Ask a Qusestion. Get an Answer.

[WindMajor]

-This stage is not a strength point for Falco. Relatively flat stages are his strong suit. The stage ledges present a problem for phantasm recovery and requires slightly more precision than a stage like battlefield or smashville. Firebird is still relatively unaffected by the stage ledges and is an easier ledge to grab than something like PS1.
-His full chaingrab is possible through the use of a boost pivot grab, but many characters can escape this than the standard walk/dash chaingrab.
-Due to the various levels, falco cannot control the stage nearly as easily. However, if he manages to get to the center he has a rough means of control through his jumping height in combination with his lasers. However, a mere one to two lasers from falco in a full hop or 2nd jump is far from great stage control compared to his short hop laser antics.
-The small platforms can provide support to his close-up game. But once someone retreats to a ledge or a different level, falco loses some control unless he risks pursuit at which falco puts himself at risk.
-The varying overlap and multiple levels forces falco to attack from awkward angles, some of which can be very advantageous while others harm his approach.

The stage is likely not something a falco main would train on and therefore would find it awkward to play on. With a few adjustments, he can play just fine on the stage while losing out on a number of his typical strengths. Overall, there are better stages to play on, this one is not horrible.

This is good stuff. Just one final question though:

Would you say that the stage is at least decent for Falco in the sense that even though Falco has his faults with the stage, he can still hold his own fairly well, or that it's generally unfavorable for him on a whole, and it's good to always avoid it?


@Orion - Sadly, yes.

 

[MARLX]

I am NOT TROLLING.

When falco does his side B on top of MK's nado, does it stop nado or does it make MK go downwards? (like falco's dair.)

 

[Boofy!]

few questions since I've picked up this character
1.What do you ban vs MK (I generally pick brinstar since...I just hate that stage but I'm open to suggestions and knowledge)
2.Can we BDACUS out of Shield Drop? If so when should I start the input, because i've tried and...failed
3.Can we BDACUS out of dash? If so (same as above)
4.What are some good CP's vs Diddy or should I stick to neutrals?
5.Thanks guys ^_^

1. Brinstar is a solid ban, he's always got other options so whatever stage you dislike the most, DP, RC etc.

2. Yes you can, the window is like 5-7 frames iirc

3. No

4. I prefer neutrals, you both do well on the same neutrals, but diddy performs better on certain CP's

5. no probs alby =p

 

[Host Change]

Does anybody have matchup tips for going against Olimar?

Right now he's the most annoying person for me to face, and I'm having a hard time.

 

[AndGravy]

Jab all the time. When laser camping, if he tries throwing pikmin at you, you should either shine the pikmin back at him, or jab/nair them off the moment they latch on to you. If you juggling him, try to bait his whistle. Personally, i love upthrowing after 60% in this matchup because his aerial mobility isn't that good and bair/uair are nice on him.

He can be chain grabbed up to 7 times (DEHF's CG thread).

Watch out for his grab at low percents because he can chain a couple dthrows and then follow up with upsmash and uair for a semi-hard to escape 60% combo. His uair and nair can be DIed fairly well.

Watch out for the stupidly big range on his upsmash. It goes pretty far out horizontally as well as vertically, especially yellow pikmin. Dont phantasm too much or he will just start fsmashing when he predicts it. Also, dont try to side dodge fsmash because the duration is huge.

For kills: your best bet is to get him offstage and edge hog. If he upb's early, you will have edge hogged. If he waits, you can get back on the stage before you get stage spiked. If he upb's and gets on the stage, you can easily get a hit. But watch out for if he finishes his upb just before he touches the ground, because it will autocancel.

 

[Host Change]

Thanks. That was actually very helpful! I appreciate it.

I knew Falco was suppossed to have the upper hand in that matchup, but I was approaching totally wrong.

 

[MARLX]

Who's going to ktar6?

 

[Aris]

what you guys think is one of the best secondaries for falco?

 

[-DR3W-]

Everyone is going to say Marth, Meta Knight, and maybe Snake.

Personally I think those options are alright, but not as effective as they were when originated. Now it's 2011, when people are slowly growing accustomed to Meta Knight, no one wants to deal with Marth's learning curve (and still probably lose if you're not top), and Snake gets thrown around and countered much too easily. It's just that simple and quite realistic.

