (Counter pick? its a fd with platforms)

Final Destination (a classic great stages)
Woolly World(has walk off most of the time, and has the ability to easily circle camp when not)

Orbital Gate (?) (looks mad janky, distracting backgrounds, moving platforms, semi walkoffs with the amount of stages i dont see why it should be allowed)

Halberd (Classic stage looks fine)

Castle Siege ( walk offs, weird transform thing, i think we have more better stages no point this being legal)

Lylat Cruise (im not a fan of this because of the annoying background but if this is the same i dont seem why it wouldnt be legal other then alot more better stages)

Town and City (legal, reminds of draculas and 3.5 norfair, should be a counterpick because of its constant changing nature (wait is smashville gone?!) if smashville is gone then nuetral?)

Pilot Wings (looks legal counter pick?)

Congo Jungle (has a history of circle camping, does anyone know if the bottom thing is back)

Skyworld (Janky platforms that can get destroyed, platform down the bottom which saves people)

Windy Hill (uneven layout, weird springs at the end, looks way to big, shouldnt be legal)

Wuhu Island (?)

Miiverse ( looks like battle field with a moving background, will have to see blastzones)

Edited my opinions in brackets,

Playing dota 2, so will edit more in when done.

started writing this before attila did his post I agree with him.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

So based off of @ Lex__ and @ Attila_ 's suggestions here is a (sort of) updated version of my previous list:
Neutral
BF, FD, Smashville, Miiverse, Duck Hunt stage (Actual name?)

Counterpick
Big BF (Teams only?), Halberd, Town and City, Pilot Wings

Stages unsure of:
Lylat
Wuhu Island

Also If we get a few of the other 64 stages, that would be nice... *COUGH DREAMLAND COUGH*
Smashville was in a picture with wario in it with Ashley in the background iirc.
Looking back on the 50 fact direct, the miiverse stage (to me anyway) looks hella small tbh...
I've probably forgotten like, 5 good stages, so yeah...

 

[Luco]

I'd argue DHD stage should be a CP because stages with more notable stage-specific meta such as this one tend to work out more extremely for certain characters.

If lylat is the same old lylat then, as much as I personally hate what the stage is for my character, I'd be inclined to heavily support it. It's pretty aesthetically beautiful... err, not that that's affecting my decision in any way! >.>

 

[Jamwa]

lylat is cancerous. hopefully the ledges are better in sm4sh

 

[Splice]

I think it's probably easiest if we make a list of things that we want in allowed stages, and things that make stages banned.

But then you've just got a new thing you need to get everyone to agree on.
I was changing your list to include more things and remove some but there was just too much

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

lylat is cancerous. hopefully the ledges are better in sm4sh

I'd argue DHD stage should be a CP because stages with more notable stage-specific meta such as this one tend to work out more extremely for certain characters.

If lylat is the same old lylat then, as much as I personally hate what the stage is for my character, I'd be inclined to heavily support it. It's pretty aesthetically beautiful... err, not that that's affecting my decision in any way! >.>

I personally never had problems with the ledges in lylat when playing brawl

 

[Attila_]

But then you've just got a new thing you need to get everyone to agree on.
I was changing your list to include more things and remove some but there was just too much

Even so, there are definitely universals here.

Does anyone think that a legal stage should have permanent walk offs or edges with no ledges?

 

[ViVa]

Kongo Jungle 64 is in the game if you guys want to talk about it at some point.

http://youtu.be/DcvZyB6Uy0o?t=1m23s

 

[Luco]

I personally never had problems with the ledges in lylat when playing brawl

I used to bounce off the bottom sooooooo many times. It's such a horrendous stage for the PK kids.

Kongo jungle being in is really exciting, I think it could be really fun to play on it but i'd use it as a CP if I were to use it.

 

[Lex__]

Even so, there are definitely universals here.

Does anyone think that a legal stage should have permanent walk offs or edges with no ledges?

