Australian Meta Knight Legality

[Shaya]

Snake definitely has multiple disadvantaged match ups (Marth, Olimar, Pikachu, Dedede..)
Falco definitely has multiple disadvantaged match ups (Pikachu, Ice Climbers...)

Marth at best goes even with diddy and dedede - but most people agree he loses to the two.

The only real potential problem is diddy kong. No disadvantaged match ups that I'm aware of.

 

[escro]

if what you sa about diddy is true, then would it be likely that diddy would be the new MK in terms of dominating the scene and overpowering?
honestly i dunno about matchups much, but certainly any non MK char wouldnt be able to dominate as much as MK...

 

[...Ellipsis...]

I still don't understand why you are banning MK when it's not even a problem in NSW and how does having MK make the atmosphere any worse? Like I said before if you really want diversity you should just solely run mid tier tournaments or make them the 'main' event.

Edit: **** yeah 888 posts

 

[Ghostbone]

The only real potential problem is diddy kong. No disadvantaged match ups that I'm aware of.

I'd say he loses to Snake and Wario.

But he goes even with like everyone anyway >.>

I'd be more worried about IC really.

 

[Remastered]

It has been argued for a long time that Marth would be the top char if it wasn't for MK.

Snake runs even with every character you mentioned above Shaya. At worst its 55:45, which is still an incredibly viable MU to play. MK tbh was Snakes biggest threat of late.

top tier will be Marth, Snake, Diddy in no particular order.

Now to look at the effect this has on new people joining the scene and wandering why MK is banned, and not really understanding why. Old players who have mained MK there entire competitive life will now be at a disadvantage as there sole character has been banned 1 year out from the new game release. If anything, this will hurt the scene more than people realise.

Yeh Cao the qld brawl scene is making a pretty decent resurgence in comparison to other states

 

[Shaya]

Marth won't be better than Diddy, Snake or Falco. Diddy will win more tournaments, Snake is fully capable of winning tournaments. Falco has bad match ups but they're uncommon.

And you overrate Snake.

 

[Remastered]

Only because more people main Snake and Diddy because of MK.

If this was done earlier, Marth would currently be the top character. Given his worst MU is D3 which in my opinion is 50:50. He only has one other MU that isnt considered even.

Edit: Snake is underrated, and only had a small fall from grace because MK's learnt the MU in later competitive stages of brawl.

 

[luke_atyeo]

mmm snake is a great character but one of the things that gave him the spot of 2nd was that he was the only character that could (in certain situations) fight mk equally or even to snakes advantage.

now that he's lost that, it'll make him go down abit, because there are characters that **** snake harder then mk could.

luigi is one of diddys worst matchups, but nobody plays luigi because he gets dominated by pretty much everyone else.
mk is gone, but marth is still around and luigi cant do **** to him.

pikachu will probably become the new pocket character since he's good against both snake and falco, and is a solid character is his own right

 

[Attila_]

Lol snake is bad now. 5 bad mus running around, and no mk to kill them all.

Silly kids.

 

[Vyse]

The only real potential problem is diddy kong. No disadvantaged match ups that I'm aware of.

Same with Fox in Melee.

However.

Both characters have exploitable weaknesses. Like getting ***** off the ledge.

 

[Ghostbone]

Same with Fox in Melee.

However.

Both characters have exploitable weaknesses. Like getting ***** off the ledge.

Fox loses to Falco and Marth. (Marth could be argued to be even in NTSC I guess)

And Marth won't dominate without MK, at most, he'll be as good as his position on the tier list says he should be now.

 

[asianaussie]

pikachu has no bad matchups in 64

doesn't matter an ounce since punishment is like 800x easier and more effective

dunno why i even posted

 

[Ghostbone]

pikachu has no bad matchups in 64

doesn't matter an ounce since punishment is like 800x easier and more effective

dunno why i even posted

The 64 community is so small it doesn't really matter how good Pikachu is.
And yea the skill gap in that game is so much greater, it's not a problem at all.

More people should play 64, it's quite fun...

 

[Alzi]

Poor Metaknight..

Is banning him here in Australia a good idea, I mean Australia doesn't have any good metaknight players. Banning him in Australia all I see is a problem to people who don't even place that well with him here and have him as a main.

But if it must be done it must be done. Would be interesting to see how stuff will change with him out but imo over here in Australia I don't think much would change.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Meta Knight's boring though.

