At long last, Presenting GSH2, a Brawl+ Nightly Test Set and Discussion Topic

[Deleted member]

um...superarmor on grabs has been in since melee ...in fact, grabs were technically invulnerable (intangible) in melee (a.k.a not superarmor)...although I agree that the shieldstun needs to be fixed majorly. However, hitstun is fine. I would also like more hitlag


----sort of rant---

All grabs have psudo super armor. If a grab connects on the exact frame that the grabber is hit, then it acts like the grabber has super armor. However, the armor only applies to an attack from the person you're grabbing, so it couldn't be used to go through any attack from any direction.

I really don't see a problem with it. Since it's only a 1 frame window, it's no worse than Melee power shielding.

Ah ok. That makes the superarmor grab fair then. All i needed was clarification I suppose.

But yeah, I also think the shield stun is too high to punish aerials/moves after shielding. All in all, GSH2's pretty amazing and definately balances the game to a better extent.

 

[omegablackmage]

oooo so autosweetspot when you hit someone near the ledge is a glitch? i thought it was wierd that that was added.

on grabs: i def agree with jcaesar. No one should have a 0 to death on anyone without some chance to get out. Its been proven in many fighting games, including smash, that an opportunity for a mix up makes the game more interesting and much less aggravating. Essentially we want skill placed in the hands of those who know how to read situations well and react, rather than to those who know how to do the same combos over and over.

on shield pushback near the ledge: i think that if someone has their back to the ledge, its certainly a disadvantaged situation for them, and if the attacker chooses to push them off with an attack, then they should feel the repercussions for letting themselves get there in the first place.

haven't gotten a chance to mess around with samus yet, but after hearing about these bomb changes and missile mixups, im excited.

 

[Glick]

Super armor on grabs is great. Because it can help break through offensive walls. It's just that it also helps a grabber get grabs easier. That would be fine and dandy unless grabs are extremly powerful as they were.

A techchase or slim percent window for a killing move should really be all grabs lead into. Either that or the throws just kill themselves.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

I personally completely hate super armor on grabs only because CPUs spam and abuse grabs at every given second they can. Then again, I almost never use grabs since I kinda don't need em, or I just can't seem to actually get anyone. Grabs have always seemed pretty useless to me though in Brawl. o_o

 

[KOkingpin]

How in the world is dthrow similar to choke besides it forcing you to the ground (besides the armor frames =P)?

Ganon has to be close, and doesn't have the pull back that choke does. Choke also has a bigger grabbox than regular grab iirc, but it's less safe. Dthrow is more reliable (of course more so in close range), but choke is very good for mixups and confusing the opponent. The pull back on it can also be very good for punishing baited approaches.

Dthrow is also untechable, too. And it spikes without the opponent grabbing the ledge, yet is meteor cancelable iirc. Damage too.

Question though: Is there any difference between the armor of regular grab during the beginning of the catch and Choke's?

Im almost certain that Dthrow IS techable. like Fox's Dthrow in Melee.

 

[Revven]

It is KO, it's techable.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I'm honestly not feeling or seeing any changes besides edgecanceling and Ganon's D-throw. Other than it seems Falcon is really really really terrible this build.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

I'm honestly not feeling or seeing any changes besides edgecanceling and Ganon's D-throw. Other than it seems Falcon is really really really terrible this build.

...Huh? O_o

Falcon is AWESOME in this build. What the heck are you on? O.o

 

[Kink-Link5]

...Huh? O_o

Falcon is AWESOME in this build. What the heck are you on? O.o

I'm on Battlefield, trying to figure out why he feels so clunky and... awkward compared to last build.

 

[The Cape]

In the last build most of his landing lags were about 5 frames. One of the things that was done for GSH2 was to raise all ALRs on all characters to a minimum of 7.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

He doesn't feel clunky at all. Falcon outright failed in GSH1 since he felt so slow as molasses both on the ground and in midair. His attacks didn't seem to hit quite right either.

