A Guide to DI, Smash DI, C-stick DI, Teching and Crouch Cancelling --- Updated

[Sefe]

DANG Helps ALOT espically now cus I have a tournament in 3 weeks and Sintenal is going to be in it!

 

[jamminjohn]

This is amazing! I'm gonna start practicing this.

 

[Enigmatics]

Thanks for the guide, and is there any way to practice this by yourself?

 

[itsneverfair]

sry, i know you've been asked this a million times but say i hold the left direction with control stick b4 hit and then get hit, does it count as smash DI or do i have to move the control stick after getting hit to implement smash DI? also, for multiple smash DI do you have to return control stick to the origin b4 smashing it a direction again or can you just go from upleft to down left?

also the ASDI only acts for one frame? and you dont' have to smash it, just moves a little in the direction you hold c-stick or control stick?

and DI does not slow you down if you hold right when being hit to left? it is better to DI up?

 

[Corigames]

Nice.

I have a question though. Is there a big dofference between R and L? I know that it is called L-canceling and that R works too, so is that true for anything R/L?

 

[Doraki]

L-cancel stands for Lag-cancelling ; there's absolutely no difference between L and R in the game.

thanks banks I totally didn't notice I wrote that.

 

[Banks]

just say it stands for lag cancelling v_v

 

[itsneverfair]

doraki you might've missed my earlier post so i'll repost

sry, i know you've been asked this a million times but say i hold the left direction with control stick b4 hit and then get hit, does it count as smash DI or do i have to move the control stick after getting hit to implement smash DI? also, for multiple smash DI do you have to return control stick to the origin b4 smashing it a direction again or can you just go from upleft to down left?

also the ASDI only acts for one frame? and you dont' have to smash it, just moves a little in the direction you hold c-stick or control stick?

and DI does not slow you down if you hold right when being hit to left?it can only affect trajectory and not speed at which the char. flies?

 

[Doraki]

I didn't miss it it's just that the other one was easier to answer and that I've been asked this a million times.
For a smash DI you need to smash the control stick during the hitlag, so if you're holding it before you're hit, you won't do a smash DI

For multiple smash DI it's not necessary (fotunately) to return the stick to the neutral position, instead you can rotate the stick, or go straight from 1 diagonal to another, that'll do several smash DI

ASDI is only on 1 frame, yes, you input it the same way as you input normal DI.
If you're DIing you're also ASDIing.

I don't think DI ever slow you down, whereas crouch cancelling does just that.

 

[itsneverfair]

thx, btw, forgot to mention what an awesome thread this is, good job!!

 

[Vegard]

L-cancel doesn't actually stand for lag cancel, does it? In SSB it was named z-cancelling, because you used the z-button to cancel aerials. It goes the same way for SSBM. Every cancel is to cancel lag, so "lag cancel" could also have been like a meteor cancel or something.

 

[itsneverfair]

during hitlag are you technically in the air? so if you press L right before getting hit by say a marth's fsmash you would have to press down during hitlag to be able to tech roll it after the hitlag ends?

 

[TrageÐy ®]

Pretty Nice!
All my doubts have been answered, lol

 

[Jihnsius]

Something else that should be clarified: The 'c' in C-Stick stands for 'control.' The left stick is the 'analog stick.'

... Or at least I think. It would make sense, and having it clarified would save a lot of confusion.

Great guide, by the way.

 

[buddy9246]

How Smash DI helps edge teching :

When you get hit near the edge, for example by Marth's f-smash, your trajectory don't send you into the wall at all.
At middle %, a simple ASDI towards the stage will make you hit the wall, as long as you aren't sent away too fast. It works just like how ASDIing down makes you stay grounded .

However, at higher %age, this won't be enough. Moreover, the more damage you get from the hit, the longer you'll stay in hitlag before you tech, which means a more difficult timing for pressing L, because those hitlag frames are removed from the 20 frames window for the tech.

Now, if you learn to press L and do a Smash DI around 15-20 frames later, the tech will be guaranteed :
Instead of waiting for hitlag to end and use ASDI to touch the wall, the hitlag will transfer into teching the moment you did the smash DI.
This is very easy : Press L, then slam the stick towards the stage. Regardless of what your opponent is doing, it'll most likely work.

