A New Rule To Think About: Grab Infinites *Ledge Stall Update*

[Plairnkk]

if theres no platform above zelda and zelda grabs wario, wario is screwed. 0-death release grab pivot cg into kick or upair

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

more or less thats what will happen in that match Fro so like i said your gonna have some gay *** fights, and it'll be alot more challenging to win with him instead of snake

 

[Plairnkk]

dk vs wario is the most fun. grab release fsmash, usmash, dsmash, donkey punch, uair, bair, or dair by the edge. LOL

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

and it just gets gayer and gayer...>_>...

 

[Overswarm]

The only character in Brawl that can do this effectively is Metaknight. Other characters and do so, but they are put in serious danger... many of them have strong ledge games such as Pit, ROB, Pikachu, and a few others, but these characters are not safe.

90% of ledge stalling in Brawl is countered by simply jumping backwards off the stage, air dodging, then auto-grabbing the edge and suddenly you are invincible while your opponent is not and they are right on top of you. GG.

 

[Overswarm]

dk vs wario is the most fun. grab release fsmash, usmash, dsmash, donkey punch, uair, bair, or dair by the edge. LOL

Don't forget that you can cargo chain Wario with almost complete immunity so you can get him to the edge!

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

and gayer...

 

[Plairnkk]

The only character in Brawl that can do this effectively is Metaknight. Other characters and do so, but they are put in serious danger... many of them have strong ledge games such as Pit, ROB, Pikachu, and a few others, but these characters are not safe.

90% of ledge stalling in Brawl is countered by simply jumping backwards off the stage, air dodging, then auto-grabbing the edge and suddenly you are invincible while your opponent is not and they are right on top of you. GG.

id love to see someone get in on my edgecamping dk

 

[Overswarm]

id love to see someone get in on my edgecamping dk

I played against an edge camping DK online a few times... he just spammed a whole lotta u-airs and up+bs. So I turned around, jumped, air dodged through him, then I jumped and u-aired then grabbed the edge from 'em.

What do you do with DK?

 

[Leh]

if theres no platform above zelda and zelda grabs wario, wario is screwed. 0-death release grab pivot cg into kick or upair

I'll ban FD and fighting near/on platforms + not getting grabbed is much easier to do with wario then snake.

 

[Leh]

more or less thats what will happen in that match Fro so like i said your gonna have some gay *** fights, and it'll be alot more challenging to win with him instead of snake

Then when i OCCASSIONALLY fight that Zelda main (for all dem zelda mains out there), i'll go snake, since i'll main wario and secondary snake.

But chances are i'll still do the fight with wario. Ask seibrik, i do fine avoiding his grabs and hes d3

 

[Leh]

Don't forget that you can cargo chain Wario with almost complete immunity so you can get him to the edge!

I just tested that (and i mean JUST tested it), and no you cant, when wario is released from cargo he either goes to far away to regrab, he can also DI immediately after being released and go through you. Plus he recovers to quick to get regrabbed as well.

Not that bad..

 

[Overswarm]

I just tested that (and i mean JUST tested it), and no you cant, when wario is released from cargo he either goes to far away to regrab, he can also DI immediately after being released and go through you. Plus he recovers to quick to get regrabbed as well.

Not that bad..

You don't throw them from the cargo. You drop them. DK can then buffer a grab (similar to how Wario buffers his d-throw chains on a few characters), and there isn't much Wario can do offensively unless he has a fart charged.

It's not 100%, but it is reliable enough to get them to the edge.

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

we'll still do those matches though, i'm glad that you'll go wario just want you to know what you're in store for and i think that yoshi can gay you as well, most if not all can

 

[Overswarm]

we'll still do those matches though, i'm glad that you'll go wario just want you to know what you're in store for and i think that yoshi can gay you as well, most if not all can

Yoshi has a 0 to 999% grab release on Wario.

 

[St. Viers]

If that's what it comes down to.

I understand you're mad about it.

How do you think fox players felt when Ken came into the Melee scene and would get one grab and end that stock?