Good luck.

 

[Boofy!]

diddy kong??

 

[Host Change]

I would say Olimar is not a bad choice even though he's got a steep lurning curve.

Personally I run Falco/Ness, but I must admit it's not the best combo in the world. Ness is my backup because he was my main until April, and then when I started getting into the tournament scene I picked up Falco.

Just a question to ask everyone on here while we are talking about backups, what would you guys think about the Ice Climbers as Falco's backup? I'm starting to have an interest in learning them...

 

[teluoborg]

what you guys think is one of the best secondaries for falco?

The easy answer is MK.
The theoretic answer is anyone that can handle the Pika and IC matchup (which according to the BBR are TL, Wario, MK, Peach, Marth, Diddy and Lucario).
The clever answer is anyone that can manage the matchups you can't manage with Falco.

 

[k9.]

Hey have any falcos in this thread played a really good peach player and can give some legit insight about the match up?

 

[Kasper!]

nvm i got it now

 

[PandaBear724]

Easiest way to charge a Bdacus? I'm fairly new to Falco and have Bdacus down but usually since I'm not good at charging it I'll do the flip for Upsmash and the hitbox will end before I slide all the way so I'll go straight through my opponent or stop pretty much on top of them.

 

[I Dair You]

You can set either Z or R to attack and hold it to charge bdacus. I prefer to use Z, since I have Y set to grab anyway.

 

[PandaBear724]

You can set either Z or R to attack and hold it to charge bdacus. I prefer to use Z, since I have Y set to grab anyway.

Thanks, got it ^_^

 

[Kasper!]

whats the best/reliable option for falco when someone rolls behind you?

 

[Boofy!]

i would go with f-tilt for reliability, if you read it early you can prob hit with kill move of your choice.

 

[BluB]

dash attack and grab

 

[Host Change]

whats the best/reliable option for falco when someone rolls behind you?

Personally, I would roll to where they just were to reset the situation and space myself. If reacted to quick enough it's not a bad choice. If you had to attack I would punish them with ftilt. You could also turn around and grab them.

 

[F A N G]

Two questions -

Is there some visual cue to which I could use to buffer properly on the CG? Right now I do it as Falco's feet touch the ground after he jumps up and shoots them

And what are the control inputs for BDACUS?

 

[Kasper!]

sorry i meant to say when you put your sheild up at the early stages of their roll animation e.g. mk's

what can we do from there?

 

[-DR3W-]

sorry i meant to say when you put your sheild up at the early stages of their roll animation e.g. mk's

what can we do from there?

Out of shield short hop retreating back air

 

[WindMajor]

Would you say that the stage is at least decent for Falco in the sense that even though Falco has his faults with the stage, he can still hold his own fairly well, or that it's generally unfavorable for him on a whole, and it's good to always avoid it?

Looks like I'm gonna go with the underlined.

Thanks guys.

 

[luxingo]

1. Why do pros rarely spike off the stage with a dair (other than cg to spike)?
2. How can you do a retreating double laser from a backflip without the lasers going the wrong way?
3. How do you do the sliding pivot grab? I thought it was exactly the same as a dacus except with a ←Z instead of an ↑Z when running right.
4. What's the fastest way to plank? I mean for when you're already on the ledge and you can see someone going for the ledge and you'd like to edgehog them, but you've run out of invincibility frames.

[5. Btw, why has no one fixed the name of this thread?]

 

[T3h Albino]

Is it really worth me putting int he time to learn the IC's and Pikachu matchups or should I just use a second?
If so...tips vs ic's?

 

[Host Change]

Is it really worth me putting int he time to learn the IC's and Pikachu matchups or should I just use a second?
If so...tips vs ic's?

I would just find a secondary for the two matchups. I go to smashfests regularly now, and one of my good friends there is a Pikachu main. The matchup is so bad for me that I have to play as somebody else every time against him. Pikachu can stop pretty much all of Falco's game, and I'd suggest having a backup just for Pikachu and the Ice Climbers.

In the Falco vs Ice Climbers matchup, the reflector can be your best friend. When you play a competitive level IC's main, the one thing to keep in mind is stay out of grab range as best you can. A chaingrab= certain death. I would keep the two IC's separated as best as possible, and get them separated off stage. A dair pretty much does the rest.

