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[Blubolouis]

I'm using falco as a counter to MK. Now how do I kill him? My opponent sometime reaches 180%+ when I can't get the kill.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

First things first. Expect that this to happen often. That is simply how Falco is, he does not get a kill very easily.

Anyway, here's a quick list of common killing methods.
1) Bair. Probably the best and safest method Falco has considering MK might like to float around in the air a lot. You can throw it out relatively safely when you are under a platform he is on or out of shield if he uses an aerial on your shield. Another thing is you could Bair him out of an attack. Larger downside is that it really won't kill until probably 140% or so.
2) Usmash. There are a lot of areas to throw it out. Canceling your shield with a jump and canceling that jump with an Usmash makes for a quick out of shield attack on any laggy attack/miss spaced attack MK uses. With the Dacus, you can cover an area quickly to get over to MK if he is too far away to punish normally (tornado landing lag for example). If you manage to grab MK, you can attempt to release him. If you get an air release, you can combo dacus over to him. This is not guaranteed however and is ruined by any platforms in the way or if MK does not air release. But provided no platforms and an air release, it will work.
3) Lasers. If you use "silent" laser, then you can combo into usmash/dsmash.
4) Tilts. If MK is getting into really high percents (nearing 200%), you can kill him with tilts. Utilt is great to try if you catch him on a platform. Ftilt is great out of jab cancels or simply spacing the attack.
5) Spotdodge. You spotdodge MK's laggy missed move like a dash attack or grab, and then proceed to Usmash/Dsmash him.

There are other ways, but they are pretty uncommon to see.
-If MK is into the habit of UpB near the ledge, you can attempt to Dair near the stage ledge (while on the stage obviously) and hope for a trade in hits (MK gets spiked by Dair while you get hit by UpB). -Fsmash can work, but you really have to rely on MK to mess up for it to work such as him spotdodging, airdodging past you (and you get that read), or in a really laggy move.
-Uair can work as a follow up move if MK was hit high up very high such as spike on stage, usmash, utilt, uthrow, bthrow, etc.

Overall, Falco his issues getting a KO if someone is really adamant about not getting hit by a strong KO move. Try to play how you would at lower percents wracking up damage. Eventually the moment where you can KO MK will show up. Otherwise, you can get the KO eventually from normally damaging moves like tilts or Bair.

 

[teluoborg]

Jab Jab Usmash all day Blubo, Jab Jab Usmash all day.

I'd say Usmash Bait Utilt and Uair are your best options, but they all require MK to screw up at some point so just wait.

Or if you have some balls you can edgehog while MK's recovering and use your invincibility frames to Bair/Dair. It's not as risky as it sounds, you just have to know your timing and don't ever try it if you run out of invi frames.

 

[-DR3W-]

To add onto Xeylode's list, BDACUS works if you don't stale usmash and if it's unexpected.
Also, back air and usmash out of shield is da bes :]

 

[StarFruit]

falco really doesn't have the best safe killing potential so be willing to take some risks...getting hit is sometimes worth it - use those mind games. there are so many times when I just fsmash people off the ledge or predict their recovery. Take that risk sometimes and go for a kill at lower percents...DONT get too obvious though. If u just start throwing out smashes and what not you WILL get punished. If you fail a risky attempt, dont just go back and do another one, wait a while and catch them off guard. Dont get too risky either, especially with metaknight I wouldnt recomend going for a gimp off the stage cause you probably will get gimped. Watch the game for a bit - find patterns - abuse their mistakes...opponents WILL make mistakes especially under pressure. oh and drew said it all with the BDACUS...specially if they spotdodge alot...charged sweet spot bdacus = death

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

First things first. Expect that this to happen often. That is simply how Falco is, he does not get a kill very easily.