Done, this is very loose, and im sure lots of those are going to get banned(and should be), but its as loose as possible.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Done, this is very loose, and im sure lots of those are going to get banned(and should be), but its as loose as possible.

I like this tbh

I used to bounce off the bottom sooooooo many times. It's such a horrendous stage for the PK kids.

Kongo jungle being in is really exciting, I think it could be really fun to play on it but i'd use it as a CP if I were to use it.

Really? I used to main Lucas in brawl and never had that problem... I dunno

 

[Gords]

i will post my list as soon as i play the game, i have already posted my prelim assessment (go a couple of pages back).
I will be streaming the whole thing so you guys can actually see the stages played live as well

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

i will post my list as soon as i play the game, i have already posted my prelim assessment (go a couple of pages back).
I will be streaming the whole thing so you guys can actually see the stages played live as well

Niiice can't wait, even though i've watched the countless videos of smash 4 Wii U footage anyway

 

[Jamwa]

I personally never had problems with the ledges in lylat when playing brawl

ok
...

As lylat would move, Lucas'/Ness' PKT would also move in the air whilst Lucas/Ness stayed in the same position, causing PKT2 aiming to be relatively unpredictable and uncontrollable. if you didnt notice this then please think about what you post because what i've quoted is just an opinion and adds nothing to what me and Luco have said about it being a bad stage as there's no way to compensate for random movement of Lucas'/Ness' recovery tool

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

ok
...

As lylat would move, Lucas'/Ness' PKT would also move in the air whilst Lucas/Ness stayed in the same position, causing PKT2 aiming to be relatively unpredictable and uncontrollable. if you didnt notice this then please think about what you post because what i've quoted is just an opinion and adds nothing to what me and Luco have said about it being a bad stage as there's no way to compensate for random movement of Lucas'/Ness' recovery tool

Ok
...

All I said I never had a problem with this. Why is stating my opinion so bad huh?
You say PKT2 aiming was unpreditible on that stage?
WELL GOOD FOR YOU!
Cause for me, I never had a problem with this. At all.

The hell? I literally didn't have an issue with nades on lylat!

Screw you guys! XD

Also Luco said this on page 13. This his opinion of snakes nades on lylat. AN OPINION. So why the hell am I getting **** for stating my opinion? Cause what I've just quoted didn't contribute to the discussion of snakes nades AT ALL by your logos.

 

[ViVa]

I hope you guys don't keep arguing over that harmless comment. Let's wait until we get a good look at new lylat until we discuss it's place on our stagelist any further.

 

[Jamwa]

Ok
...

All I said I never had a problem with this. Why is stating my opinion so bad huh?
You say PKT2 aiming was unpreditible on that stage?
WELL GOOD FOR YOU!
Cause for me, I never had a problem with this. At all.



Also Luco said this on page 13. This his opinion of snakes nades on lylat. AN OPINION. So why the hell am I getting **** for stating my opinion? Cause what I've just quoted didn't contribute to the discussion of snakes nades AT ALL by your logos.

what

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

what

what

 

[Luco]

You guys are fiiiiiiine, really. ^_^

While big battlefield seems... hmm, interesting to play on; I think it could be a lot of fun potentially. A bit like the old pictochat transformation in Brawl with billions of platforms, except a bit more fun to work with heheh.

 

[Shaya]

Kusanagi, perhaps avoid providing opinions for things which you don't have tournament experience in?
There's usually a noticeable contrast that most can see, and many don't really want to have to explain every nuance of why it's an issue, hence some abrasion. If your 'opinion' seems to clash with those with tournament experience, people will react positively if you ask why this is the case.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Kusanagi, perhaps avoid dabbling in things/opinions that you don't have tournament experience in/from?

Gr8 B8 M8 I R8 8/8 No H8
But seriously tho..... I've played in a few before... a few meets, a few 20-40 man tourneys here and there with a few friends from school during brawls lifetime.
So how would you know that I haven't had tourney experience. Its not like you know me personally or anything
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[Luco]

Kusanagi, perhaps avoid providing opinions for things which you don't have tournament experience in?
There's usually a noticeable contrast that most can see, and many don't really want to have to explain every nuance of why it's an issue so you could understand easily.