Or every single character under high tier felt when Shiek's chain grabbing a$$ came along?

It sux.

So if it comes down to it, play MK Vs MK.

If you don't allow gay tactics to happen, you'll never figure a way around them.

A month or 2 of tournies doesn't justify a ban.

Especially in a broke a$$ game like Brawl.

um, except that people learned how to DI out of both instances here, and neither of them make the game unwinnable by the the other player. Infinite stall prevents the game from continuing.

Also, if there weren't any time limits, I think that ledgecamping would still be viable, because if you're patient than you just make them annoyed enough to try and progress with the game. Tactics that allowed for inifinate stalling in melee were banned, and likewise they should in brawl as well.

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

Yoshi has a 0 to 999% grab release on Wario.

and it gets gayer

 

[Leh]

You don't throw them from the cargo. You drop them. DK can then buffer a grab (similar to how Wario buffers his d-throw chains on a few characters), and there isn't much Wario can do offensively unless he has a fart charged.

It's not 100%, but it is reliable enough to get them to the edge.

I know, rofl, i just tested this, and theres no way this works, Wario not only gets out quicker but can MOVE after instantly being released so that the DK would have to guess....

 

[TheReflexWonder]

At the least, Wario has the best "don't get grabbed" game, I think, due to his aerial mobility. Yoshi and Zelda really shouldn't be grabbing a smart Wario at all.

Also, edgecamping is the only thing that gets me genuinely angry about Brawl. I find myself going out of my way to tell my opponent how unsatisfied I am. I should test an edgecamp counter sometime to help myself out.

 

[Leh]

Yoshi has a 0 to 999% grab release on Wario.

Easily avoidable, yoshi cant even shield grab well.
I've played Bens (Eight 52)yoshi enough to know its not that bad.
Plus ban on FD and play on platforms.

 

[Leh]

I know, rofl, i just tested this, and theres no way this works, Wario not only gets out quicker but can MOVE after instantly being released so that the DK would have to guess....

I went even further with my testing, i slowed it down to 1/4 on training and tried this, its nto even CLOSE, like no where NEAR close to even a infinite or a chain grab or ANYTHING.

 

[Master Raven]

Ironically enough, Wario has a CG on DK that can work up to ~120% I think.

... God**** what's with all the gay grab (release) infinites spawning up in this game?

 

[Fenrir VII]

This thread went from edgecamping to Wario and his weaknesses really quickly... like wow...

 

[TheReflexWonder]

This thread went from edgecamping to Wario and his weaknesses really quickly... like wow...

Wario's just that **** raw.

Otherwise, would edgecamping really be any better/worse than it was in Melee? Granted, I felt so helpless when a Ganon grabbed the edge after I lost a stock in Melee, but...MK has the scary Shuttle Loop, but there's still time to grab the ledge. If he does it higher, then give chase and F-Air or something.

 

[Leh]

Ironically enough, Wario has a CG on DK that can work up to ~120% I think.

... God**** what's with all the gay grab (release) infinites spawning up in this game?

yep also true.
I agree with Fenrir, Wario is amazing i will work through all these gay grab bull**** things and own.

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

GL, looks like i can finally use marth against you and not feel like i'm at a disadvantage the whole match

 

[Fenrir VII]

Worse than Melee or better?

Well, honestly, I'd put it somewhere in the middle... probably worse in Brawl, though....since the disjointed sword character also has a lot of jumps. lol

This really isn't all that new, though. It just hasn't been broken before... or spammed.

I do believe that there are ways to just...beat it. Certainly, it's harder for most characters than I would think...I play Fox, who has quite a few options regarding it...so I'm somewhat biased in that way.

But being creative with it leads to decent things you can do to the MK.

I will never argue the stated fact that edgecamping gives the camper the advantage here. it does...

and nationally, I would support a ban... I don't really like the ideas I'm hearing as to how to enfe it, but yeah...

I just don't want to be the only ones who do...only to go to OOS tourneys and get owned by it. you know?

