A New Rule To Think About: Grab Infinites *Ledge Stall Update*

[TheReflexWonder]

I'd love to see you Brawltards play Melee for a couple months.

How about a couple years?

Were you even around for that?

 

[ranmaru]

HL2 is a shooting game and nobody good fights with guns

**** Halo. ;p

 

[Blatt Blvd]

How about a couple years?

Were you even around for that?

Yep.

MLG Orlando 05 was when my Melee Virginity was stripped away.

It was a horrible ride home that night.

Edit: I forgot I made a new account.

 

[Kagesekan]

**** Halo. ;p

HL = Half-life. I don't play Galo

 

[Raistlin]

It's **** like this that just proves how incredibly stupid Brawl is, I'm sorry. **** that game.

 

[Poltergust]

Um, I can still use Edge-Cancelled Eggs, right? I mean, it is a temporary ledge-stall... >.>

 

[harriettheguy]

Has mew2king said "tolja so, bro" yet?

 

[Pritch]

Yep.

MLG Orlando 05 was when my Melee Virginity was stripped away.

It was a horrible ride home that night.

Edit: I forgot I made a new account.

Man, I remember that ****. Pools were ****ing rough. You, me, Xif, and NBPMike all fighting for the 2nd place spot under kaiser was not cool.

 

[Master Raven]

Um, I can still use Edge-Cancelled Eggs, right? I mean, it is a temporary ledge-stall... >.>

That should be allowed, just as long as you don't do it for excessive periods of time.

 

[ranmaru]

hl = Half-life. I Don't Play Galo

Rofl. Because You Are Headcrab Zombie!!

 

[Kagesekan]

Rofl. Because You Are Headcrab Zombie!!

Today is a Good Day to do the Thing That Must Be Done By Meeee

 

[Blatt Blvd]

Man, I remember that ****. Pools were ****ing rough. You, me, Xif, and NBPMike all fighting for the 2nd place spot under kaiser was not cool.

NO, no, no my good ol Peach playing chap.

That was MLG Orlando 07 or 06 I think.

MLG 05 was when Cloud made a name for himself LOLOLOL.

(+10 cool points to anyone who gets that)

 

[Eight 52]

That should be allowed, just as long as you don't do it for excessive periods of time.

You can only do at the max 4 or 5.

 

[Blatt Blvd]

"Ledge stalling" shouldn't be banned because some characters have bad match ups vs characters that can "ledge stall" well.

There's like 40 characters in this game.

Now, if say, MetaKnight's "LS" **** made him impervious to all characters attacks(not just Wolf, Falco, ect) then it might warrant a ban or some rule.

And even if you're playing a bad character vs a LS character, don't let them get stock/percent lead.

Apparently people are already getting around it Stank says.

This isn't some SF2T Akuma air fire ball that completely breaks the game.

You guys are just mad cuz you lost some matches or are afraid you're going to.

 

[Fenrir VII]

NO, no, no my good ol Peach playing chap.

That was MLG Orlando 07 or 06 I think.

MLG 05 was when Cloud made a name for himself LOLOLOL.

(+10 cool points to anyone who gets that)

Cloud vs Husband was the most amazing thing ever... >.>


And also the Delaini vs Husband match pretty much changed my entire gaming life. haha

good times good times.

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

I agree with you doodah, i was merely seeing what the rest of the community thought about the tactic. I wana get everything cleared before i make a general rule set i hope people will follow to make the tournies as fun and as fair for all as possible.

Right now it's looking like the only thing i may actually legitimatelly ban is all kinds of infinites, excluding wall infinites (since on all allowed stages with walls, they're never there for very long/its pretty avoidable.

Like, all of DDD's Standing infinites/ Step Foward infinites. Including the one he has on himself. As well as any other characters grab release infinite on another character. This isn't to say that yoshi's grab release chaingrabs are banned. No those are perfectly fine, however the Zelda one and yoshi one on wario in place would be banned,
as well as the marth, or any other character one on lucas/ness.

I also believe that the ddd/luigi match should allow 3 standing regrabs, since ddd can't normally chaingrab luigi at all, it would simulate what a normal chaingrab would be. However i understand if people would disagree with this and say that ddd players should just live with the fact that luigi is an unchaingrabbable character.

I'll let the rest of you decide.

Im gonna update the first page with this rule to discuss next.
So yea, if theres anything regarding the rule anyone thinks i left out, or thinks it needs to be changed or not enforced at all, speak up.

For now though, im gonna have to say the ledge stalling tactic is a viable (though gay) tactic and shouldn't be banned.
Rather than calling a judge over if you feel like the person ur gonna play may ledge stall you, call a different character over if you feel your character has a major weakness to it, yes, that's what secondaries are for.