I'd argue that providing an opinion on something would be fine provided it's open-ended and leaves room for other input. Thus why I liked Viva's comment on it being harmless because I really think it was haha. I'm happy to explain my thoughts on these things (though perhaps this thread isn't the place for it, and I understand that) or even have a conversation about it, so I feel like the issue isn't about Kusa's ease of understanding it because i'm happy to discuss it; but moreso where it's being discussed.

Thus, to Kusa, if you want me to talk about it in depth i'm happy to discuss it with you over VM; though I suspect it's probably not something you're all that interested in save for a passing thought hahah.

Anyway, this is getting just a tad off topic, and I apologise. Normally i'd substantiate this with some on-topic discussion but I don't think its needed; there's not much to talk about right now until more evidence comes in for stages, or if someone has something to raise about the viability of a particular stage.

 

[Jamwa]

So how would you know that I haven't had tourney experience. Its not like you know me personally or anything

because every good ness/lucas player has a problem with Lylat

 

[Lex__]

because every good ness/lucas player has a problem with Lylat

I have a problem with it in PM and it doesn't even move!

 

[Redact]

Gr8 B8 M8 I R8 8/8
But seriously tho..... I've played in a few before... a few meets, a few 20-40 man tourneys here and there with a few friends from school during brawls lifetime.
So how would you know that I haven't had tourney experience. Its not like you know me personally or anything
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

my opinion is that items r fine I never had a problem u don't know me m8 I played with my dad.

it's very universal that lylat is a stage with issues, you need to be able to consider other peoples stances and opinions when it comes to making a ruleset rather than looking at your own as an end all

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

because every good ness/lucas player has a problem with Lylat

Are you implying I suck with Lucas?
What is wrong with you?

its true doe

my opinion is that items r fine I never had a problem u don't know me m8 I played with my dad.

it's very universal that lylat is a stage with issues, you need to be able to consider other peoples stances and opinions when it comes to making a ruleset rather than looking at your own as an end all

Tell that to Jamwa

 

[Jamwa]

Are you implying I suck with Lucas?
What is wrong with you?

its not my fault ur so ****ter-shattered, butthurt, ass damaged, rectal wreckaged, flank flustered, gluteal distressed, crushed keister, numb bummed, compromised caboose, demolished derriere, fanny frustrated, booty bothered, colon clobbered, anally annihilated, colon crucified, booty tickled, buttmad, sphincter-sore, orifice obliterated, rear ruined, anally anguished, saddle sore, rectal ragnaroked, ass-blasted, knicker knackered, booty blasted, posteriorly pulverized, cavity crippled, pooper pained, buttsad, bum burned, rump rustled, taint troubled, bottom befuddled, and bad at lucas.

 

[Lex__]

Lets get back to topic guys, we have to prepare for a rule set for the SA tourney.

#thisishow****getsdone

YEE

 

[PrettyCoolGuy]

its not my fault ur so ****ter-shattered, butthurt, *** damaged, rectal wreckaged, flank flustered, gluteal distressed, crushed keister, numb bummed, compromised caboose, demolished derriere, fanny frustrated, booty bothered, colon clobbered, anally annihilated, colon crucified, booty tickled, buttmad, sphincter-sore, orifice obliterated, rear ruined, anally anguished, saddle sore, rectal ragnaroked, ***-blasted, knicker knackered, booty blasted, posteriorly pulverized, cavity crippled, pooper pained, buttsad, bum burned, rump rustled, taint troubled, bottom befuddled, and bad at lucas.

Yee

 

[Shaya]

^ 3DS or WiiU?

 

[ViVa]

It's Wii U. I assume they need a stage list so that's where we could start.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

This got really off topic. I'm Sorry guys
Anyway back to stage discussion