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Ask NickRiddle how to be amazing.

fkacyan

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
6,226
Snake IS positive. It's like impossible that he's not. The issue is that he punishes our mistakes SO HARD that you have to play perfectly to capitalize on his weaknesses. That's what ZSS is, though. If you aren't playing really really well your good match-ups go from good to bad really quickly. Our moveset beats Snake's handily, seriously. His stats **** ours though.
The fact that he can set up traps for force us to have to space badly or not at all immediately negates this, coupled with the fact that the place we beat him best - the air - is a place he is never going to voluntarily put himself, at least anywhere near the opponent.

His ability to force spacing with grenades and mines (Yes, grenades force spacing because they have trigger hurtboxes; if he uses them properly you'll blow up when spacing stuff) combined with the fact that we don't really have an easy way to kill him and coupled with his ability to easily rack up percent and KO us puts the MU in his advantage. Easily in his advantage.
 

zApollo

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 2, 2009
Messages
839
Snake easily has the advantage, you just have to be a better player. Or take snake to no_fair if that's not banned lol.
 

Dark 3nergy

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
6,389
Location
Baltimore, MD
NNID
Gambit.7
3DS FC
4313-0369-9934
Switch FC
SW-5498-4166-5599
I don't really know at 4v4.
Just kinda pretend it's teams, and be angry about it. Throw out attacks.
what about armor pieces? surely in your angry rage there is a proper way to **** everything in sight with sammys helmet, shoulder piece, and possibly a leg piece arm canon

VVV so who are you again? oh yea, thats right no one important
 

#HBC | ZoZo

Shocodoro Blagshidect
Joined
Jan 12, 2009
Messages
9,800
Location
Land of Nether
what about armor pieces? surely in your angry rage there is a proper way to **** everything in sight with sammys helmet, shoulder piece, and possibly a leg piece arm canon

VVV so who are you again? oh yea, thats right no one important
Oh**** see them random dissing me :(

I'm gonna cut myself now D:
 

noradseven

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 13, 2009
Messages
1,558
Location
North Carolina
After today's super tournament..

Snake ***** us omg. Someone help me get past the wall of grenades safely :(
Uhhh block, space control. getting past the nades isn't hard, the problem is he can use it to force you to approach him in a certain way. Also learn the timing on the nade explosions it will help you greatly.

I actually like playing snake, its a fun spacing game. I still think its bad though, 60:40 Snake...maybe 55:45 snake.
 

Nefarious B

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
2,002
Location
Frisco you know
Snake is one of my most enjoyable matchups honestly, it forces you to pay attention so much. You know you're an one misspace away from getting ***** every moment, yet when you land a hit you can take advantage of that momentum so well that it all feels worth it.
 

BioDG

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
609
Any tips against MK?

Usually I play at a distance because of that annoying Tornado, but I'm not sure if that's a good strategy.
 

Chronodiver Lokii

Chaotic Stupid
BRoomer
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Messages
5,846
Location
NEOH
Hey Nick, i has a question.
Seriously debating going down to MLG columbus just to visit people and to not play brawl. Should I consider it more if im allowed to go? :3
 

Tommy_G

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
2,355
Location
Miami, FL
Hey Nick, i has a question.
Seriously debating going down to MLG columbus just to visit people and to not play brawl. Should I consider it more if im allowed to go? :3
You should always go to tournaments and enter if you're financially able to. It's not only the experience from the game, but also the experience of the competitive scene.
 

Chronodiver Lokii

Chaotic Stupid
BRoomer
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Messages
5,846
Location
NEOH
You should always go to tournaments and enter if you're financially able to. It's not only the experience from the game, but also the experience of the competitive scene.
I wouldnt be able to make it to play xD SAT or ACT (i forget which) that morning. Plus the two hour trek from NEOH would make that tough. I'd just go to watch and to meet people
 

NickRiddle

#negativeNick
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
9,913
Location
Florida
Hey Nick, i has a question.
Seriously debating going down to MLG columbus just to visit people and to not play brawl. Should I consider it more if im allowed to go? :3
It is always a fun experience. If you want to go, then do so.

You should always go to tournaments and enter if you're financially able to. It's not only the experience from the game, but also the experience of the competitive scene.
Hi Tommy!
 

Frilo

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 16, 2010
Messages
2
Since you clearly **** MK better than any other ZSS wanna give a brief summary of your strategy against them... 2nd what is your strategy against R.O.B. if you have any experience against him?
 

solecalibur

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
3,330
Location
Cbus
I wouldnt be able to make it to play xD SAT or ACT (i forget which) that morning. Plus the two hour trek from NEOH would make that tough. I'd just go to watch and to meet people
Im still debating if I'll go Friday but I'll come home friday night and leave saturday (going saturday for sure to at least spectate) if you want me to pick you up?

edit - obv question about Mks "spacing" you options
 

NickRiddle

#negativeNick
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
9,913
Location
Florida
Since you clearly **** MK better than any other ZSS wanna give a brief summary of your strategy against them... 2nd what is your strategy against R.O.B. if you have any experience against him?
Your uair beats every single one of MKs aerials. That is funny.
D-smash has a surprisingly high hitbox, that will hit more often than you would think.
Fair destroys glide attack.
Crawl away from nado, and shield when it gets on top of you.
Grab Release > Uair is fun.