Looks like I'm gonna go with the underlined.

Thanks guys.

It's a map I would try to avoid. I've mained Falco since April so I'm not the most experienced guy in the world, but my personal take is pass on the map. It's not Falco friendly the way its set up and a lot of his good moves (CG, DACUS etc) aren't really worth a whole lot here. Also I've had problems with using phantasm on this map before. That's my take. Hope it helps.

 

[teluoborg]

sorry i meant to say when you put your sheild up at the early stages of their roll animation e.g. mk's

what can we do from there?

Bair OOS if he ends up too close
Backwards drifting Dair OOS to hit him out of his invi frames with the sex kick
Backwards drifting Nair OOS to land behind him hitting with the last hit of Nair
Shield drop backwards jab

Hey have any falcos in this thread played a really good peach player and can give some legit insight about the match up?

I often play Yami, only thing I can say for sure is play as usual, care for her CG, catch her turnips and Nair her aerial approaches. Other than that it's too much situation dependant.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I would just find a secondary for the two matchups. I go to smashfests regularly now, and one of my good friends there is a Pikachu main. The matchup is so bad for me that I have to play as somebody else every time against him. Pikachu can stop pretty much all of Falco's game, and I'd suggest having a backup just for Pikachu and the Ice Climbers.

Saw the location, is it Cam?

Pikachu I feel is possible. It's sure as hell a terribly bad match-up, but it's possible. I play a secondary for it.

ICs I feel is worse and have NEVER felt a desire to play with Falco.

More opinions on that would be nice.






ABOUT NORFAIR:

He's still going to beat mid tier and low tier characters here, but he's never going to CP it, so what are you looking for? It's a good stage for him against ICs. I dunno about Diddy, Snake, and Pika, but who else in top/high tier would he not be going in with a disadvantage against? Hurts his CG and gives characters that like ledges more of them to play with. It's unlevel platforms give easier avenues for characters to close distance or avoid laser fire. When the lava rises, it forces you to remain near your opponent.

Falco will ALWAYS have a better option unless the opponent is ICs (for which I think it's a pretty good choice) and thus he will NEVER pick that stage on paper (discounting some personal preference). He's only going to end up there when a character who likes that stage (Link comes to mind) CPs him there. Yes, he has tricks on that stage, but they are easily outweighed by what you lose by playing there. It's definitely a stage Falco never WANTS to be on, but Falco can deal with any stage that isn't Brinstar, so no, it's not completely terrible.

I don't know what you want when you ask for a more black and white answer on such a subjective question.

 

[-DR3W-]

Pick up Ice Climbers for Pikachu and ICs.

Dittos are a breeze and chaingrab Pikachu.

Boom.

 

[Host Change]

Saw the location, is it Cam?

Yep it sure is. The matchup drives me insane so I'm going to find a secondary, although I'm still trying to figure out who.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Would you say that the stage is at least decent for Falco in the sense that even though Falco has his faults with the stage, he can still hold his own fairly well, or that it's generally unfavorable for him on a whole, and it's good to always avoid it?

Looks like I'm gonna go with the underlined.
Thanks guys.

My vote is it is a decent stage. Falco can perform fine on it. But whether his opponents can do better on it than him is another story.

To me, there are other more tedious stages out there to play on and grow accustomed too rather than this one. Norfair simply generates a lot of different angles to work with. Anyone with enough experience should usually be able to tell when a situation is working for them or against them.

For example, say the lava has come up to the top platform, your opponent is on one of them and falco is in the air. It should be apparent that landing on the other platform is a safer option. It is those sort of calls that one usually has to make on this stage. For that reason I do not think this stage takes a ton of getting used too.

A stage like brinstar or PS2 requires actual practice on. PS2 has game changing physics which is unique to this stage only (if you ignore the small aerial part in pirate ship). And brinstar has breakable objects to abuse which delay hitboxes; terrain that is uneven allowing for sliding away upon landing with an aerial; and even part of the stage that can be rolled over or not depending upon how many capsules were broken. Oh, and lava I suppose.

Again, Norfair is decent for falco and should really only need a few tweeks in decision making for a player to do well on it. There are other stages to worry about and better stages for Falco to play on. The question is just how others play better than falco on it.