As to what happens afterwards, the moment when you tech doesn't matter, everything will be as if you only teched at the end of the hitlag : you will start moving again at the end of the hitlag and you'll still have invincibility frames then.
I think that using smash DI also makes wall-jumping easier since you have more time (the remaining hitlag frames) to press up on the control stick.

Can you explain this easier terms instead of ssbm terms please? because Im having problems understanding how fox survives falcos drill at around the time of 4:20:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0--XKpSBlLU

 

[Overswarm]

Something else that should be clarified: The 'c' in C-Stick stands for 'control.' The left stick is the 'analog stick.'

... Or at least I think. It would make sense, and having it clarified would save a lot of confusion.

Great guide, by the way.

The "C" in C-Stick stands for C.

There is a giant C engraved on the stick.

 

[Zankoku]

It actually stands for Camera. The C-Buttons were used to adjust the camera back in Super Mario 64, and the C-Stick zooms the camera in and out in single-player modes in SSBM.

 

[petre]

actually, i dont think it stands for anything. otherwise that would mean that A and B also stand for something. and X and Y and Z. they were just using the next letter in order.

 

[buddy9246]

How Smash DI helps edge teching :

When you get hit near the edge, for example by Marth's f-smash, your trajectory don't send you into the wall at all.
At middle %, a simple ASDI towards the stage will make you hit the wall, as long as you aren't sent away too fast. It works just like how ASDIing down makes you stay grounded .

However, at higher %age, this won't be enough. Moreover, the more damage you get from the hit, the longer you'll stay in hitlag before you tech, which means a more difficult timing for pressing L, because those hitlag frames are removed from the 20 frames window for the tech.

Now, if you learn to press L and do a Smash DI around 15-20 frames later, the tech will be guaranteed :
Instead of waiting for hitlag to end and use ASDI to touch the wall, the hitlag will transfer into teching the moment you did the smash DI.
This is very easy : Press L, then slam the stick towards the stage. Regardless of what your opponent is doing, it'll most likely work.

As to what happens afterwards, the moment when you tech doesn't matter, everything will be as if you only teched at the end of the hitlag : you will start moving again at the end of the hitlag and you'll still have invincibility frames then.
I think that using smash DI also makes wall-jumping easier since you have more time (the remaining hitlag frames) to press up on the control stick.

Can you explain this easier terms instead of ssbm terms please? because Im having problems understanding how fox survives falcos drill at around the time of 4:20:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=0--XKpSBlLU

 

[kerploplesteesh]

thanks for the info... it really helped me understand some things about teching and DI

 

[buddy9246]

Can someone please answer my question!

 

[K1T3]

Can someone please answer my question!

It isn't something that can be explained in non smash terms.
Fox up Bs. falco spikes. Fox tech jumps off the edge of the stage and up Bs again. Doraki has already explained how to do that specific tech. I suggest reading the first post to understand how the tech is done.

 

[MookieRah]

This was posted on page 8 by Doraki:

wiggling the stick while flying doesn't reduce your stun time

It also makes me sad, seeing as that was something everyone used to do and I had gotten accustomed to doing :-(. Anyways, as it has been said numerous times before, excellent thread, this clears EVERYTHING up.

 

[sagemoon]

It actually stands for Camera. The C-Buttons were used to adjust the camera back in Super Mario 64, and the C-Stick zooms the camera in and out in single-player modes in SSBM.

No.... The C-Stick is "control stick" as stated in the manuel. Not sure if you were being sarcastic or not though.

 

[buddy9246]

It isn't something that can be explained in non smash terms.
Fox up Bs. falco spikes. Fox tech jumps off the edge of the stage and up Bs again. Doraki has already explained how to do that specific tech. I suggest reading the first post to understand how the tech is done.

So Zelgadis just quickly Teched off the side wall and pressed ^B real fast? he has fast fingers! Did he need to DI to the right though to get to the wall?

 

[petre]

No.... The C-Stick is "control stick" as stated in the manuel. Not sure if you were being sarcastic or not though.

OH MY GOD. (this is one of my biggest pet peeves!)

this is the melee manual.



the GRAY ONE is the CONTROL STICK. the YELLOW ONE is the C STICK. please, for the love of god, get it straight people.

 

[K1T3]

So Zelgadis just quickly Teched off the side wall and pressed ^B real fast? he has fast fingers! Did he need to DI to the right though to get to the wall?

