A New Rule To Think About: Grab Infinites *Ledge Stall Update*

[MusicalMike]

Counterpick them with Castle Siege/Delfino.

Edit- I'm just kidding, lol

 

[mkGmoney]

You guys know that the top 4 at last Gigs don't even camp the ledge, right?

Quit whining.

 

[Advent Lee]

Not true. What we would have is a complete stallout. Without time you don't have to approach. There'd be no motivation to just sit there, as the match would just drag on eternally. However I do understand your point. The problem is they could just sit there forever, until someone passes out from boredom LOL. You'd have to question the motivations of the players in that case. I do get your point entirely, but at the same time would the MK player really have the motivation to go to the edge then without time. Somehow I doubt it. Meh, I see it both ways. Yeah, you're right.

Yea I see what your saying about the stallout thing too, but remember if there at a stale mate then the planker (who will be winning in percent) can just call a judge over and tell them that they have to approach. And we know what will happen to most of the cast if they approach a planking ledge camper like MK.

At which point I would just laugh and say "checkmate" becuz a planker just beat me or anyone by camping the ledge and calling a judge over forcing ME to approach lolz. Check and mate.



-advent-

 

[Equi]

Yea I see what your saying about the stallout thing too, but remember if there at a stale mate then the planker (who will be winning in percent) can just call a judge over and tell them that they have to approach. And we know what will happen to most of the cast if they approach a planking ledge camper like MK.

At which point I would just laugh and say "checkmate" becuz a planker just beat me or anyone by camping the ledge and calling a judge over forcing ME to approach lolz. Check and mate.



-advent-

Or, both players sit there on the edges forever. Until the tournament director walks by and threatens that the ledge camper (the concept of ledge camping without time is ridiculous and I don't see it happening anyway) move onto the stage or else he's DQ'd. That simple.

 

[Advent Lee]

Or, both players sit there on the edges forever. Until the tournament director walks by and threatens that the ledge camper (the concept of ledge camping without time is ridiculous and I don't see it happening anyway) move onto the stage or else he's DQ'd. That simple.

That is a possibility and I hope that is what really happens.



-advent-

 

[OTRU...]

hahaha ban mk, ban ledge camping, ban sidesteps, ban chaingrab, ban rolling, BAN BRAWL lmao

that seems to be the chain of banning that brawl is undertaking lolz, soon enough u guys are barely gonna have a game left if u keep thinking about doing bans...

10tru's

 

[Master Raven]

Brawl's a mess.

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

As far as banning infinite grabs, i've been saying that since i've found out about them.
a DDD player.

for the ledge camping, the person who first brought it up, was C.Doc. Danny,
a pit player.

its not about how the top winners of each tourny went to get to their placing. the people that have the capability to do these strats can't stand it, understand the potential and can see doing the same strat 3 years from now and still having the exact same effectiveness, with just as little risk and just as high reward.

If/when i host my next tourny, im going to be following the strictest rules i can come up with, most fair of course, and i would like to see how MATCHES get played out. im not so interested in changing the results, i wana see how matches go.

wen people aren't getting infinited, or ledge camped, we start seeing more rock/paper/siscors, more adaption, more learning, and most importantly, boosts in the meta game much quicker.

one example i think of, how long did Rx- go just tornadoing. he did good, we sucked vs it ok.

that inspired more and more metas to metaspam shamelessly. thats fine to. but then what happened when some top players played vs GOOD metas that did all his other ****? no one was prepared. we weren't up to meta game.

if in most places, ledge camping is either banned, or just doesnt happen, why continue ledge camping in FL? why not catch up with the others and continue on the meta game the rest of the country is going to follow?
we dont want them comming to FL and owning us on the stage cuz all we know how to do is ledgecamp, or us going there and having the same things.

FL as a state will progress much better and faster when things like infinites, and ledgecamps are taken out of the equation.


i duno what else i can say at the moment.

I dont want anyone who did well this passed gigs to think that they had some hand in pushing this. None of you have anything to do with that and you've all earned your placings very well.
We've been discussing this for a long time, and it wasn't till we were all knocked out at Gigs (me,danny,fro) did we get any chance to reflect and try to solve this conundrum.

So, good **** to gigs winners.

Lets get this mess sorted out so we can become a noteable state amoung men.
To FLORIDA!

 

[Leh]

I agree with seibrik, mainly on the reasoning that florida probably is behind in the metagame (with the exception of only our top players). Anything we can do to catch up should be accepted...

