Ask VMan about Yoshi Thread (A General Yoshi Discussion)

[AXE 09]

I'm honestly not buying the vman super modesty act, as this ****in thread has been up and prosperous since the second week he's even played Yoshi, and not once have I seen him take a critiquing post very seriously, as if he actually always assumed himself to be the best without fail, and was only posting vids to show off.

What? Listen, I think you have the wrong idea. Just because Vman didn't implement certain advice that you guys gave him into his playstyle does NOT mean that he just shrugged it off and ignored it.

The thing is that Vman wants to play a certain style of Yoshi. He wants to play what he considers an entertaining playstyle, which to him is a fast/flashy/aggressive one. Just because he is not slowing down his play or making certain defensive options that you guys are suggesting does not mean that he doesn't appreciate your advice and consider everything that you guys say. Even if he doesn't post a detailed "thank you" message, I know that he always cares a lot about what you guys say.

I promise you that Vman doesn't post vids just to show off. He's my best friend, and I know him very well. He just wants to post vids to show his progress and entertain the community. That's just what him and I love to do. We're huge on entertainment, and we find flashy/fast/aggressive styles and movements to be entertaining. That's our number 1 priority.

The last thing he wants to do is overshadow you guys. He's not trying to say "no other Yoshi player matters but me." He's trying to say "look at all of this crazy stuff that Yoshi can do. Yoshi has potential, and more people should play him!"

You have the wrong idea if you think Vman is just trying to embarrass you and doesn't care about any of your advice. He's just trying to represent Yoshi with a style that he finds entertaining and fun. Please don't get the wrong idea.

 

[Nogzor'z]

@Nogzor - Holy hell you've improved quite a bit, (or at least gotten used to tourney pressure) I'm impressed, keep it up. I really like your choice of moves in your approaches, but one big mistake I've seen is that you normally aren't that great at following up once you do land your openings. Something I've been doing a lot recently is ending juggles early with f-air to give myself better position, and tech-chase to continue pressure/combos, just a recommendation to give it a shot, because it's the best possible option on the floatier cast like marth, sheik, pika, etc.

Yeah, i definitely felt a lot more comfortable playing in tourney, competitively, against other human players.
I've been told before, and I myself know, that my follow ups when i get an opening or land a combo starter aren't the greatest. Im definitely putting this on my things to work on. (That fair Idea is a pretty good idea, like you said especially on floaties where juggling does really work. Where as fair would leading to techchase, or jab reset if the miss-tech.)

As a john I'd like to say that my techskill wasn't a on point as i would've liked it to have been (hence the full hops that should've been wavedashes <<its possible that the R button on my control is dying ) But whatever.
I'll probably try to buff up my consistency along with your recommendation, and some ideas of my own. All while slowly trying to implement parry/DJCC more of course

 

[YOSHIDO]

OMG what the heck. here I am studying Quant Phys and expecting to have nice talks with fellow yoshi's about moves and just vids in general. What the heck, We've been inactive for years. Here comes vman, with a different mindset. And very open to different opinions. U don't have to be on his D**** 24/7 to know that he's at the very least a positive influence on the community. We've all usually been able to have nice discussions about everything. Axe and rubyris and even taj all just came to put how they feel about the topic. It's not like we have enough Yoshi's running around to be stupid to one another.(lol G rated)

@Nog- Great job man, You were definitely able to stay safe most of the match.

@ Leffen- Stop lashing out on people with your freaking non- experience insecurities. You've had problems with just about everyone because of it. We aren't in anyway trying to judge you. When we had are little discussion, i wasn't trying to say that since I've been to 'x' amount of tournaments and you haven't that your opinion doesn't matter. It's just the strategy your speaking of in my mind would not work in a competitive scene over here namely the camping with ledge eggs vs. Falco. We should leave this egg lay discussion alone lol. But just for the record, right now it appears to be a safe mix up. When people start doing something about it. That's when we'll change up, like with every other situation in this game.

@Yoshiiscool - What's with the rage man. I haven't seen you post in long while. What happened between you and Rub and vman to make you talk like that. Not that it's any of my business or anything.