One reason i say this is cuz i know all the smart players are already looking to this, maybe they didn't realize they're doing it, maybe they did.
Equi hates ledge stalling and he happens to 2nd meta knight.
Tommy G plays falco, has nothing on ledge stalling, and he 2nds Kirby (you dont wana risk a single **** up when ledge stalling vs him, trust me)


So yea, either be smart and pick up another 2ndary, or be the first with your character to figure out how to get around it effectively and safely.

Case closed?

On to infinites.

 

[Blatt Blvd]

Chain grabs shouldn't be banned in smash.

Infinite chain grabs should only be allowed to kill percent.

Once again, some characters can be chain grabbed by certain characters and others can't.

Unless all characters get 0 to deathed cg easily by a certain character(most likely DDD), no ban.

A rule to a certain percent should definitely be put in place.

Also, can everyone grab release Ness/Lucas?

Cuz if not, then it shouldn't be banned either.

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

The DDD infinite is EXTREMLEY easy to do, any person can learn it in 5 minutes perfectly with Cstick set to grab its easy as hell, and anyone can do this and counterpick the **** out of 5 characters, without even actually playing ddd.

this makes it so that those 5 people dont wana main them anymore, and are forced to acually pick up a new main. Good characters like DK and bowser just become destroyed.
I say they can't ever main them cuz if somone calls a double blind pick and they're afraid they're gonna pick ddd, then they're forced to pick a different character or risk automatically losing.
When a person can pick his main, like at ALL, without worrying of an instant loss in the first match, then they can essentially never go that character in the first match.
It wouldn't be so bad if it were 1 matchup, but its 5.
and thats just ddd.

Zelda/yoshi can infinite wario the same, as marth (and others) can infinite lucas/ness.

I know for a fact that lucas can infinite himself and ness. bowser can, 99% sure ddd can grab release infinite as well. and others.
Not only that but whenever the marth sees fit, he gets a free sidesmash out of a grab release at any time, and its going to land, no hope for avoiding it.


Im not saying ban grab release attacks, but when a character can immobilize another character out of a grab, something that beats everything else (super armors attacks) the matchup is practically an impossibility, for something that takes literally like no skill to do.

 

[nevershootme]

and wat about yoshi for the infinite grab case... literally he can chain grab certain characters.

 

[Blatt Blvd]

Doesn't matter if it's easy as hell on just 5 characters.

I thought there was more(like 10 or 15 chars).

If it's only 5 then I see no problem here.

That just makes those characters unplayable vs DDD.

It's just character flaws.

Don't penalize the DDD player because someone picked DK instead of MK, Falco, or some other character that can't be cg.

The characters that can't be played Vs DDD(or Ness/Lucas, Yoshi/Zelda, w/e) can still be played against other characters.

Character triangles, yay!

 

[Frames]

gah MLG 05

everyone talked so much **** about FL it was disgusting, even azen was talking trash..

 

[Fenrir VII]

Yeah, basically it makes DDD a stupid counter against those characters... although, he could still cg all but 1 of them... so he still has a bit of an advantage on them.

I definitely would LIKE this type of tactic to be banned...just to make the game more char friendly...but I don't know about it either... I mean, wobbling was somewhat banned in Melee, and this can be counted as basically the same thing... so should there be a gentleman's rule about it? both players must agree?

At what point does this stop, though? Is Yoshi's release cg on Wario banned too? that would make sense..

Is pika's standing cg on Fox banned too? It's not infinite, but it goes long enough.



As for Lucas and Ness, it was debunked that almost all characters had a release cg on Ness and Lucas. Mart, Charizard, and Squirtle are the only ones where it is inescapable.


I'm a large fan of making people counterpick in Brawl... so basically, I'm against just banning these techniques... but also, I'm not against maybe a gentleman's rule being put into place

 

[Leh]

LOL that was actually really funny thanks for that im actually in a good mood going into work =)

and sry my opinion is ******** it must be teh weedz..last time i saw afro and hrnut play it was a snake ditto(which i didnt even know hrnut played snake) and hrnut won....once again sry for being ********

abe--out

Last time i played Hrnut in tourney (last 2 times actually) it was destruction.
Last snake ditto we had i 3 stocked him.


GET @ ME *****

 

[GDX]

Last time i played Hrnut in tourney (last 2 times actually) it was destruction.
Last snake ditto we had i 3 stocked him.


GET @ ME *****

****, really? wish i would've seen that. Id never let nick live it down

 

[Leh]

****, really? wish i would've seen that. Id never let nick live it down

Not the last gigs, the one before that.
Unless we played snake dittos at impact Clash, i still won but i dont remember the matches.

EDIT:
And lol at everyone ganging up on seibrik.

He said he was gonna go MK like the whole tourney.
W/e we will see whats up at GDX's tourney.