Yeah that's pretty much what he did. After he put in the up B and put in the direction for it to go he then either held in toward the ledge to ASDI into the wall and pressed L/R somewhere in the 20 frame window before the hit then held up to tech jump and up Bs again.. this or he SDIed which is normally better to do into the wall smashing the stick toward the ledge during the hitlag frames of the spike. of course you would probably still ASDI by holding the C stick in as well just incase you miss the SDI with the normal stick. So yes you have to DI to the right.

Mookie the wiggling doesn't reduce the stun time, but if you already put in the DI and then wiggle then once the stun time is over it will still take you out of the spin, so it's worth doing. Unless of course you know the timing of the stun time in which case you can just do a quick left or right as the stun ends and that should still take you of of the spin so you can dodge out.

 

[RedYoshi92]

This guide helped me alot.Thanks for making it

 

[sagemoon]

OH MY GOD. (this is one of my biggest pet peeves!)

this is the melee manual.



the GRAY ONE is the CONTROL STICK. the YELLOW ONE is the C STICK. please, for the love of god, get it straight people.

LOL the one that comes with the gc and controller says control stick for the right analog stick.

 

[RCD]

so after a fox up smash i can smash DI with the analog stick left/right and aslo AsDI with the c-stick down but ud have to be pressing downwards first??????????????????????????????????????????? im really counfused about AsDI

 

[SPAWN]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GCDsnCTmjoM

4:11 and 4:24

Does he just di normally straight up and then move to the right for both of those times?

 

[Jihnsius]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GCDsnCTmjoM

4:11 and 4:24

Does he just di normally straight up and then move to the right for both of those times?

Looks like up to up-left for the DI.

 

[wexs883198215]

awesome!
I didn't ahve any idea about what smash DI was!
thanks

 

[SPAWN]

Thanks, Jihnsius. I'll have to try that out because I thought Fox's bair sent you flying, so I thought he might have used some crazy di or something. Hopefully, I'll have the reaction time for it when it's used on me at that high of a percentage.

 

[SPAWN]

Sorry to double post, but it's been a while so I will.

Okay, so my friend was telling me that you have to have weird *** di in order to tech ground attacks.

So, to make this easy. How do I tech Falco's dsmash?

CC, then hit l/r right afterwards? Someone knowledgeable please help me.

 

[SCOTU]

Doraki, i can't believe i didn't post this earlier. This is one of the best posts in all of smashboards. I've referenced it several times. Moreover, It's probably the post that has saved my life the most times. Thank you for this amazing post, too bad you couldn't make it to FCD.

 

[Magus420]

Hmm. Any idea what happened here in this clip?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=AkHCoz5ML6o

It's from a few years ago, but I still don't have a definitive answer as to what exactly caused it. He didn't tech, didn't bounce off the stage, appeared to be stunned, continued to travel in the direction of the knockback (DIed towards the stage), but there wasn't really any knockback. He just kinda... fell.

The only thing that I can think of that makes sense is the invisible ceiling glitch... but I've seen that quite a lot and has always been related to hitting a shield and then counterattacking out of shield.


Actually, maybe he somehow got snagged on the wall without bouncing off of it which stalled for awhile then there wasn't nearly as much of the knockback left at that point. That'd be my best guess, but I'm not sure how that's possible from what I remember the stage walls looking like in AR.

 

[SCOTU]

@ Magus: I've had something very similar happen to me before as fox, i was stomped by a CF, and slid along the side like that, hung along the bottom, then proceded to (attempt unsuccsesfully) recover on the other side.

Also, i have a video i'll post when i get home, but what happens is i celing tech on the bottom of the right platform of japes, then imediately grab the edge. I'd like an explination if someone's got one.

 

[Doraki]

@ magus
it's weird... looks like he hits the wall, but the hit again the wall affected his trajectory in a very strange way instead of sending him straight down.

@ scotu
Teching under jungle japes's platforms into an instant edgehog sounds even more glitchy.
It would be broken if you could do it with normal edgetechs tough. You were still using fox ?

 

[Thino]

wow it really looks like an edgetech , followed by a ledge DI like in ssb64, i was pretty sure that kind of DI existed in some way in Melee too but it seems more glitchy there