 

[darkgirku]

But just for the record, right now it appears to be a safe mix up. When people start doing something about it. That's when we'll change up, like with every other situation in this game.

This pretty much sums it up.
let's just all start over and all main yoshi.

lol

i think ima do egglay experiments next time I play. hmm.

V3ctorman, I was really disappointed when you weren't at the tournament lol. I was looking forward to playing your yoshi (with a variety of characters) to help me and angel develop more ideas about our lil dino. From what I've seen, you've gotten a looot better with yoshi since the last tournament we saw you at. I hope you keep playing yoshi -at least- for fun, regardless of what happens here and maybe we'll get to play next time we go down to Tucson =D

 

[Mind Trick]

angel you got a really nice style and seems like youre a smart player
if you work a bit more on your punishment game you can be a beast

now...
Moo's post +1 sooooooooooooooo much
especially thoughts on egglay, describe mine perfectly, and last paragraph
these boards always were chill and laidback with the likes of shiri, d1, bloshi and a ton of other people but ever since some of the newer school came here it's been nothing but biatching around

dont give me that **** yoshido, 'We' were inactive, wtf, I was always repping Yoshi hard, just nobody noticed it because I'm not american or live in AZ

also all you people *****ing about leffen's validity, he actually had posted a link way back where you could dl some of his matches, but no one bothered (ajp's site for anybody wondering)
also leffen, you come off as an ******* so much on these boards, fix your attitude man

rubyiris gtfo out of here seriously, or gtfo of the internet entirely please
way to take one sentence and take it completely out of context you f***ing troll
az is king of the world speech is getting old as well why are you not perma'd again

I'm done here, especially this thread fffffffffff

 

[Taj278]

If it's not too much trouble, could someone respond to my claims?

 

[ChivalRuse]

Well, Taj, leffen did kind of address a lot of your points in a post a few pages back. Let me see if I can dig it up for you.

Note: I don't buy his arguments at all. Just wanted to show you how he would try to counter you if he hadn't given up already.

Egglay = Medium-high risk - slim to none reward.

• First flaw: Egg lay gives your opponent ~20 frames of invisibility when they break out.
  [*]Second flaw: You do half damage while staling your moves which means eggs, nairs and uair are less useful than you may think.
  [*]Third flaw: Your opponent gains twice the aerial mobility - starting at full speed while yoshi is still lagging. He can also fast fall whenever he wants to.
  [*]Fourth flaw: It is slow, and has a horrible hitbox.
  [*]Fifth flaw: Your opponent. Does. Not. Lag.

What this boils down to- there are always better options. always. Like any moves it has uses because people don't expect it, but thats about it. '
Since you dont lag after breaking out of the egg, you can just hold down and mash R and get a perfect waveland everytime and still have extra invisibility frames after you stop lagging. Did I mention that they dont even suffer hitstun while you don't suffer from hitlag when they are in the egg but you still do?

It isnt a godsend in ANY matchup. If you think so, then you are playing yoshi wrong, and your opponents suck at adapting to yoshi.

Lets take a matchup most believe it's good in- peach.
First of, there is NO WAY you can ever hit during her float if she isnt absolutely ****tarded.
it has a so small hitbox - adding peach float hitboxes it even worse. You basically have to be a entire yoshi ABOVE him before you start the move if you wanna hit.

Anyway, lets say you hit with it. Peach flies so high while being able to travel wherever she wants- she can go 3/4 of FD before she even hits the ground- without yoshi not being anywhere close to catch up with her. Even at 100%+ you can mash out with ease before yoshi gets close. So you are in disadvantage, not peach. Peach can start floating anytime she wants to. If you touch her shield you are ****ed up.

Add this to egg lay only dealing SIX percent on peach and you have a horrible move.

Do I even need to go into marth? Free tipper if you miss, counter, up b when you are djcing, wavedash.
Spacies? Alright I'll admit you can use it as a gimp since bad players hit fastfall by accident, but anywhere else its more or less useless. They can Side b, shine, perfect shffl during invisibility and just jump away
Oh and if you ever try to **** with falco onstage then you deserve to die.