I have no ROB exp though.
 

ph00tbag

C(ϾᶘϿ)Ͻ
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
7,245
Location
NC
what is your strategy against R.O.B. if you have any experience against him?
With ROB, you want to just keep up the pressure with bair, nair and dtilt. You can't really camp ROB very well, and he'll put more hurt on you at range than he will if you're in his face. Eventually, he'll have to go aerial--fair is arguably his best move (on par with ftilt) and nair and bair are difficult to space against. Once he's in the air, juggle him to kingdom come with uair. He can't do much about being juggled. Robo Burner is also really easy to interrupt with dsmash, so he's forced to recover high. More opportunities to hit him with uair. Incidentally, I feel like ZSS is one of the best characters to force ROB to run out of fuel by constantly pressuring his recovery.

The hard part of the ROB match-up is keeping up the pressure without being hit by his silly gtfo gimmicks. Ftilt is a rangey anti-air and poke move. Dtilt combos into itself and beats most ground moves. Spotdodge -> dsmash is practically one move for ROB mains, because it's very good for baiting approaches and punishing. If you can guess right which one he'll go for, you can punish with the proper response.
 

Nefarious B

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
2,002
Location
Frisco you know
With ROB learn to PS his two projectiles, they are very easy once you learn the animations. This does a lot to hinder his camp game.

He has one of the best horizontal spacing games in brawl so instead of trying to beat him there, work on landing a dtilt or grab, anything that will put him above you. From that point on, the only options he really has are fast falled nair (which is telegraphed if you know the animation, up b or uair him out of it) and gyro wavebounce mindgames. I have yet to play someone who effectively used the second option, but I can see how it would be pretty good.

SO that's ROB above you, he is very easy to juggle and frame trap there. Another area you can really pressure him offstage. ROB's recovery, while really good for that purpose, is not good if you understand how it works. WHen he first activates up b theres a noticable period where he can't attack. He also cannot airdodge or special out of up b, he has to attack or land. You can abuse both of these to continuously deflect his attempts to get back on stage. So you can side b with impunity basically. If he does get to the ledge, ROB has a hard time getting back to the stage with his ****ty options there. He can do drop down double jump projectile, which is easy to see and easy to intercept with a fair or just shield it. He can drop double jump fair, which is easy to see coming and easy to punish with a uair OOS. He can drop down double jump air dodge, which is probably one of his better options, but there's big potential for landing a dsmash on that if you predict it. He can also try and robo burner above you and get to the stage that way, but because he can't dodge out of it its upb or uair bait against us.

And then theres dsmash infinite, which is a lot like ICs infinite in that ROB has to change his playstyle to avoid that range. He can avoid it, but that means sacrificing fighting in close range where he can do decently against us, and taking to the air instead where we **** him.
 

Chronodiver Lokii

Chaotic Stupid
BRoomer
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Messages
5,846
Location
NEOH
Im still debating if I'll go Friday but I'll come home friday night and leave saturday (going saturday for sure to at least spectate) if you want me to pick you up?
Might take you up on that offer.
Probs not though because i think im taking ACT that morning
I'll probably just end up going to Colossalcon instead sadly(might staff if my help is needed). Idk though
 

solecalibur

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
3,330
Location
Cbus
I still have to find an excuse to tell my professor to change my final date ....

@topic - If you got 9th doesnt that mean you get a fat check per month and paid trip to the next MLG?
 

NickRiddle

#negativeNick
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
9,913
Location
Florida
I still have to find an excuse to tell my professor to change my final date ....

@topic - If you got 9th doesnt that mean you get a fat check per month and paid trip to the next MLG?
I wish I got a check.
Or next MLG free.
That happens after the next one.

Also, tell your professor that you have a family reunion or some ****. That works.
 

Shadow 111

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 19, 2007
Messages
1,766
Location
Staten Island, New York
Unfortunately we didn't get to play at MLG!
good stuff on your placing, dude.
glad you showed my brother that zss is still viable, btw. even if it's in this angry, competitive type of way.
always thought he should ave been sticking with zss. so, thanks for that.
anyways, some of the **** you were doing was really cool.
the zss players in this area could learn from a lot of stuff you were doing. especially your playstyle vs snakes! didn't even think of footstooling out of d smash XD.
 

NickRiddle

#negativeNick
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
9,913
Location
Florida
Unfortunately we didn't get to play at MLG!
good stuff on your placing, dude.
glad you showed my brother that zss is still viable, btw. even if it's in this angry, competitive type of way.
always thought he should ave been sticking with zss. so, thanks for that.
anyways, some of the **** you were doing was really cool.
the zss players in this area could learn from a lot of stuff you were doing. especially your playstyle vs snakes! didn't even think of footstooling out of d smash XD.
<3<3<3
Thanks.

And, yeah. I invented d-smash > footstool, but I never got around to recording it. It's like... a guaranteed kill on almost half the cast.
 

solecalibur

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
3,330
Location
Cbus
<3<3<3
Thanks.

And, yeah. I invented d-smash > footstool, but I never got around to recording it. It's like... a guaranteed kill on almost half the cast.
Just wondering...
that's where you footstool after a dsmash combo then bair right?
 

NickRiddle

#negativeNick
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
9,913
Location
Florida
On snake you can probably just get sticked by him and he's gimped after the footstool : P
D-smash > footstool > land on stage. Wait for him to C4, and try for a flipstool. The range of that footstool is actually bigger for some reason, making it easy to get a gimp.
<3 footstools.
 
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