 

[GDX]

Not the last gigs, the one before that.
Unless we played snake dittos at impact Clash, i still won but i dont remember the matches.

actually, you did play snake dittos at impact clash II. i didnt watch them, but i dont remember either of those being a 3 stock. Clearly, the best match you two played was the ditto on 75mm which has graced youtube with its presence

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

the only time you three stocked me was at that gigs where danny won and i'm pretty sure that you know i wasn't trying...well i want to see you do that again if you really think i was trying...Don't forget i beat you twice in one tourney, the video of you three stocking me is on youtube, if u wanna be proud of it then so be it i can't blame you.

Oh and if seibrik said i'm going all MK then he should've stayed all mk, he counterpicked me with D3 best neutral FD(so manly), so i counterpicked his face off, tell him next time man up and i won't have to be a *****...if he goes all D3 then i got 2 characters waiting for him and it ain't snake and marth (even fights my ***)

 

[xYz]

lol, this is why I hate brawl singles...

everyone should just pick up poker.

 

[ranmaru]

Or Strip poker if you feel naughty. ;3

 

[GDX]

so much anger and aggression over 3 stocks

i got 3-stocked by rx on brinstar...it made me more sad than angry. Diddy was pretty upset that i embarassed him like that though.

 

[Gingerr]

As gay as some things like easily done chain grabs/infinites may be, that's what the game is, and I don't really think you should just go around banning things. I mean, if it's your tournament Seibrik (which is probably mostly what you're referring to since you mentioned it at Nexus last night) then obviously you can ban whatever you want/think is the gayest, but in general, everyone knows what playing Brawl entails, and everyones playing it regardless of bans on certain things. . .hell, people are already picking up secondaries to get around it, like you already said.

It may be ridiculous, it may be easy, but that's the game, and I guess you just have to play it the way it is. I see both sides of the argument and can agree with both sides of the argument. Guess we'll see what happens!

 

[Leh]

the only time you three stocked me was at that gigs where danny won and i'm pretty sure that you know i wasn't trying...well i want to see you do that again if you really think i was trying...Don't forget i beat you twice in one tourney, the video of you three stocking me is on youtube, if u wanna be proud of it then so be it i can't blame you.

Oh and if seibrik said i'm going all MK then he should've stayed all mk, he counterpicked me with D3 best neutral FD(so manly), so i counterpicked his face off, tell him next time man up and i won't have to be a *****...if he goes all D3 then i got 2 characters waiting for him and it ain't snake and marth (even fights my ***)

Alright well i wasnt trying either then if you werent trying.
And yeah you beat me twice in one tourney, i've still beaten you more and more tourneys...that all lead up to wins btw.

 

[Plairnkk]

the only tactics that should be banned are those that completely take character control out of the hands of the other player for an amount of time to be chosen solely by the player who is performing the tactic. This is why i was for banning wobbling in melee, and has been stated in the rules of smash for as long as i know (IC freeze glitch, wobbling was just an easier version of this). That being said ddds infinite really should be banned imo

also, yea seibrik i have a controller setting with grab set to cstick and i perfectly infinite everyone now, its too easy

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

it really is lol
theres no effort involved, just down, cstick, down cstick lol

i dont think CHAINGRABS should be banned, im saying that the STANDING in place infiinites should be.

Something like pika/fox no cuz it doesnt last forever, DI means something at higher %.

the yoshi chaingrabs should be good since they end at the end of the stage, except against characters like wario where he can do it standing still, and zelda, those should be banned IMO.


I am gonna implement these rules at my tournies, its just a shame others dont do the same, i think it would open the game up to alot more gay hating players

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I honestly think infinites shouldn't be taken out. They aren't really hard, and the ones that are easy are commonly known, and its pretty simple to just..choose another one out of 36 characters...

 

[complexity1234]

dedede infinities 5 characters..

marth infinities 2-3

iceclimbers can infinite everyone..

plus other random ones, like yoshi -> wario.

pika can chaingrab fox to 80 % every stock, which is practically an infinite :/

they are all lame, no matter if one is easy or hard to do, its the same ****

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Pika can only chaingrab to like...65 on fox, so don't blow it out of proportion.

 

[Kagesekan]

As gay as some things like easily done chain grabs/infinites may be, that's what the game is, and I don't really think you should just go around banning things. I mean, if it's your tournament Seibrik (which is probably mostly what you're referring to since you mentioned it at Nexus last night) then obviously you can ban whatever you want/think is the gayest, but in general, everyone knows what playing Brawl entails, and everyones playing it regardless of bans on certain things. . .hell, people are already picking up secondaries to get around it, like you already said.

It may be ridiculous, it may be easy, but that's the game, and I guess you just have to play it the way it is. I see both sides of the argument and can agree with both sides of the argument. Guess we'll see what happens!

QFT

hay gaiz i 3stocked gmoney

 

[petey_did_it]

have u guys ever seen monk ledge stall? if u play his ledge stall you will want a rule against it. its that stupid. luigi regrab thing is a bad idea in my opinion

 

[Leh]

Uh you main MK you shouldnt have a problem dealing with any ledge stalling.