A Guide to DI, Smash DI, C-stick DI, Teching and Crouch Cancelling --- Updated

[knightpraetor]

does regular DI take place along every second of the trajectory?

i dunno, it's just yesterday i was playing around with some things and it felt like most all of the trajectory influence on throws takes place at the begging of the throw and then after the apex of the trajectory.

For example if you don't di an upthrow immediately you get almost no horizontal DI and then once you hit the top if you're still holding it the horizontal di definitely changes the downwards arc a lot.

Am i wrong on this? I usually don't overthink things like this but now i'm curious. Does normal DI take place every second or just along the first few seconds after a throw, or maybe a decreased amount after the first part of the throw

or maybe i was just delusional and seeing things or confused as always

 

[K1T3]

Hmm. Any idea what happened here in this clip?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=AkHCoz5ML6o

It's from a few years ago, but I still don't have a definitive answer as to what exactly caused it. He didn't tech, didn't bounce off the stage, appeared to be stunned, continued to travel in the direction of the knockback (DIed towards the stage), but there wasn't really any knockback. He just kinda... fell.

The only thing that I can think of that makes sense is the invisible ceiling glitch... but I've seen that quite a lot and has always been related to hitting a shield and then counterattacking out of shield.


Actually, maybe he somehow got snagged on the wall without bouncing off of it which stalled for awhile then there wasn't nearly as much of the knockback left at that point. That'd be my best guess, but I'm not sure how that's possible from what I remember the stage walls looking like in AR.

I think I know what's going on here. You know how when you fall off a platform you're in the stun animation and can't tech, I think that somehow happened here but instead of falling off a platform he upB'd back on and falcon dair'd him and he was barely on the stage so he didn't get spiked but instead fell off the stage and was the in the stun animation and then died =)

 

[Thino]

I think I know what's going on here. You know how when you fall off a platform you're in the stun animation and can't tech, I think that somehow happened here but instead of falling off a platform he upB'd back on and falcon dair'd him and he was barely on the stage so he didn't get spiked but instead fell off the stage and was the in the stun animation and then died =)

this is tumbling
ganon coulnt tumble cuz he didnt reach the ledge , he was techin

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

it looked like he was glued to the side. I hazard a guess to say that he somehow bounced off the very inside tip of the edge and got hit sideways and kept all his momentum to the right. It's weird how the game transfers vertical to horizontal momentum, but that's happened to me before

i was playing ganon and a friend was CF on yoshi's story. I daired him and he DIed towards the stage. Hit the side of the stage and somehow got bounced perpendicular to the stage to the left and died off the side.

 

[Magus420]

i was playing ganon and a friend was CF on yoshi's story. I daired him and he DIed towards the stage. Hit the side of the stage and somehow got bounced perpendicular to the stage to the left and died off the side.

There's a small little indentation on the side of YS where the cloud comes out. It looks like:

|
]
|

If you bounce off the mini 'floor' in there you fly off to the side.

 

[SCOTU]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1029253528909539190&hl=en

Here's a clip on the weird ceiling tech> edgegrab i was talking about. Any clarification would be really cool. Thanks.

Sorry about the weird video clipping/ audio issues.

 

[Jihnsius]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1029253528909539190&hl=en

Here's a clip on the weird ceiling tech> edgegrab i was talking about. Any clarification would be really cool. Thanks.

Sorry about the weird video clipping/ audio issues.

Kind of hard to decipher, but what I believe happens is he ceiling techs and immediately starts to fall, and since he's falling right next to the ledge whilst facing it, it considers it a ledgegrab.

 

[Magus420]

Because the platform is so thin, you can tech off the underside of it and still have your ledgegrabbing box be over the top side of the platform for a short time before falling too far after the tech with some/most characters.

Each character has 2 ledge grab boxes. One in front and one in back which are both of equal size for that character. If your front ledge grab box overlaps the platform's ledge grab zone without your rear box overlapping you grab the ledge. Having the rear box connect prevents you from grabbing a ledge. The exception to this is on moves that allow you to grab ledges facing both ways (CF & Ganon's up-bs for example). This is how people get 'Battlefielded', since the stage allows you to get too far in which allows it to connect and you miss the ledge.