Anyway, here's a quick list of common killing methods.
1) Bair. Probably the best and safest method Falco has considering MK might like to float around in the air a lot. You can throw it out relatively safely when you are under a platform he is on or out of shield if he uses an aerial on your shield. Another thing is you could Bair him out of an attack. Larger downside is that it really won't kill until probably 140% or so.
2) Usmash. There are a lot of areas to throw it out. Canceling your shield with a jump and canceling that jump with an Usmash makes for a quick out of shield attack on any laggy attack/miss spaced attack MK uses. With the Dacus, you can cover an area quickly to get over to MK if he is too far away to punish normally (tornado landing lag for example). If you manage to grab MK, you can attempt to release him. If you get an air release, you can combo dacus over to him. This is not guaranteed however and is ruined by any platforms in the way or if MK does not air release. But provided no platforms and an air release, it will work.
3) Lasers. If you use "silent" laser, then you can combo into usmash/dsmash.
4) Tilts. If MK is getting into really high percents (nearing 200%), you can kill him with tilts. Utilt is great to try if you catch him on a platform. Ftilt is great out of jab cancels or simply spacing the attack.
5) Spotdodge. You spotdodge MK's laggy missed move like a dash attack or grab, and then proceed to Usmash/Dsmash him.

There are other ways, but they are pretty uncommon to see.
-If MK is into the habit of UpB near the ledge, you can attempt to Dair near the stage ledge (while on the stage obviously) and hope for a trade in hits (MK gets spiked by Dair while you get hit by UpB). -Fsmash can work, but you really have to rely on MK to mess up for it to work such as him spotdodging, airdodging past you (and you get that read), or in a really laggy move.
-Uair can work as a follow up move if MK was hit high up very high such as spike on stage, usmash, utilt, uthrow, bthrow, etc.

Overall, Falco his issues getting a KO if someone is really adamant about not getting hit by a strong KO move. Try to play how you would at lower percents wracking up damage. Eventually the moment where you can KO MK will show up. Otherwise, you can get the KO eventually from normally damaging moves like tilts or Bair.

This is helpful as I want to use Falco for the bat and I know the MU to a degree (so tired of trying 1689787% as DDD its so bad) its just I don't even get the kill till like 170% unless I'm lucky and my opponent let me BDACUS out of a Down Throw or I get something dumb off. I tend to get impatient when it takes a while to kill them.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Alright, I was wondering about the so called dash attack canceled grabs. The pivot grab out of the dash attack canceling is great and is easy to see the boost out of it. But, even with this frame advance help, I cannot get a nice visual in the range between a regular dash grab and the dash attack canceled one. If anything, I feel like there is no difference between the lengths. The real trick is waiting a bit after dashing before inputting the dash grab to go further. I am just not sure though.

Does anyone know where the whole dac grab came from that gave us further grabbing range? I simply heard people mention it. I felt like it might have been that way, but I have not found any video showing the differences for any character.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Are there any practical applications for Platform Canceling with this character?

 

[exdia_16]

question? wat do you use to finish your CG?

 

[BluB]

Are there any practical applications for Platform Canceling with this character?

Opponent standing on the platform in his shield waiting for an attack -> platform cancel grab -> profit

question? wat do you use to finish your CG?

mostly dair but against a few characters buffered dash attack for mixups.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Dair works if you're confident in techchases, if you read a lay-down you can even laserlock (be bold lol)

Or dash attack and hit with a weaker hit because it pretty much guarentees a followup. Especially against chars like DK with a bad fair.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

In many situations, you can get away with Dairing them at the ledge because if you spike them, their options are super limited. Forward Smash becomes viable here if you space it right because it hits really far in front and partially behind Falco so it covers almost everything if you Dair them at the right spot and they dont tech.

Its essentially the version of the Buuman trap except its works on more people.

Note: Does not cover get up attacks though.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Are there any practical applications for Platform Canceling with this character?

I read that as phantasm canceling at first -_-

The only time this has ever been really useful in my opinion was setting up for a laser lock off of a footstool (which is like ridiculous to get right anyway). CG -> footstool -> platform cancel -> ff -> silent laser -> laserlock

Other than this I have not heard of any practical application that wouldn't be universal (simply as another movement option).

question? wat do you use to finish your CG?