In this build he feels as free-flowing and smooth as he usually is in Brawl+. I haven't had a problem punishing anything I've fought against using him. What're you having problems with? o_o'

 

[MK26]

i bet hes missing the pac

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

i bet hes missing the pac

Best laugh I've had all day. And I'll laugh even harder if that turns out to be the case. XD

(Hey! Thanks for the ZSS fix MK! :3)

 

[MK26]

happy to be of service

 

[ValTroX]

Falco is awesome, he feels great, the only thing that kinda limits him is his shine, which in a couple of minutes I decided not to use it at all for other reason than deflecting projectiles that will surely hit their sender.
Edit: Cape, I still fell that projectiles should force get ups on hitting grounded opponent in ALL situations

 

[ValTroX]

oooo so autosweetspot when you hit someone near the ledge is a glitch? i thought it was weird that that was added.

I suggested a while back that this should be removed and Shanus answered me that he wanted to, but couldn't find the code in fighter.pac. He also said that I should look for the code and try to help him out a little, but I couldn't find the program to open the .pac and even if I could find the program, I probably couldn't find the code because I have no idea what to look for.

I personally completely hate super armor on grabs only because CPUs spam and abuse grabs at every given second they can. Then again, I almost never use grabs since I kinda don't need em, or I just can't seem to actually get anyone. Grabs have always seemed pretty useless to me though in Brawl. o_o

Grabs are a HUGE part of my game, mostly because some of my friends play overly defensive and grabbing/tech chasing means a lot in my game. Also, now that Mario got a buff in his bthrow(in GSH1) it's a great weapon with awesome killing power at low 100's near the edge.

 

[sffadsad]

I'm liking this build so far, but there are two moves in particular that I want to point out.

The first is the one that a lot of people seem to have a problem with, Falco's shine. I get that the change was made to make it more punishable, and I'm not saying it was an unnecessary change. The problem I have with it is the way it feels. The beginning of the animation moves at regular speed, but the sudden slowdown as the reflector comes back feels terrible. It's like watching the reflector float through, well, molasses. This slow down is made even more extreme by the fact that the before and after actions, the throwing of the shine and the jump cancel after it, run at a pace much faster than the reflector's return. It feels so awkward and out of place that I don't use it anymore and rely more on SHL to set up approaches and combos.

The second attack is Ganon's downthrow. Sure, the chain grab on fastfallers was pretty stupid, but the way it acts now seems redundant. It feels like it does the exact same thing as his over-b without the bonus of being able to initiate the grab from farther away. Maybe it should just go back to being similar to Falcon's down throw.

Other than that it feels pretty solid. I'm liking Squirtle's new fair. It's no longer stupidly spammy, but it's not insanely slow either. Feels pretty good. I would appreciate more kill power from it, but bair works fine to that.

 

[Thunderhorse+]

The first is the one that a lot of people seem to have a problem with, Falco's shine. I get that the change was made to make it more punishable, and I'm not saying it was an unnecessary change. The problem I have with it is the way it feels. The beginning of the animation moves at regular speed, but the sudden slowdown as the reflector comes back feels terrible. It's like watching the reflector float through, well, molasses. This slow down is made even more extreme by the fact that the before and after actions, the throwing of the shine and the jump cancel after it, run at a pace much faster than the reflector's return. It feels so awkward and out of place that I don't use it anymore and rely more on SHL to set up approaches and combos.

Once again, I stress that Falco's shine will be changed. In fact, there is already a shine change coded (still without JC in air. Waiting on Shanus for that). I'm going to ask Cape if I can distribute it in a test .pac and see what you guys think of it.

The particular part of the shine you complained about, the fact that it's slow as molasses on return, was the exact reason I wanted to streamline it in the first place. The new one is much more evened out, with the return being marginally slower than the initial throw. If I had to compare the overall feel of it, imagine it like the vBrawl shine (slightly slower. startup is 4 frames longer and return is 2 frames longer. Everything else is vBrawl shine stats) with IASA on grab and the Brawl+ shine effects.

The best part is, it achieves almost exactly the same effect as the current shine. You'll only get 2 more frames of advantage over the current one you just have now (IASA bumped by only two frames. Also the endlag naturally seems more reasonable with 5 frames of endlag cut down from the version you're using). It just looks more polished than before.