TLDR: Egg lay deals no damage, your opponent doesn't lag and gets invicibility. And it has a horrible hitbox.

alright, first of all: When your opponent shields, you are in advantage. He is in frame disadvantage, you can move freely and he is limited to what moves he can use.

So:
What does yoshi want when your opponent is in his shield?
Think fox: He wants a grab, nair and shine are both just means to keep him guessing, he can't get much from a shine unless he predicts it.
Falco? He wants a dair or a shine, catching his oos move while being safe. Grab is simply a means to force your opponent to do smth.

Yoshi? A Nair, ftilt, uair, bair or a smash attack. Basically catching his oos. Jab, eggs and grabs are to keep your opponent uncertain.
Egg lay does what? Remove all of your advantages of your opponent being on the defensive, remove his mobility issues, removing any limitations due to lag and oos and HE is in advantage due to the invincibility.

It's falcos grab, but without any good options like shine grab. It isnt fast, has a horrible hitbox, your opponent can choose to where he wants to go and hes in advantage and it doesnt have any follow ups and it deals less damage.
Oh and falcos is safe on spotdodge, roll and wins over all oos options in use with shinegrab.
Yet, people still dont use his grab often
Why?
Because you gain way less from a grab than his other options.

Egg lay is like his grab, only 500 times worse with no rewards whatsoever but OHHH, you can do it in the air! Which basically doesnt mean **** since your opponent is most likely to do his oos option when yoshi is in the air.

@Axe it's bad hitbox and low reward means its a bad spacing move. Bowser has no good shield pressure, his side b kills and his opponent is most likely to do his oos option when bowser is on the ground.

You can't ever "just sneak in a uair/nair"
First of, you have no jump if he punishes you ( HI FALCO ) , it deals ~4-7% while staling your best moves.
anyone with decent mashing skill can mash before yoshi gets anywhere near you, let alone get a aeirials the middle.

@ Chivalruse : Like I care? It's the internet...
Though it is funny that everyone values v3ctorman opinion the most while everyone more or less ignores mind tricks, which is the only yoshi who have actually achieved in a tournament.

v3ctorman: I have no videos because AJP's computer crashed ( twice ), and I have no way atm to upload videos though Im planning to get a dazzle...
And I don't think you're dumb, just annoyed at your egg lay useage.
Look at your latest set vs axe ( his fox and falco ). You got NOTHING out of any of the egg lays and got punished hard for using it.
Please show me a video of you using it well vs a person who knows about spamming R/L.


Im sorry for not uploading any videos, if you think my yoshi is really unlegit then ask ppl who were at beast or swedish players ( ppl who use swf are prob Nizro, Hack, UchihaJP, Paju or smth )

 

[KirbyKaze]

I think Egg Lay is most comparable to something like Jigglypuff's throw in the Puff ditto.

I mean, it doesn't really do much on its own. In fact, it barely puts Puff at disadvantage (with that much aerial mobility, it's really easy to avoid getting hit most of the time when coming down or returning, in the same way that Egg Lay grants invincibility).

Having said that, it does reduce the opponent's willingness to block (which is amazing when all your true combo starters are actual moves) and that it works in the air gives Yoshi some opportunities to hit it for free that other characters can't really take advantage of.

Not sure how useful it would be against people that are familiar with it though. That they gain invincibility is a big problem.

 

[ChivalRuse]

^ Summed up the way I think of it beautifully (amazing example with the Puff ditto). Why are you so awesome, KK?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Because I talk to Cactuar enough so my analysis skills regarding this game have improved a bit. This is compounded by my extensive game knowledge. I also have Dr. Peepee on AIM if I want to bounce thoughts off someone. Unknown knows a lot about everything too (particularly low tiers) and he's around a lot so I can ask him if I have questions or if a certain mechanic is bothering me.

Oh wait, that was a serious answer.

Uhhhh, because of bananas.

 

[ChivalRuse]

I love it when you give serious answers.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I love it when you talk data to me.

 

[AXE 09]

I think Egg Lay is most comparable to something like Jigglypuff's throw in the Puff ditto.