So I don't care, lol

 

[Ghostbone]

I think SA would greatly appreciate if they could justify banning MK.
So if the rest of Australia wants to we definitely will.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

^ The polar bears would be forever grateful ^

 

[Remastered]

So our best MK main in Aus loses to a DK main. This must mean we have a serious MK issue!

 

[KuroganeHammer]

One set doesn't mean anything really, especially considering the only reason DK is considered bad is because Dedede, and because matchup inexperience is dumb sometimes.

UNLESS YOU WERE BEING SARCASTIC OR SOMETHING

IN THAT CASE I AM LOL'ING <1+5-3

 

[Shaya]

Define 'serious MK issue'.

Because I have my own definition .

 

[Ghostbone]

So our best MK main in Aus loses to a DK main. This must mean we have a serious MK issue!

Pretty sure he lost because he didn't know the match-up.

I can beat Allen's DK with MK, really it's just a matter of playing really gay :/

 

[Attila_]

Earl ***** him in their second set, btw.

 

[Timic83]

slippery slopes~

 

[Remastered]

Shaya has his own definition for everything

 

[MTGod]

Everybody just calm down. To low tier.

It's a play on words!

But seriously where are the low tier tourneys at?

 

[Attila_]

Low tier tourneys are ****. Lucas is broken.

Think something of my Lucas was recorded or at least saved at bam :D

Lack of time makes things hard.

 

[Jamage]

Funny how alot of you laughed when SA did the semi/soft ban on him yet are saying he should have been banned all along.

 

[Leisha]

I just want metaknight banned because I personally think he's unfair, but its a bias on my part. But I'm not alone since a majority want him gone anyway.

OR at least ban him for a while and see how it goes, if it really destroys the community that badly then people can just re introduce him again. As for me, I'll probably move to another game since mk ruins the fun for me.

 

[...Ellipsis...]

I really don't think MK should be flat out banned. Although I think it would be fine if you restricted his use, for instance only let MK be used against other high tier characters (tiers S, A and B in the latest list).

 

[Splice]

I don't agree with this. In Australia MK does not control the results and I'm pretty sure there are more Marth players than MK players, maybe discluding SA because they all play MK or something.

I don't think anyone quit because they got beat by MK, perhaps a lot of newcomers quit because they got beat in general.

If you ban MK i guess i definitely quit because the only people left to play in Melbourne that are better than me play gay characters that make the game slow.

Leisha your character is trash and gets wrecked by heaps of characters, and is so bad as to have a -3 against MK. The average is probably -2. GaW and Pit have a -2 against MK, but look at Jei. He'd never lose to an MK coz he mains Pit and they use MK. He rips MK to shreds, and he'll beat Earl before he beats Attila even though the Snake MU is better. Myself I love to play against MK. But leish your character will never be viable even if MK is banned so i dont see why that would decide whether you stay or not.

So if MK has some even matchups (which means he isnt god; he doesnt need to have a counter, but even MUs where the MK cant win just coz he has MK) and the characters he ***** get ***** by other characters too, why is a ban a good idea?

Perhaps maybe because in America everyone uses him and he commands the placings. In Australia we have Earl who doesn't dominate majors (he does wll though because he is good) and the rest of the MKs are so bad you could treat it as a "BYE". Well, Adept is actually alright but thats beside the point. The conditions are completely different and we don't have the same reason to ban MK that America does.

I guess if MK is banned in America, maybe we should ban MK for better competitive chance in America, but as far as our own scene goes, whilst we're all still within this country, MK isn't actually doing any damage at all and the brawl scene is just made up of people who lose and like to whine and attila who wins but he still likes to whine anyway.

By the way, and on a kind of redundant note (because MK is legal there...) is anyone going to APEX?

 

[Shaya]

Liam is quite the comic.

Meta Knight already is banned in the united states Splice, get with the program.
And if you think the primary problem with meta knight is him ******/winning tournaments than you need to wake up.

Just about every meta knight main has quit, as did scores of players who felt that the game was either play mk, or gg. He's influenced our rule sets for the longest amount of time to the point of mass negativity about everything rule set related because "omg it will make MK gayer".

You're very late to the party.
Meta Knight has already done its damage to Australia, and what we have left now is what we have, no real meta knight problem, but there's still a huge crater left by him. Removing MK to me is the only logical choice left now as to give this game a chance to brighten up again - yes, I agree it may be too late, but I'll do it anyway.

 

[Splice]

You lack comprehension.

 

[...Ellipsis...]

JP can you actually explain how banning MK will 'brighten' up the scene, or do anything for that matter?