 

[Dan_X]

Once again, I stress that Falco's shine will be changed. In fact, there is already a shine change coded (still without JC in air. Waiting on Shanus for that). I'm going to ask Cape if I can distribute it in a test .pac and see what you guys think of it.

The particular part of the shine you complained about, the fact that it's slow as molasses on return, was the exact reason I wanted to streamline it in the first place. The new one is much more evened out, with the return being marginally slower than the initial throw. If I had to compare the overall feel of it, imagine it like the vBrawl shine (slightly slower. startup is 4 frames longer and return is 2 frames longer. Everything else is vBrawl shine stats) with IASA on grab and the Brawl+ shine effects.

The best part is, it achieves almost exactly the same effect as the current shine. You'll only get 2 more frames of advantage over the current one you just have now (IASA bumped by only two frames. Also the endlag naturally seems more reasonable with 5 frames of endlag cut down from the version you're using). It just looks more polished than before.

Yeah TH, I'd LOVE to get a copy of Falco's new PAC. Feeling generous? Throw it on media fire and PM me the link!

 

[shanus]

I suggested a while back that this should be removed and Shanus answered me that he wanted to, but couldn't find the code in fighter.pac. He also said that I should look for the code and try to help him out a little, but I couldn't find the program to open the .pac and even if I could find the program, I probably couldn't find the code because I have no idea what to look for.


Grabs are a HUGE part of my game, mostly because some of my friends play overly defensive and grabbing/tech chasing means a lot in my game. Also, now that Mario got a buff in his bthrow(in GSH1) it's a great weapon with awesome killing power at low 100's near the edge.

Me asking you to do that was meant to be more of a rhetorical in that its an extremely complicated problem. I want to fix it, but finding the problem is extremely difficult because hitlag doesn't have its own actionID or anything remotely close to one. Its some hidden subroutine or something

 

[ValTroX]

Me asking you to do that was meant to be more of a rhetorical in that its an extremely complicated problem. I want to fix it, but finding the problem is extremely difficult because hitlag doesn't have its own actionID or anything remotely close to one. Its some hidden subroutine or something

It's alright dude, I'm not judging you or anything, just informing people that you are already on it, and as soon as you find where the problem lies, you'll be able to fix it.

 

[proteininja]

I was maining random yesterday, and when shiek came up whe was a ton of fun. The only problem I noticed is that when I did her forward thrw it sent my opponent straight up in almost the same position as down throw. It seemed redundant, and counter intuitive. I would like my forward throwing motion to send my opponent forward.

 

[omegablackmage]

actually ninja, thats probably an effect of the mixup that the fthrow has, but i haven't played the new shiek so im not 100% positive.

When i had been playing her in the last build, at high percents if you fthrow near the edge and they di into the stage, they will be sent up, perfectly setting them up for a tipper'd upair for the kill. If you want them off the edge go for the fair or if you need them below the edge, go for the grab release to chase. Bottom line, its dependent on the di of your opponent (assuming things didn't change).

***

edit:

is the updater working properly yet?

 

[ValTroX]

I was maining random yesterday, and when shiek came up whe was a ton of fun. The only problem I noticed is that when I did her forward thrw it sent my opponent straight up in almost the same position as down throw. It seemed redundant, and counter intuitive. I would like my forward throwing motion to send my opponent forward.

Sheiks Fthrow angle depends VERY MUCH on DI.

 

[proteininja]

I was playing against the level 9 CPU, so I didn't think that it was di. But if it can be di'ed tremendously then even the CPu could do it.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Sheik's forward throw is EXTREMELY DI dependent, no matter what the numbers say. It can sends nearly perfect horizontal or straight up, depending on DI.....it's either try to get up and ad through a followup, or DI down and away

TL; DR: Sheik's fthrow does not always act like her down throw (although I really don't like the new down throw)

 

[Isatis]

Should be working properly, is it not?