I just mix it up. If I have room I will fthrow and chase afterwards. People usually do not expect a fthrow (rather the dthrow instead). So their DI isn't quite the same for a fthrow compared to a dthrow. Basically if a person uses an aerial or airdodge after the fthrow, you can pretty much powershield/shieldgrab them and continue the process one or two more times. Depends upon a lot of stuff (like DI), but usually you can get them to react first and punish most actions.

I mostly find this useful for getting people closer to the stage ledge if the CG failed to do so due to being unable to boost pivot grab or higher starting percentages for the CG.


Edit: Also, I was just thinking of bluffing habits. I'll use Marth as an example. If you never use counter, your opponent will usually not think about trying to cover that option. As soon as you use it once, they will be on guard for repeated uses or forget again (allowing you to use it as a surprise later). The more you use it, the more they are wary of trying to wait you out to make sure you don't do it again. So say you use counter 3 times in a row coming down in the same situation. I'll take a guess and say that by then they likely would have caught on and wait you out (hoping for another counter you will not give them), thus giving Marth less pressure on a recovery later on. You bluff your opponent into thinking you will counter in the same situation again, but then not do it.

I wonder if Falco has anything to bluff regularly to try to help get kills earlier by making a bluff of some sort.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

lol that sounds sooo janky. My tech skill legit but I dont know if I could consistently pull that one off in a heated tournament set.

And I usually Dair people after a CG because well..there's my name. lol Also even it doesnt spike you can still land behind them and possibly get a regrab or just something good. At that point you have the positional advantage anyway. If I want damage I might do Gatling.

 

[I Dair You]

my favorite is dthrow to 37% > SH dair fastfall > double jab cancel > regrab ***** MKs

 

[-DR3W-]

lol, the MK I play DI's away so that's not possible for me.

 

[Kasper!]

my favorite is dthrow to 37% > SH dair fastfall > double jab cancel > regrab ***** MKs

lol, the MK I play DI's away so that's not possible for me.

loooooooool yh same

 

[Orion*]

I'm using falco as a counter to MK. Now how do I kill him? My opponent sometime reaches 180%+ when I can't get the kill.

Make the hardest read of your life... or get mad lucky. LOL

lol that sounds sooo janky. My tech skill legit but I dont know if I could consistently pull that one off in a heated tournament set.

And I usually Dair people after a CG because well..there's my name. lol Also even it doesnt spike you can still land behind them and possibly get a regrab or just something good. At that point you have the positional advantage anyway. If I want damage I might do Gatling.

I don't even bother with gatling after cg anymore unless I play someone with incompetent DI, the best I ever get at this point is just the Dash Attack. Mr.R has it to the point where he DIs that **** and then punishes me after the USmash comes out with FF fair + followups. Not even worth it, IMO almost always dair. Sometimes I usmash in specific situations

 

[-DR3W-]

Yeah, that's what happens when the same people do the same **** for 3 years.

Dark Falco be on dat wifi laddaaaa

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Hey. What are some of the oldest smasher names you can think of? And I mean like Smashboard account names rather than actual gamer tags or real name of people.

It doesn't matter if they are retired or not. I'm trying to look back through some of the oldest archives of the site. Really the only account name I know of was "sephirothken".

 

[V]

How many frames is Falco's jump? I'm trying to figure out the better punish when MK dairs/nairs our shield between JC usmash oos and shield drop utilt.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

-Jumping cancels any shield drop animation. And the Usmash cancels any jumping animation. So jump canceling an Usmash is fastest between those two things.
-6 frames, then airborn on frame 7 (or the first frame an aerial can start)

 

[MasterKurei]

is there anyway to escape the cg that marth has on falco? like the one that u get spiked. should i sdi to the stage?

 

[Crackle]

Where is the Falco Frame data?