 

[Advent Lee]

I agree with seibrik, mainly on the reasoning that florida probably is behind in the metagame (with the exception of only our top players). Anything we can do to catch up should be accepted...

A-Fukkin-Men !! Until then I'ma just review my chops training lolz.



-advent-

 

[Cloudstealth]

The matches at the next few tournies with those strict rules, will really show where our metagame is at. It's about time for FL to catch up.

 

[Blatt Blvd]

I definitely didnt say both games are equally balanced, and you definitely contradicted yourself.

Yes you did and no I didn't.

LOL

Incredible logic. Well thought out, and explained thoroughly.

And the metagame won't evolve if everyone just figures it out and plays like plank, either.

My point is, play the game and quit *****ing.

If it's that easy to be gay with MK, then use MK.

I don't think MK should be banned and I don't think ledge stalling should be banned.

Sarcasm.

Once again, crazy stuff happens in fighting games.

Deal with it.

Play the game(as MK) and stop *****ing, Brawl community.

 

[mkGmoney]

I don't understand this logic of being behind because we don't ban stupid (and easy) strategies. If we can't get used to (and beat or figure out) stupid strategies like this in FL then how are we going to fight against good and legit strategies out-of-state? Who's to say we won't get rocked by these stupid strategies or others (due to our ignorance of them) that you want to ban when we do go out-of-state?

Melee had many infinities as well as stupid strategies and they just (and still do) deal with them in very simple ways... don't get hit or grabbed or put in that situation...

 

[CO18]

Yes you did and no I didn't.



My point is, play the game and quit *****ing.

If it's that easy to be gay with MK, then use MK.

I don't think MK should be banned and I don't think ledge stalling should be banned.

Sarcasm.

Once again, crazy stuff happens in fighting games.

Deal with it.

Play the game(as MK) and stop *****ing, Brawl community.

You are an idiot.

 

[Equi]

Yes you did and no I didn't.



My point is, play the game and quit *****ing.

If it's that easy to be gay with MK, then use MK.

I don't think MK should be banned and I don't think ledge stalling should be banned.

Sarcasm.

Once again, crazy stuff happens in fighting games.

Deal with it.

Play the game(as MK) and stop *****ing, Brawl community.

Congratulations. You have not responded to a single of our points or comprehended the general premise of the thread. FL is in no way even considering banning MK as of now, what are you even talking about? Read before you post, or no one is going to take you seriously.

 

[Blatt Blvd]

LOL, ok.

When I see you at gigs be ready for me to beat your a$$ you fvck.

I leave the boards for 3 months because of what ******* the Brawl community as a whole is.

"Wah, ban this, ban that".

Why not just ban everything except dittos.

This way, when Equi or Afro loses a match, no one freaks out and makes threads about banning a stage, character, tactic.

Remember when everyone wanted Luigi's Mansion on?

If this gets banned, then the Brawl community has no hope.

 

[Leh]

I don't understand this logic of being behind because we don't ban stupid (and easy) strategies. If we can't get used to (and beat or figure out) stupid strategies like this in FL then how are we going to fight against good and legit strategies out-of-state? Who's to say we won't get rocked by these stupid strategies or others (due to our ignorance of them) that you want to ban when we do go out-of-state?

Melee had many infinities as well as stupid strategies and they just (and still do) deal with them in very simple ways... don't get hit or grabbed or put in that situation...

You make a good point, but this is also banned in other areas and may become something that is banned in almost all areas.

 

[Leh]

LOL, ok.

When I see you at gigs be ready for me to beat your a$$ you fvck.

I leave the boards for 3 months because of what ******* the Brawl community as a whole is.

"Wah, ban this, ban that".

Why not just ban everything except dittos.

This way, when Equi or Afro loses a match, no one freaks out and makes threads about banning a stage, character, tactic.

Remember when everyone wanted Luigi's Mansion on?

If this gets banned, then the Brawl community has no hope.

none of us got knocked out to this tactic...rofl....
We are doing for the people who DID get knocked by this tactic, and will be knocked out by it in the future.

 

[Plairnkk]

edgecamping is only effective vs a very select few characters, most characters get around it well

i just do it vs falco, hes annoying

 

[Blatt Blvd]

You guys are idiots, seriously.

I'm not kidding.

Once again, post after post, I hate these fourms(and the community) once again.

Learn to comprehend plz(and spell?).