The side platforms of JJ are shaped like this:
___________
\__________/

The diagonal sides count as walls and would turn you around to face outward if teched on. You wouldn't be able to grab the ledge in this case. The straight underside counts as a ceiling, and does not affect the direction you are facing, and since the klap trap connected on the right side it turned Marth to face the right. After teching the ceiling he was still facing the right with the grab box overlapping. However, since the 2 grab boxes are split along the center of the character I would imagine that in order for the Marth to hit the ceiling and not the wall part a small amount of the rear box would still be overlapping the tip of the left edge. Since they were able to grab it, I'm pretty sure the Marth player began holding left at some point before they began to fall after the tech, which would be enough to clear the small amount of rear box off the ledge area and then grab it if the tech occurs close enough to edge of the ceiling.

 

[SCOTU]

Thanks Magus, that actually makes a lot of sense, and i was never sure about how that happened. Thanks for clearing that up. btw, i was the marth player, so it was really funny reading a post kinda talking to me, but addressed as if it were someone else.

 

[Doraki]

does regular DI take place along every second of the trajectory?

i dunno, it's just yesterday i was playing around with some things and it felt like most all of the trajectory influence on throws takes place at the begging of the throw and then after the apex of the trajectory.

For example if you don't di an upthrow immediately you get almost no horizontal DI and then once you hit the top if you're still holding it the horizontal di definitely changes the downwards arc a lot.

Am i wrong on this? I usually don't overthink things like this but now i'm curious. Does normal DI take place every second or just along the first few seconds after a throw, or maybe a decreased amount after the first part of the throw

or maybe i was just delusional and seeing things or confused as always

Normal DI is only when you start flying, and ONLY then.
When you start flying you can try to do whatever you want with your controller, nothing will happen until falco kills you, or (if you aren't playing against a falco) your stun ends, and then your character starts falling straight down, you can get out of the tumble animation or doublejump or use an attack or do anything you want, and also control your trajectory holding left or right on the control stick.
So yeah, there's all this time when you're stunned when you can't alter our trajectory at all.

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

which is why shffled first hit uairs in SSB64 with fox was an infinite.

 

[Thino]

doesnt need to be shffled to be infinite

 

[Impact009]

Introduction :In the Perfect Control Video, there is a clip where a Mario on Jungle Japes takes a Charge Shot from the left, use Smash DI on each frame of hitlag alternating between down-left and up-left, and finally Smash DIs up into a ceiling and wall-tech-jumps there.

If that was done for every frame of the hitstun, wouldn't he be just going down and up the whole time, or is only the last input within that frame read? What I'm asking is, why wouldn't it be better to just smash left through all 18 frames instead of using quarter-circle movements?

I'm assuming that the inputs were 214, 874 repeated, and not just down, left, up, left.

 

[Fox128]

@Impact: What he was doing, was using diagonal SDIs. You can't press left in all 18 frames, because if you press left in one frame and left again in the following frame, it obviously reads it as HOLDING left, which doesn't help multiple SDIing at all. If you want to use left inputs, you'd have to re-position the stick to neutral before you can SDI left left again: Like this: l-n-l-n-l-n-l-...
Therefore, diagonally "quartercycle" SDIing every frame is much faster... I think 1.4142 times faster.

 

[ConnorTheKid]

I know this is a stupid question, but am I supposed to hold up on the cstick and DI towards the stage with the control stick? Is up/up right or left the best direction to hold while recovering?

 

[red stone]

say i'm hit vertically upwards. what kind of quarter circle DI would i use if i want to go right and keep low as to not die?

i'm hit horizontally to the right, what's the best way to DI back?

 

[Thino]

I know this is a stupid question, but am I supposed to hold up on the cstick and DI towards the stage with the control stick? Is up/up right or left the best direction to hold while recovering?

if you're recovering from the left , DI up-right so you can ledgetech a nasty dsmash

say i'm hit vertically upwards. what kind of quarter circle DI would i use if i want to go right and keep low as to not die?

i'm hit horizontally to the right, what's the best way to DI back?

for the first up-right/down-right
in any case the best direction to DI to is perpendicular to you trajectory

 

[red stone]

so you're saying forget the quarter circle and just go for perpendicular trajectory?

 

[Thino]

if we take peachs fthrow toward right as an example , you should quarter circle DI up/left/up/left but personally i prefer goin diagonally up-left

 

[red stone]

the easy way isn't always the best way

 

[ConnorTheKid]

if you're recovering from the left , DI up-right so you can ledgetech a nasty dsmash

would the cstick help at all? and if it does, should I just hold up with it at all times while recovering?

 

[petre]

pressing the cstick up will give you a little ASDI upwards when youre hit by the edgeguarder, so it could be helpful. but you dont want to accidentally use a uair.