I mean, it doesn't really do much on its own. In fact, it barely puts Puff at disadvantage (with that much aerial mobility, it's really easy to avoid getting hit most of the time when coming down or returning, in the same way that Egg Lay grants invincibility).

Having said that, it does reduce the opponent's willingness to block (which is amazing when all your true combo starters are actual moves) and that it works in the air gives Yoshi some opportunities to hit it for free that other characters can't really take advantage of.

Not sure how useful it would be against people that are familiar with it though. That they gain invincibility is a big problem.

Wow this is a great little analogy imo. I like this

I don't feel that the invincibility is that big of a problem though. It sux cuz it doesn't let you follow up with anything right after they get out of the egg, but I don't think it lasts long enough for your opponent to punish you.

For everyone in this thread, I'm sorry if I'm bothering you guys I just wanted to express my thoughts on this move.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Well, yeah, that's the point.

Even with the tool, objectively speaking, blocking still isn't that bad vs Yoshi if they relax and understand that airborne Yoshi doing 6% to them really isn't all that bad. Being able to shake out of the Egg before he can hit it, and get invincibility to protect themselves to ensure a safe landing essentially means they've gone +6% and returned to neutral. Which is comparable to eating a fireball from a distance. I mean, yeah, damage sucks, but it's just chip damage. It won't kill. I still see no reason why semi-lightshield wouldn't still really put a damper on Yoshi's offense, even with his ability to do chip damage.

The invincibility is also where my comparison is flawed. Puff's aerials mobility allows her to escape the disadvantageous position of being thrown fairly consistently, but not every time. Proper invincibility abuse will ensure Yoshi's opponent touches the ground or gets away every time, which is a key distinction.

The final part that troubles me is that the throw does damage and returns them to a neutral position. Even Falco's F-throw after some point forces them to tech. That Egg Lay puts them in a neutral position means that you're not really gaining an advantage despite capitalizing on your opening, which I think is leffen's main point.

However, this is all theory bros melee so until people start abusing why characters are not mid/top/high tier, let's discuss how cute Angel looks when he "combos" aerial Egg Lay > U-smash lolol

Also, this is all done with the idea of Egg Lay being a pressure tool in mind. I've seen some really odd behaviours with that move in your recent set, AXE, so I wouldn't be surprised if there were some strange, situational applications that I'm not aware of. The move seems to have some very strange mechanics.

 

[Nogzor'z]

lolol "combos" ))

 

[YOSHIDO]

Lol yay close to strat talk again.

@ Mindtrick- I wasn't talking about you specifically. I was saying as a community. There haven't been to many new yoshi threads. We were down to three I believe, and one of the last post date back to 07. (random tangent) I wish i had gotten to play and meet shiri. But every time he went south, I was heading north and vice-versa. An I don't know what happened to bloshi. I know D1 plays fox for now i believe.

But anywho, So when do yall feel it's okay to commit to a djc Up air approaching wise with yoshi. I might have spoke or asked about this before. But I can't remember. I believe one good situation would be to perform it as he jumps to shoot a high laser. Any other suggestions?

 

[ChivalRuse]

I mean, yeah, damage sucks, but it's just chip damage. It won't kill.

I heard a rumor that if you ever reach 300%+ without dying, your head will explode from pure awesomeness of having survived that long.

@ Axe: You could never be a bother to anyone. Don't sweat it.

 

[leffen]

<3 u kirbykaze lol.
Tho please note that in most matchups his dthrow is his best KO setup / combo starter, and every aerial is safe on shield, so its in no way a legit way of getting rid of the shield option.

@ Yoshido: Go reread the argument. Rethink camping edge with eggs. Refuse to improve. Continue.

@Mind trick. I agree with you, I am an *** on the internet because being nice without having a combo video will only be dismissed ( I posted new AT’s, new counterpicks and no one even noticed it or even tried to implement it. Why the hell would I continue? At least the whole egg lay **** caused some discussion which made some reasonable ppl discuss it, tho the side effect were definitely not worth it ).
It’s silly how self centered the Americans are, even the really polite ones like Vman, Taj etc all show a huge bias for their region / country.