 

[Splice]

What damage has MK done in Australia

 

[Grim Tuesday]

K, just read through this thread.

1. No one is going to become over-dominant. With MK gone, the top tier is really perfectly balanced.

2. Marth is overrated, goes even with like... everyone.

3. We shouldn't just say "MK isn't a problem in Aus, so lets not ban him". Even though I agree he isn't a problem, it isn't as simple as that. I want to get to the stage where I can travel to America for Smash, so I don't want to be practicing a game where MK is legal and then lose at a tournament where MK is banned, it is like playing two different games.

4. Pikachu 64 is comparable to MK, but due to 64's small scene and the skill gaps between the players, it doesn't really matter. Fox Melee is not comparable to MK, he loses slightly to Marth and Falco overall and is nowhere near as good as MK.

5. Character diversity will definitely increase in my state, not sure about you guys though.

 

[luke_atyeo]

yeah I think he's being banned here on a matter of principal rather then an actual impact or a call for change.

Funny how alot of you laughed when SA did the semi/soft ban on him yet are saying he should have been banned all along.

I dont really recall this, I think your confusing that with the fact that alot of us laugh at SA no matter what they do.

 

[swordsaint]

splice

your argument is "mk isn't dominant to warrant a ban here"

implying we should just let mk players start beating us stupid and then fk over their work with a ban when we cant beat them anymore.

 

[Alzi]

What is funny is when America does something over here everyone follows along straight away.

I remember ages ago people wanting metaknight banned and most people would just lol at them. I just find it funny how when a herd of sheep do something the rest follow.

Our top players in Australia don't even use Metaknight and I bet no one actually has a serious problem vsing a metaknight from Australia. I will bet anything that if you remove Metaknight from tournaments here nothing will happen, Whether he stays or goes nothing will change here in Australia.

Shaya:
Meta Knight has already done its damage to Australia

m2k's Metaknight is the only Metaknight that did damage to Australia lol.

Edit: Although the only good thing I see from this is that if you ban him here you are following with America and the new rules of the game.

 

[Shaya]

Remember when Melbourne had 50 man tournaments on a regular basis and eventually became known as "metabourne" - and numbers dwindled noticeably over the course of a few months. At this time, Sydney was actually growing in numbers, but alas we've fallen a bit behind now.

 

[Splice]

Grim I like your post.

splice

your argument is "mk isn't dominant to warrant a ban here"

implying we should just let mk players start beating us stupid and then fk over their work with a ban when we cant beat them anymore.

That is not what my argument is.
And the implication that you are reading into your false argument is completely backwards anyway. Because I am against banning MK, so why would I want your hypothetical scenario to happen? Not to mention I'm pretty damn sure that never would happen. The people that are at the very top of the scene in QLD, VIC, NSW and SA are all types that I really don't think would pick up MK. not 100% sure if Ted would ever want to but I doubt that.

That's completely beside the point though, fortunately.

The best reason to ban MK for us, is, as Mason put it in his 3rd point, to be in the same competitive ruleset as America. Because as of right now we have no other reason of any value, and I don't think that what you think the argument that you think i was thinking was implying is worth much either

That is a benefit.
It is unknown for sure right now, but whether banning MK expands or shrinks our community is the other thing to consider. If it expands the community, then you have two good reasons to ban MK and the only bad thing to consider is will you be sad if some people leave the scene because of this (for the record though I think Earl is going to pick up Lucario anyway, not quit)

But, I never thought MK mains deterred anyone away from the scene especially, at least not within Victoria and I've never heard of it from other states. So if banning MK is going to damage the scene then, is that worth it so that the rest of us can aim towards playing competitively in America? IMO that's all there is to consider because everyone elses personal issues with the character in Australia are out of poor personal traits rather than good reasoning.

That last paragraph is pretty much my argument btw Scott, and if it was implying anything it was probably that if this ban does cause a fair bit of damage to the scene within Australia, I really doubt its worth it so others can compete in America, but at the same time it could be. To me though, Aussie players competing in America seems as distant as your imaginary world where a bunch more people than Earl are able to beat Tibs, Attila and Ted with MK and major placings have 3 MKs in top 5. But hey, how distant is that from truth? I think it's pretty damn far tbh, but if you think it's reasonable then chances are you probably still disagree with me

@Shaya: Correlation =/= Causation
Also i dont understand the part about Sydney, are you saying people started to quit there because melbourne had 4 MKs? sorry.