Edit: NVM got it

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

is there anyway to escape the cg that marth has on falco? like the one that u get spiked. should i sdi to the stage?

I'm not sure if you can or not.

From what I recall, fthrow x2 -> 2nd jump -> Dair -> edgehog only works if it's started at basically 0%. After that Fthrow should not link into itself beyond 10% (meaning falco can escape before hand). So in the end, just camp the center of the stage until Marth basically hits you once out of the CG range. All of his attacks do basically 6% or higher thus ending his chance for an instant death.

 

[V]

You can't escape if Marth does it correctly

 

[Host Change]

is there anyway to escape the cg that marth has on falco? like the one that u get spiked. should i sdi to the stage?

I second that you cannot. One of my friends Spade is the best Marth in Alabama. He's done that to me so many times.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Yes @ V

I think Marth also had a cg x10 on fox/falco/wolf if I recall, but I'm not sure. Also, when is xthrow -> fsmash tipper stop working? I never really paid much attention to when exactly marth didn't have guaranteed follow-ups on his throws. Just camp the center for the first 10% or so, and avoid obvious grab attempts at low percents, that was all you really needed to know.

 

[V]

A simple fthrow > fsmash only works at 0% and with a max of 3 fthrows (depending on character weight). On falco he has fthrow x2 > dair spike (at the ledge, zero death) or fthrow x2 > dthrow x4 > fsmash for I think 48%

 

[-DR3W-]

My Marth-using friend said you could SDI out of it IF there's space on the stage.

Who knows.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I second that you cannot. One of my friends Spade is the best Marth in Alabama. He's done that to me so many times.

It shouldn't kill you even if he gets a couple throws in first.

 

[Host Change]

It doesn't normally ever kill me Ryker but it's a good 35% or so that he can tack on every time he catches me in it....

 

[MasterKurei]

yea i was thinking if i just SDI to the stage that maybe i can survive~

 

[-DR3W-]

Ryker. Explain yourself.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Save your double jump. It's never killed me unless I ****ed up going for a walljump or something and I've played Marth more than often enough. It's still a balls position to be in, but I don't die.

 

[-DR3W-]

Gotcha. Whenever I play a Marth/get spiked it goes down like:

Marth spikes.
Marth waits then hugs the ledge.
Single hit of side b breaks firebird.
Fall.
Bye.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Dammit, now I'm doubting myself. I don't let it happen often as it is a fairly uncommon set-up that Falco has the tools to avoid it. I do not know of a time it has killed me where I didn't screw up and either gimp myself or do essentially the same thing by having to UpB in a truly punishable position. You're gonna make me give this some extensive testing and, if I'm wrong, put this tool in the hands of a guy I have to play on a weekly basis.

 

[V]

You can't SDI tippers. If we get fthrow x2 > dair its a stock.

 

[C.J.]

My Marth-using friend said you could SDI out of it IF there's space on the stage.

Who knows.

I know!

You can survive the CG->Spike from Marth ONLY if you SDI onto the stage. Or if the Marth messes up. Falco's double jump + Firebird will not get him high enough to be able to drift back onto the stage (And if you angle it, you'll barely be able to get to the ledge). As long as Marth grabs the ledge correctly, you're dead. Additionally, he can do unnecessary off the stage tricks (DB1, DS stage spike, etc etc).

@ V, the only tipper Marth has that has an SDI multiplier of x0 is tipper fsmash. You can SDI tipper fair, nair, dair, dsmash, blah blah blah.

If you get grabbed in the middle of the stage Marth has fthrowx2->dthrowx5->tipper fsmash.

I THINK (not positive) that he can do dthrowx10 instead (it does the same amount as the above one iirc). They should each do about 48%

Any other Marth related anything while I'm here?

 

[DJ Arcatek]

After Marth spikes you, you SHOULD be able to still have your double jump. Marths will usually ledge drop and Fair/Up B you afterwards. Just prepare to tech and you should be fine.