 

[CO18]

edgecamping is only effective vs a very select few characters, most characters get around it well

i just do it vs falco, hes annoying

mhmm ur the reason everyone wants this banned in the first place

 

[Dreadz18x]

****... do wutever da **** yall want i jus want da brawl metagame to grow..

whether it be to ban metaknight//edge camping so ppl can learn to play against other char. and learn matchups and adapt or wutever

or not ban anything and keep gettin ***** till we figure how to counter it..

i jus wanna get better **** da bull****

 

[Blatt Blvd]

Let's just ban everything that's "scary".

How does that sound Florida?

LOL, the amout of hate towards one person who doesn't agree with a ******** view.

You guys are funny.

Does anyone know who I am yet?

 

[Equi]

edgecamping is only effective vs a very select few characters, most characters get around it well

i just do it vs falco, hes annoying

Ah. Plank has spoken.

Out of curiousity, have you tried it and effectively used it against Wolf?

 

[Equi]

Let's just ban everything that's "scary".

How does that sound Florida?

LOL, the amout of hate towards one person who doesn't agree with a ******** view.

You guys are funny.

Does anyone know who I am yet?

You remind me of Doodah. And if you are, then you're a genius.

 

[mkGmoney]

Does anyone know who I am yet?

doodah?

 

[Tommy_G]

I don't know why all of you guys continue listening to Blatt. He has obviously already showed how much of an idiot/smash scrub he is. I bet he doesn't know that ledge camping could have been done in Melee too. There's about a 10 frame period for mess up for sheik and jiggly to ledge camp in Melee and be unpunishable.

How about this for a rule:

If you think someone is camping then you can run past half of the stage(cross the plane of half stage) and say something when you do so. After you call it, the opponent can only grab the ledge 5 times before they must land on the stage across the plane of the ledge(ex. they can't land on Smashville's platform behind the ledge to refresh their ledge grabs.) After they call the 'crossing half point line' then they are free to either go back across this line with the counting still in effect or stay on the other side of the stage. This way people can't get pressured into losing a stock because they can't get back up, and it stops people from ledge camping as much.

 

[nevershootme]

You remind me of Doodah. And if you are, then you're a genius.

it is doodah since last username had yoshi as a character. and he mentions being 3 months out of boards

 

[Anomic_Punk]

If that's what it comes down to.

I understand you're mad about it.

How do you think fox players felt when Ken came into the Melee scene and would get one grab and end that stock?

I think the main difference between Marth chaingrabbing Fox to death in melee, and ledgecamping in brawl, is the fact that one takes SKILL, while the other takes mainly patience and perhaps some ability to react.

Its not like brawl is fast paced
Its not like you can't see your opponent running across the stage toward the ledge


The fact that you COMPLETELY lose your ledge invincibility as soon as you let go of it, and the fact that it doesn't last long enough to edgehog characters with multiple jumps, makes it nearly impossible to overcome the skill-less tactic of ledgecamping someone in order to time out the match.

Point being:
1. It takes little to no skill to camp the ledge in brawl
2. It is difficult approaching impossible to steal the ledge from said camper
3. The better characters can stagespike you/escape to another ledge if you even TRY to steal the ledge.

The only way to overcome this tactic is to get the first hit, and counter-camp.
With certain characters vs. Metaknight, that may not even be feasible.

How sad that the metagame has broken down so far already.

I prefer melee, anyways.

 

[Blatt Blvd]

Doodah?

LOL.

Yeah right.

Also, Co18, call me an idiot in person you fvck.

I already know you're most likey a fat nerd.

So hopefully I goto a tourney you goto.

Also, yeah this ledge **** is ****ed up, but it doesn't warrant a ban, doods.

Not yet anyway.

 

[Equi]

It's official. I just got sucked into a false troll identity of my good old pal Doodah.

Boy do I feel owned.

XD

 

[Plairnkk]

Ah. Plank has spoken.

Out of curiousity, have you tried it and effectively used it against Wolf?

I haven't actually. I've never had any issues at all with wolf, he's a really easy matchup for Meta. I just hate fighting falco and have problems with it, so I exploit his weakness by staying on the ledge. Falcos whole game=camping with lasers and chaingrabs, and he can't do either when someone else is on the ledge. Wolf is really easy to rush down in my opinion, and i prefer playing that way

 

[Kagesekan]

It's also impossible for a large percentage of the cast to avoid chaingrabbing and being gimped by MK... but those things aren't banned. Infinites also make other certain matchups (DK/DDD, Wario/DDD, Ness/Marth) difficult or impossible. So imo banning ledgestalling just for the reason that it makes a large amount of characters unplayable isn't justified, but if it is banned then a bunch of other things like infinites also need to be banned because they'd better "balance" the game. Just my opinion...