 

[SCOTU]

If you're already holding Up-Right, (and assuming that's the direction of the stage), the cstick is kind of superfluous, as the control stick will already be giving you an up-rightward asdi. If you wanted to ASDI in a different direction than your normal DI, or were trying to SDI (in case you're too late, so you won't get the asdi off of holding the control stick), it's advantageous to use the cstick.

 

[Junpappy]

Cstick ASDI only works in cardinal directions so it wouldn't work if it was Up-Right anyways.

 

[4 Aces]

Is Cstick SDI cardinal as well? What's the difference when performing SDI and ASDI? Is one smashed and the other held in a position?

When DI'ing, is the angle of change more drastic if the control sick was EXACTLY perpendicular? When DI'ing, does the distance of trajectory increase in any way? If so, why and how? When DI'ing, does tilting/smashing have any effect on trajectory and distance?

DI-related material can get very confusing.

 

[SCOTU]

Is Cstick SDI cardinal as well? What's the difference when performing SDI and ASDI? Is one smashed and the other held in a position?

When DI'ing, is the angle of change more drastic if the control sick was EXACTLY perpendicular? When DI'ing, does the distance of trajectory increase in any way? If so, why and how? When DI'ing, does tilting/smashing have any effect on trajectory and distance?

DI-related material can get very confusing.

You can't SDI with the cstick

SDI is the stick moved during hitlag. ASDI is based on where it (or the cstick) is at the last frame of hitlag

DI only changes the angle at which you're sent, not the knockback, so perpendicular DI is the most impactual.

Normal DI is only based on the control stick's position at the end of hitlag. having it tilted not all the way works for "1/2 DI" or "partial DI". But smashing it doesn't affect normal DI.

I believe all of these questions are answered in his guide....

 

[brawlpro]

noice job, props to doraki for makin this.

props to oskurito fo givin me the link to this

 

[jacobrhcp]

wooh nice!!

 

[otg]

Love this guide. Incredibly useful, as a Doc main, you need to DI as much possible to keep your a** alive lol.

 

[AlcyoNite]

few questions:

so, with smash di, if i were hit on the stage with mario's fsmash (i should go flying leftward) and i sdi'ed cardinally to the right, would i be sent rightward, or am i totally missing what sdi is?

with ledgeteching, how does asdi into the stage affect when i should press r? (or does it?)

EDIT: also gives props to oskurito for linking this legendary thread

 

[AlcyoNite]

bump for an answer?

 

[4 Aces]

few questions:

so, with smash di, if i were hit on the stage with mario's fsmash (i should go flying leftward) and i sdi'ed cardinally to the right, would i be sent rightward, or am i totally missing what sdi is?

with ledgeteching, how does asdi into the stage affect when i should press r? (or does it?)

EDIT: also gives props to oskurito for linking this legendary thread

Yeah, that's basically it...I've never done it, at least not to my knowledge, so I don't know exactly how it looks like. Watch Perfect Control, where Mario gets blasted by Samus's charged shot yet lives. That's sorta how it should look like.

From what I can tell, asdi'ing into the stage makes you move to that spot a little quicker (I'm not really certain about this. I just know that it helps ledgetech by moving you close enough to do it), so you can hit r earlier (or get close enough to tech in general).

 

[darkatma]

few questions:

so, with smash di, if i were hit on the stage with mario's fsmash (i should go flying leftward) and i sdi'ed cardinally to the right, would i be sent rightward, or am i totally missing what sdi is?

with ledgeteching, how does asdi into the stage affect when i should press r? (or does it?)

EDIT: also gives props to oskurito for linking this legendary thread

Smash DI can only move you very slightly during the hitstun, and i doubt you'd be able to be sent rightward, unless you move to the opposite end of the hitbox. If you don't smash DI that far, then you're still sent to the left.

am example of smash DI in action can be seen in the Oc2 regional crews i believe, where the japanese sheiks use amazing SDI to get away during fox's drill to avoid the shine.

 

[Doraki]

unless you move to the opposite end of the hitbox.

it doesn't work that way, you don't change the way you'll be sent by smash DIing around the hitbox, and SDIing completely off the hitbox doesn't prevent you from flying either.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Falcon Punch!!!!!!!

Bumps amazing thread to top.

 

[RAWRimmacheetah]

*head explodes*
**** all this information >_>
useful guide but now my head hurts V-V

 

[Linkster47]

Nice post, it really helped me understand ASDI.

 

[king_NDj247]

sick man where did u get all this information my smash game improved bare coz of this thanks i've been doing it 4 age but never knew wat it was called

 

[Dark Sonic]

This really should be stickied.
Bump to top.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Obvioulsy not enough people are reading this, so I'm going to have to bump this.