@ Taj
“It's like saying that Marth's forward smash isn't viable. You can't walk around spamming it, and there are plenty of ways around it if the opponent is ready for it and punishes it. (Wavedash out of shield, side steps, shield grabs, jabs before start up.) It is a move that has to be spaced, and is only effective as a combo in certain situations and its effectiveness varies based on the character it is used on.”
Im sorry, but your example is really bad in this case. You are talking about punishing fsmash if hes ready for it and moves around it. That is not the point ffs. You have LOADS of ways to get around egg lay; it has a outright horrible hitbox and lots of lag. The point is that it sucks EVEN IF YOU LAND IT. Your fsmash example is based on your opponent is shielding, prediction, bad spacing and interruption ( egg lay is slower than fsmash and in many cases you wont have your dj left ).
Marth fsmash combos, kills and can be used as a great spacing tool and a edgeguard AND has a great risk-reward. It can never be punished on a proper hit and you are in advantage 99% of the time.
Egg lay deals 6% and puts you in disadvantage over 90% of the time. Combos, killing, spacing and edgeguarding are crap with egg lay.
If you don’t see the apparent problem then this discussion is worthless.

:::
Vman didn’t really do anything wrong, the source of the problem is people overestimating / assuming stuff and he shouldn’t stop playing yoshi cause of it. The very thread title ( even if its sarcastic ) is a horrible way of introducing yourself.

Also Im sorry but no, playing good in friendlies vs people he has played for years does NOT MAKE HIM A GOD. But yet you still always assume no one has said the very same thing about Mind trick, because he is not American.
And do you guys really think that me having a videos would make people value my opinion any higher? That is bull**** and you know it.
Armada had loads of videos, better tournament record than any American player and there had been no battle between EU and USA. Yet people think that Armada doing good at genesis was a HUGE upset. There was A LOT of interviews of top players before genesis. Every single one answered “I don’t think anyone out of USA is a big threat”. But every time someone pointed out Armada could be the best they got flamed for hours by every American out there. Do you think Europeans flamed Americans for saying Mango was the best? Of course not.
Whats even more funny is that people still cant get that America isn’t overly superior. People think M2K is better than Amsah by default, Armada was STILL seeded under m2k at apex, after placing higher and winning versus him every tournament.

 

[darkgirku]

Leffen, how do you feel about using egglay for recovering purposes? I feel it offers another option for yoshi, especially since edgeguarding him involves hitting him with an attack that out prioritizes his aerials. Egglay can negate these attacks. yes? no?

I'm not saying its "lol toogood for recovering" but just thinking about it maybe being another option for his recovery (we all know he needs anything he can get regarding recovery)

 

[KirbyKaze]

I'm pretty sure if you've DIed his D-throw, most characters escape his D-throw combo. Maybe not space animals but... I'd be really surprised if Sheik, Peach, and Marth didn't get out.

And I understand that his aerial game is fairly safe because of the nature of his low aerials and DJC. However, his game is much less solid vs options OOS than someone like Falco's because he doesn't have something really fast and amazing (frame wise) to slot in between his Nairs or whatever. If someone says jab I will slap them and not take their opinion seriously... you can WD OOS vs jabs if they're spaced and they can never follow you because of the jab cooldown. So don't give me that.

Because of this, Yoshi's pressure just has more holes in it, and Egg Lay potentially covers this weakness. However, it does have flaws.

 

[Nogzor'z]

So I was typing up a reply but now i'm too scared to post it For i feel it may get off topic. :////

Whatever, lemme post something silly so i stop feeling depressed.

I LOVE YOSHI.

(Man I'm a wuss*10)

 

[KirbyKaze]

Just post it. It's the internet lolol. The viability of Egg Lay can definitely be revisited if there's interest in it.

Man why don't I just mod all the character boards lolol.

Oh wait it's because I'm a gigantic troll sometimes.

 

[Nogzor'z]

It’s silly how self centered the Americans are, even the really polite ones like Vman, Taj etc all show a huge bias for their region / country.

well yeah, there can be self-centered people in any geographical or cultural area. Just because Americans show it more, In gerneral (and I agree with this), doesn't mean you should simplify ALL people from America as self-centered people. from what I've read You seem to be approaching a slight Stereotype, Which (If I were you) would realize it and try to avoid it.