I guess Seibrik and I have the same opinion, just on opposite sides of the spectrum... Again, I really have no problems dealing with it, but I can understand those who do. so yeah.

and yeah, Wario's raw.

 

[Samus_ABe]

this thread is ********...lol edge camping who cares seibrik you beat me everytime by chain grabbing me and grab releasing me to death its like the most uber cheap thing ever...so dont complain about someone camping the edge there are things u can do to punish it(with wario at least u can) but cmon man u cant complain about something cheap when u play even cheaper yourself..

and yah wario is raw as fvck the most underesimated in the game besides luigi who i just picked up cause hes crazy good...no more dedede vs. wario tho its completely IC or meta from here on out so i can actually place like i should

 

[Dogysamich]

needs mo' six-PAWNCH!!

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

I like how this thread started yesterday and already has 8 pages....Anyway

As a Mario Main the ledge is pretty much the only safe place I have during a few match-ups...I can fight on the stage I'd just much rather not get caught an infinite or anything else that can kick my **** in...

you shouldn't worry bout that.


soon im gonna make a general rules list, or a suggested rules list for, hopefully, all FL tournies. nothing mandatory but i think it'll be a good guide.

One rule of which would be the ban of standing and step foward infinites.

 

[Leh]

GL, looks like i can finally use marth against you and not feel like i'm at a disadvantage the whole match

even though marth vs snake is even or you go Snake vs me. I think wario is a good main.

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

even though marth vs snake is even or you go Snake vs me. I think wario is a good main.

both u and me know that that match isn't even, you kill me at 100% solid, and i have to struggle to kill you at 130 >.<

 

[Leh]

Yeah but you're wearing a tiara, so its even.

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

Yeah but you're wearing a tiara, so its even.

Dammit, you got me there...dead even...Did you know that marth takes off his tiara during his final smash and hits you with it?? thats why you die in one hit

 

[~^.NoiR.^~]

You guys should go with my rules that I came up with months ago. This isn't a new idea in GA. Levels should all be neutral, that way all games won, are based on the most skill possible, not advantage. Obvious ledge camping is banned. I think it would be good to ban MK because he has an obvious advantage over the rest of the cast. Then the rest of the common rules go as is. That's just my idea of bringing out the most fair skill possible in Brawl.

 

[Blatt Blvd]

All this talk of infinites and ledge stalling can all be prevented in two ways.

One is don't get grabbed.

Two is don't let the MK, Pit, ect, get a stock/percent lead.

See how that goes, LOL.

 

[Blatt Blvd]

Oh and retro gammer eat my a$$hole fvckwad.

 

[PK-ow!]

This needs to fall under stalling. We need a clear, consistently applicable definition for stalling, that will get this kind of 'ledgecamping'.

I am absolutely against banning this as its own category. Running to the edge for respawn invincibility, that's allowed right? What about shooting arrows from the ledge?

Going to the ledge, to use the game rules to get invincibility between attacks, is just part of this game. This is a factor where it's either play the game or abandon it; you can't ban this. Yes, going to the ledge and doing nothing, this is not bringing the game towards its end; this is avoiding defeat, playing the clock. But if your use (and reuse) of the ledge is punctuated with aggressive action - action taken to damage, to disrupt, or to pressure/cause mistakes - then it cannot be faulted.

It's a fine line, but if MK is using the Tornado to *cause damage* and then fleeing to the ledge, that is simply a tactic. But if MK is hiding on the ledge until the opponent comes for him, that's stalling.

If he is forced to try to bring the game to a close, then he will be forced to at some point come up - even if that means with the Tornado - but being forced to come up means the other guy can react, instead of having to act.

*~*~*~

I'm curious, why can't the Wolf descend on ledgecamping MK with invincibility from reflector? Does MK just always time the Tornado response correctly?

Spoiler

Also, ban MK lololololololololololololololololol

 

[Advent Lee]

I want to play Diddy King now.

Was that because of my new combo video??



-advent-

 

[mkGmoney]

You guys are silly.