Pick up Ice Climbers for Pikachu and ICs.

Dittos are a breeze and chaingrab Pikachu.

Boom.

I'd say that playing the falco vs IC/Pika match-ups can be really beneficial to learning. These are characters that want to grab you, and attempting to play not to get grabbed could help you learn a few things.

 

[Host Change]

I'd say that playing the falco vs IC/Pika match-ups can be really beneficial to learning. These are characters that want to grab you, and attempting to play not to get grabbed could help you learn a few things.

Thats an interesting way of putting it. I would just get frustrated over how bad the matchup is. (And I have while playing people) However, I guess it could help in that sense.

 

[MARLX]

Dear falco's'


What the **** do we do against snake? His ftilt goes through almost all our moves and snake can kill us at very low percents (100-120). Please help! The snakes are ticking me off!!!!!!!!!

 

[luxingo]

I'm not sure if they got mixed up with all the other questions in this thread, but I thought that I might as well post my unanswered questions again, since I have a few more to ask. Sorry for the barrage of text.

Falco ATs:

• How do you do retreating double lasers from a short backflip (press jump, tap backwards, release jump before falco jumps), without resulting in the lasers shooting the wrong way?
• How do you shoot the ledgehop lasers so that they skim just above the ground? Whatever I do, they seem to fly at normal height, or they go into the ledge...
• Is there any way of getting down the boost pivot grab? I've got the DACUS down, and I believe that the BPG is exactly the same, but replacing the up with a backward tap, or is there something else to it?

Other stuff:

• If you're on the ledge without any invincibility frames, and you want to edgehog someone, what's the fastest way to drop and regrab the ledge?
• Is platform cancelling relevant for falco, and if so, how should it be done?
• K Prime wrote somewhere that the best way to button-mash out of grabs/shield break/frozen state/etc is to hold down on the control stick, rotate the dpad, and mash the cstick in the opposite direction to the control stick. Is that really the best way, and why would holding down on the control stick make much difference?
• What is the best move for getting rid of olimar's latched-on pikmin?
• What is falco's best option when he has no more jumps and is directly above a grounded character with a good up attack (e.g. snake's utilt)?

Tournament stuff:

• Why do pros rarely spike off the stage? That is, excluding cg to spike.
• And just wondering, are smash taunts allowed in tournaments? There's sometimes a small window of opportunity where you can smash taunt while the opponent flies off and gets KOed.

Thanks in advance.

Dear falco's'


What the **** do we do against snake? His ftilt goes through almost all our moves and snake can kill us at very low percents (100-120). Please help! The snakes are ticking me off!!!!!!!!!

His tilts may have have great range, but lasers (and the reflector) will go through all of them. Lasers are a fundamental part of Falco's game, so use them! The chaingrab works incredibly well on snake as well cos he's a heavy character. Also, how's your shield and dodge game going? You should be able to go escape his ftilt if you space well, and shield and dodge appropriately.

...and proper DI and momentum cancelling can help you live longer as well.

 

[Host Change]

Dear falco's'


What the **** do we do against snake? His ftilt goes through almost all our moves and snake can kill us at very low percents (100-120). Please help! The snakes are ticking me off!!!!!!!!!

The laser is your best friend and your reflector saves you from his nades and other crap. Falco has a superior air game, and if you grab snake while he does his recovery he just falls to his death. Not everyone knows that, but if it's a new tip to you, then use it! He cannot do his recovery again or double jump or anything so it's awesome.

Really you just have to worry about your spacing and know when to strike. Don't play this matchup too aggressive. If you have to run in there shield grabbing may be a better option.

 

[Tommy_G]

Dear falco's'


What the **** do we do against snake? His ftilt goes through almost all our moves and snake can kill us at very low percents (100-120). Please help! The snakes are ticking me off!!!!!!!!!

If there was only a circular, bubble-looking defensive device.....

 

[Brickbox]

How to I deal with lots well spaced air-attack pressure?
I always make bad decision and I always get shield poked
How to you guys deal with lots of unpunishable attack pressure?

 

[-LzR-]

I am not a pro Falco, but some smart sideB or jump away OoS should work. Don't attempt to punish. Get away. Coming from the pressurers view