I've just recently met the VMan, Taj, and the other smashers of Arizona and yeah they have a "Bias" for their region, but you can't immediately conclude them as self-centered people. It's more like a competitive feel for a team. Like Soccer, For example (seeing as to how it's sort of a world followed sport) Obviously the people root for other teams and things can get heated when teams rivals play against one another, but Hopefully, by the end of the day, The coolheaded people accept their win/loss and go about their lives as normal.

At least this is my thought on those "Biased" smash players. But maybe I just give to much credit to the "average person" (I hate calling a person Average) and lmy mind thinks more of the world than it should.

I really feel bad for posting this for i feel I may begin to take a general Idea of what you may be like, leffen. In reality, I would want to meet you individually (along with all other smashers) so as to not get skewed ideas.

Unfortunately Smashboards will suffice.

 

[Nicknyte]

Leffen is a communist. Go back to China, you hippie! Vman for President.

 

[Nogzor'z]

lol...
:/

 

[KirbyKaze]

I get the impression that Angel is like 14 and is realizing only now how silly people are on the internet / smash community.

 

[darkgirku]

Lmao

nah he's just cool like that, and is in college.

 

[yoshiiscool]

If someone says jab I will slap them and not take their opinion seriously... you can WD OOS vs jabs if they're spaced and they can never follow you because of the jab cooldown. So don't give me that.

Yoshi can jab cancel <3

 

[Nogzor'z]

I get the impression that Angel is like 14 and is realizing only now how silly people are on the internet / smash community.

lol I gave myself that impression after this little conundrum.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Yoshi can jab cancel <3

And they never once stopped my WD back oos

 

[AXE 09]

Also Im sorry but no, playing good in friendlies vs people he has played for years does NOT MAKE HIM A GOD. But yet you still always assume no one has said the very same thing about Mind trick, because he is not American.
And do you guys really think that me having a videos would make people value my opinion any higher? That is bull**** and you know it.
Armada had loads of videos, better tournament record than any American player and there had been no battle between EU and USA. Yet people think that Armada doing good at genesis was a HUGE upset. There was A LOT of interviews of top players before genesis. Every single one answered “I don’t think anyone out of USA is a big threat”. But every time someone pointed out Armada could be the best they got flamed for hours by every American out there. Do you think Europeans flamed Americans for saying Mango was the best? Of course not.
Whats even more funny is that people still cant get that America isn’t overly superior. People think M2K is better than Amsah by default, Armada was STILL seeded under m2k at apex, after placing higher and winning versus him every tournament.

I'm just gonna clear things up about myself, individually.

To start, I had never even heard of Armada until Genesis. I had no idea who he was, but then I saw this (in my eyes) "unknown" Peach player beating all of our best players, then even Mango in Winner's finals. Ever since Genesis, Armada has been my favorite player, and still is today. Results show that Armada is at least 3rd best, under only Hbox and (now arguably) Mango.

Ever since Pound 4, I have always put M2K and Amsah at an equal ranking. In my eyes, for now, they are tied (however, Amsah beat Armada at Pound 4, while M2K has never beaten him, so I could see why some people would put Amsah over M2K).

If you think I'm just some "American who's bias for my country", think again. I look at all smashers as a whole, and I do not divide them by their region. I could care less where the smasher is from. I am not bias. Of course I'm going to cheer for my closest friends though (who all happen to live in AZ, so of course it's gonna seem like I'm bias). Just saying, I was one of the only ones cheering for Armada vs M2k at Apex, and also at Pound 4. I don't care where the player is from. All I care about is their playstyle and how they are as a person. Armada is an extremely awesome person, and I love his playstyle more than any other of the top players. Therefore, he is my favorite player.

Spoiler

This really has nothing to do with anything, but just saying a random fact: I was born in Europe lol.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Axe's favourite player is Armada iirc.

Also... I hate everyone, don't feel discriminated against Europe.