1. I agree with Masky. Seibrik vs. Gmoney was gay as hell. Chaingrab >>> grab release >>> dair/usmash. Nothing Wario can do. I'd say that's gayer than ledge stalling.

2. I also agree with the distinction between ledge stalling and ledge camping, though that would be REALLY hard to distinguish. In a way, ROB's ledge camp is also a stall at the same time because it's so good. Lasers, gyros, fairs, uairs, and auto-sweetspot upb = extremely hard to approach.

3. M2K already made a thread about this. he was flamed and the thread got locked. One of two things is going to happen: it gets banned and a lot of people get DQ'd when they aren't trying to stall, resulting in lowered tournament attendance OR it doesn't get banned and a handful of people who really can't stand it quit Brawl and start playing a good game.

MY suggestion is this: man up. If you're a high level player then don't pull any gay ****. No infinites, no stalling, no gamebreaking exploits. Don't do it because you'll get DQ'd, do it because you're better than that. If you're not a high level player, do what you will and watch yourself get wrecked anyways.
I'm not saying that Seibrik should never chaingrab and I should never ledge camp and Afro should never dthrow on a platform or anything like that. I'm just saying that anybody with an ounce of respect for their opponent should at least make it a fight and not a screensaver.

^btw, not trying to put myself on Seibrik and Afro's level, I just haven't seen any other ROBs in a tournament yet.

So yeah. No official rules. We all know we're playing a garbage game. Deal with it and make some mutual agreements

 

[nevershootme]

I don't know why all of you guys continue listening to Blatt. He has obviously already showed how much of an idiot/smash scrub he is. I bet he doesn't know that ledge camping could have been done in Melee too. There's about a 10 frame period for mess up for sheik and jiggly to ledge camp in Melee and be unpunishable.

How about this for a rule:

If you think someone is camping then you can run past half of the stage(cross the plane of half stage) and say something when you do so. After you call it, the opponent can only grab the ledge 5 times before they must land on the stage across the plane of the ledge(ex. they can't land on Smashville's platform behind the ledge to refresh their ledge grabs.) After they call the 'crossing half point line' then they are free to either go back across this line with the counting still in effect or stay on the other side of the stage. This way people can't get pressured into losing a stock because they can't get back up, and it stops people from ledge camping as much.

points to friday at school when i was just sitting there across the other stage (as mk) when seibrik (g&w) was repeatly drop, neutral, jump and up-b and repeat... unfortunately people do not consider it stalling. even at times i just decide to drop in there to stop the silly edge play.

 

[Plairnkk]

So yeah. No official rules. We all know we're playing a garbage game. Deal with it and make some mutual agreements

qft. brawl ****ing sucks

 

[Blatt Blvd]

STFU Tommy G.

IDC bout Brawl you f@ggets LOL.

If you wanna ban ledge camping and hamper your "metagame" then so be it.

I just wanted to see who would call me names and the likes.

Eat **** Co18.

Soul Calibur is better than Brawl anywayz!

 

[Ruuku]

For more then 90% of the cast, it is IMPOSSIBLE to attack someone ledgecamping without putting yourself at a risk that will COST YOU YOUR STOCK.

So you're saying that over 30 characters aren't able to get around it? I'm gonna have to strongly disagree with you.

edgecamping is only effective vs a very select few characters, most characters get around it well

i just do it vs falco, hes annoying

I completely agree.

 

[Advent Lee]

edgecamping is only effective vs a very select few characters, most characters get around it well

i just do it vs falco, hes annoying

**** you gay azz mofo. You can suck a peanut gun and have that **** bust a nut in your mouth foo. F@ggot azz playstyle.

LoLz, lemme stop being black before I scare yall lolz. But seriously Equi is right you are the reason this is so massively disputed, there is even a term (planking) named after you. Hope you feel honored lolz.

Any ways regardless of what the little people think, the big people will ban this whether you guys like it or not. Thats just how it is. And other states/regions will catch on.



-advent-

 

[Plairnkk]

Well a falco who chaingrabs all match and shoots lasers all match even when they're losing should be called f@ggoting then. falco is gay

 

[Equi]

I see.

Well this sucks. Because I happen to main one of the characters that cannot punish the MK stall on the edge. Guess I'll have to use Snake/MK for that matchup and suck it up then.