 

[Roxas215]

I LOVE CHARIZARD. That is all(Although he has one of the most punishable recoveries in the game. Both at the ledge and when landing.)

I need to find a new brawl+ main. Peach+ totally messes with my mindset when i play vb that i decided to just not use her in b+(As **** as she is)

Charizard may be it! Zss is close too though! However i noticed that most of the follow ups she had from her dthrow is gone now. Is this due the decrease of hitstun or changes made to her dthrow? Im not complaining cause she is still very fluid in everything. Just asking!

 

[God of Humility]

This freezes on me. I installed it myself (no autoupdater) and it freezes everytime I try to access the CSS. Am I alone in this? Is there a fix?

 

[Shadic]

Delete Common5.pac.

You aren't the only one.

 

[God of Humility]

Delete Common5.pac.

You aren't the only one.

Thanks, it works.

 

[omegablackmage]

it works bionic, but cape mentioned that some pacs didn't get integrated into it, like ivysaurs (dair changes werent there). Dunno if he fixed it yet.

 

[ValTroX]

I LOVE CHARIZARD. That is all(Although he has one of the most punishable recoveries in the game. Both at the ledge and when landing.)

I need to find a new brawl+ main. Peach+ totally messes with my mindset when i play vb that i decided to just not use her in b+(As **** as she is)

Charizard may be it! Zss is close too though! However i noticed that most of the follow ups she had from her dthrow is gone now. Is this due the decrease of hitstun or changes made to her dthrow? Im not complaining cause she is still very fluid in everything. Just asking!

just...don't play vbrawl :D

 

[Roxas215]

just...don't play vbrawl :D

Lol honestly i would love to play soley brawl+ However im in a crew and 1 maybe 2 other people play brawl+ and thats it. So vbrawl remains lol.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Lol honestly i would love to play soley brawl+ However im in a crew and 1 maybe 2 other people play brawl+ and thats it. So vbrawl remains lol.

If your friends are completely ignorant of Brawl+'s existence, just do what I do and drag them into it. My friends all loved it since they couldn't stand how Brawl was normally anyways. XD

 

[ValTroX]

If your friends are completely ignorant of Brawl+'s existence, just do what I do and drag them into it. My friends all loved it since they couldn't stand how Brawl was normally anyways. XD

^This. That should solve all your problems

 

[Kink-Link5]

In the last build most of his landing lags were about 5 frames. One of the things that was done for GSH2 was to raise all ALRs on all characters to a minimum of 7.

Ah, that probably explains it. The timing was all screwy when I was trying to combo with uair and/or nair.

 

[Isatis]

it works bionic, but cape mentioned that some pacs didn't get integrated into it, like ivysaurs (dair changes werent there). Dunno if he fixed it yet.

http://brawlplus.net/dl2.php
nightly/fighter/pokefushigisou/FitPokeFushigisou.pac:private/wii/app/RSBE/pf/fighter/pokefushigisou/FitPokeFushigisou.pac:3070ee305044c36d63db91bac29b9f34

It's in there to be downloaded...I'm honestly not sure what's wrong because I haven't seen the error myself If Cape wants me to re-upload some stuff he can tell me on AIM and I'll upload it.

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

http://brawlplus.net/dl2.php
nightly/fighter/pokefushigisou/FitPokeFushigisou.pac:private/wii/app/RSBE/pf/fighter/pokefushigisou/FitPokeFushigisou.pac:3070ee305044c36d63db91bac29b9f34

It's in there to be downloaded...I'm honestly not sure what's wrong because I haven't seen the error myself If Cape wants me to re-upload some stuff he can tell me on AIM and I'll upload it.

Yo, get back on topic, yo.

LAWL.

@Charizardrecoveryjohns: Char has two doublejumps, a glide, ROCK SMASH, and upB which has SU frames and actually kills.

Edit: Erm...just thought of something.

Ganon with a GSH2 Falcon DThrow would be manslaughter. ._. Giving it more BKB would be the only way to go D:

 

[JCaesar]

Charizard's recovery is pretty crap... distance-wise it's fine, but so was vBrawl Pit's recovery, and his was crap too.