 

[ChivalRuse]

When Axe says that players in AZ are good, it's not regional bias. He's just recognizing skill, even if it's not at the highest level (which is a lot more than most people are willing to do).

Because Axe is an awesome person.

 

[Rubyiris]

I think Egg Lay is most comparable to something like Jigglypuff's throw in the Puff ditto.

I mean, it doesn't really do much on its own. In fact, it barely puts Puff at disadvantage (with that much aerial mobility, it's really easy to avoid getting hit most of the time when coming down or returning, in the same way that Egg Lay grants invincibility).

Having said that, it does reduce the opponent's willingness to block (which is amazing when all your true combo starters are actual moves) and that it works in the air gives Yoshi some opportunities to hit it for free that other characters can't really take advantage of.

Not sure how useful it would be against people that are familiar with it though. That they gain invincibility is a big problem.

Whenever vman and angel would egglay me I would either do a floating dair if they tried to pursue or waveland onto a platform if they went for positioning, but it did its job of making me weary of blocking.

Sure they didn't get the followup, but when they went for positioning it reset pressure to neutral and made me less willing to turtle up in shield, which imo are the biggest uses of egg lay imo.

In fact I vividly remember making a lengthy post about those being the primary uses for egg lay and scrubby yoshi players (leffen) immediately debunked my claims.

 

[KirbyKaze]

The whole counterpoint to "it made me fear blocking" is, "why did it make you fear blocking?" It can't be followed up ever. You always reset to neutral, or close to neutral. Because it never grants Yoshi a follow if they combat it correctly, does the damage justify dropping the advantage of having a shielding opponent? Because smash is complicated I'm going to say, "sometimes".

Learn more on the next episode of: YOSHI VS. THE METAGAME.

Currently I think it's still a useful tool, though. It really does make people unfamiliar with him scratch their heads for a second and sometimes produces combos so janky they should be illegal. But they look so darned cool. Also has some weird behaviors with projectiles; watch AXE vs Angel on FD to see what I mean...

 

[Nogzor'z]

Learn more on the next episode of: YOSHI VS. THE METAGAME.

Lolol, I can't wait.

*was shocked*

 

[Nicknyte]

It’s silly how self centered the Americans are, even the really polite ones like Vman, Taj etc all show a huge bias for their region / country.

Leffen is like, my worst kinda smasher. The one who dck rides others and doesn't worry about himself. Him and his Armada fetish. (Not dissing Armada, just those who dck ride him) Listen here European Boy. I'll make this real clear to you.

If you bring your Nationalist prejudice up in here, we ain't going to tolerate you, nor give you the 5 seconds of respect that you ask for when a basic topic on "who is the best yoshi" pops up.

Tim isn't a God. Hell, he loses to my Pichu sometimes. But what he is now, is the guy in the Now. Granted, you could be the best smasher in the World at Yoshi too! Mad props for ya. But what have you shown for it? Is there anyone in your community to clarify if you are good too? If they exist, let them spread the news about your greatness.

What Tim has done, is proven to others that Yoshi is a viable character. What he hasn't done is shown to the world what it can do in a real tournament. Given, Taj and Tim are like brothers, and Tim's Combo Video is mad Hype. But don't you dare, in all of your so called intellect, blame our country for favoritism. Arizona cares for it's own. This thread was created from a Phoenician for a Sierra Vistian. Its only natural, after having V3ctorman releasing his video, people would jump and discuss his Yoshi. What you have typed, Leffen, was hatred, and I don't tolerate that. Including calling my friend Self-Centered, and you don't know one facking thing about my friend.

 

[Rubyiris]

disregard this post.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Regions will forever be biased for allied regions. It's just how it works.

Not sure how anyone's proved Yoshi is viable since nobody's busted him out and ***** face at a big tournament with him. Combo videos aren't enough. Shown he has potential that isn't used? Sure. But "viable" is a big step from "possesses untapped potential".

 

[yoshiiscool]

Yoshi's still not viable. And why in the hell does it take kirbykaze posting, and saying something a lot of us other people have been saying for a long time now, for you people to finally read and comprehend the more negative aspects of egg lay? Did you just want to wait for another name you knew?