A Guide to DI, Smash DI, C-stick DI, Teching and Crouch Cancelling --- Updated

[Magus420]

Anyway, a good marth will do an uptilt in those cases.

A good Fox/Falco will also hold down and behind as they try to jump so they'll be able to escape if the Marth uses an u-tilt in those cases.

So it appears Falco's dthrow and Jiggly's fthrow both have hitlag (can be smash DI'd, and fox can shine immediately out of them).

Having hitlag does not necessarily mean it can be smash DI'd. While Jiggs' f-throw can be, I don't think Falco's d-throw when used against Fox is smash DI'able (the final hit of the throw may very well be smash DI'able by every other character in the game, though it doesn't matter since they can tech) as it hits him when he's on the ground (see forbidden smash DI) which makes him bounce up unable to tech.

Speaking of Falco's d-throw vs Fox, I'm nearly certain the reason Fox is the only character unable to tech his throw is due to his immense fall speed acceleration. Every other character in the game is able to tech immediately following the 2nd laser hit which sends them straight down as they haven't reached the ground from the previous hit and hit the floor, whereas Fox lands on that frame it connects and is bounced upwards unable to tech. After getting popped up from the 2nd laser he again makes it to the ground as the 3rd laser connects and again is unable to tech. This 3rd laser hit is the one that sends him into the air. Every other character that fails to tech the 2nd laser hit will get hit by the 3rd laser, but will be hit by it while still in the air again and smack into the ground without being sent away.

However, though the 3rd hit most likely can't be smash DI'd by Fox, it can be ASDI'd like all moves with hitlag. You can't shine "immediately" out of either of the throws either. Well, I guess possibly with Jiggs' throw if you can manage to get multiple smash DIs in the few frames of hitlag and stay grounded, but that's not really going to happen in matches. Then again, if Jiggs throws you with more than 12-15 damage you'll be tumbling and fall to the ground anyway. Both moves will make you airborne, so you will incur landing lag. With Falco's throw the soonest you can act is 6 frames after Falco is able to by holding down and away plus down on the c-stick. At around 40, unless their timing is flawless, there's a good chance you can get out by holding down-away on the control stick and away on the c-stick and buffering a roll, and you should almost always be able to get a sidestep off which is slightly faster, but not as safe.

 

[Rye]

Ok, I read through all of these pages and I still can't get wall teching to work. The way I was testing this was having mario jump off the edge and have fox Dsmash his recovery. Here's the question: Do you press L/R BEFORE you get dsmashed or at the moment you get smashed? What I gathered from reading was that you could press it 20 frames before, so about 1/2 way through Mario's Up B. Also, you press toward the stage or Up. Now, do you simply HOLD towards the stage or again, do you have to smash it toward the stage at the time of impact?

Perhaps the way we're testing this is bad. The mario was usually at 0% when he was smashed. Does he need to be more damaged? Is there a better character combo/move set to train for wall teching while recovering?

 

[Doraki]

Mario needs to be more damaged. the downsmash isn't strong enough for him to tech it at 0%

Peach's downsmash is super easy to tech since it literally sends you into the wall so you don't have to care about DI.

With Doc Mario and Luigi, the moment you have to press L or R is when you do your up-B, it's easy.

 

[Cort]

Does anyone know the specific % people start getting "knocked back" from moves? It would be interesting to know so you can't complain "DAMMIT I teched that!"

>.>

 

[krynn]

Doraki, thx for the guide. i would never have known about "advanced" smash moves if i hadnt stumbled onto your Fox Movement Tricks video a few months ago on youtube. now i have two of your guides bookmarked in my browser. they have helped me a lot, and im playing much better. thx for making everything so clear and being polite, instead of "STFU you lamer/n00b!" please keep making guides if u ever find anything else that u think the rest of us can learn from. again, thx a ton!

 

[fenixkaldoran]

This thread is definitely godly blessed with words of wisdom...Imma start using the c-stick also...just ognna give it a test run on Onett (f-in cars!!!)

 

[Doraki]

Man, I'd like to see my movement tricks video that I probably made myself though I don't remember ever doing something like that and that is NOT on my ftp o_o

Oh and I'd also like to read my 2nd guide that doesn't exist ^^

Cort, I have a few data about moves and characters and % where you can tech / cc+tech / stay on the ground / die / whatever , though it's boring to do and I see nothing good looking at it. except weird and unpleasant things.

 

[Randall00]

I tried to read your second guide, but it Smash DI'ed out of existence.

 

[Itakio]

Hmm, I'm confused, would holding the C stick and control stick towards the stage after getting hit have a more efficient effect than just holding the control stick?

 

[Doraki]

no .

 

[{Poet}Kai]

Cort, I have a few data about moves and characters and % where you can tech / cc+tech / stay on the ground / die / whatever , though it's boring to do and I see nothing good looking at it. except weird and unpleasant things.

for all characters? I'd like to see Falco's and Marth's..

its it like a .pdf file or didnt you write that down..?

 

[kamikaze falco]

Great stuff doraki.

 

[Epsilon52]

nice work doraki. this has clarifiedalot about di that i didnt know.

 

[bluezaft]

So it turns out everything I thought I knew about DI is wrong.

So what I can gather is this: if I'm hit (let's say by Marths f-smash), the ideal way to DI is at first down during the SDI frames, then immediately perpendicular to my trajectory after SDI is done?

Also if I'm thrown forward by Marth and I'll get hit with the f-smash if I don't DI, is there a better way to do so than just away from Marth, since that's not perpendicular?

I've seen Jigglypuff tech Marth's f-smash while asleep. The way to do this is hold down and L? Or do I need to hit down on the control stick right when I get hit?

 

[soap]

Introduction :


Also, L-cancelling involves pressing L so you may want to learn to L-cancel without pushing the shoulder button the whole way (it's unnecesary), or to L-cancel with Z.
Just in case.

=)

so im assuming that clicking down R to shield the whole way down would have the same effect. Like for example yu try to shield a tipper but dont shield it in time and get smashed into the fin at corneria, you would be unable to tech, right? my question is can you get the max hard shield by pressing R all the way down till just right before it clicks?

 

[Doraki]

Chances are you press L/R during the hitlag frames if you're too late, so yes, you wouldn't be able to tech (unless you were really too late in which case you tech).
I don't think you can get that shield without having the button click. You can still get an intermediate shield if you're afraid to lose your tech though, it should be good enough, maybe a bit unusual to do at first.

 

[felix45]

Hmm, I have seen Jigglypuff DI out of Zelda's Fsmash when she missed a rest, how did the jigglypuff do it? was it all thanks to ASDI and holding towards zelda, or what?


Also, about regular DI, does that only work with the control stick, or can I use the Cstick for it as well?


I have made it a habbit as of now to always smash down with Cstick and left/right depending on which direction I'm being sent (so if a fsmash hits me to the right, control stick goes left, cstick is always down) and I was wondering if this is a good habit or is there some other better effective way to DI without having to think to much?

My biggest problem w/ DI is that if I think about it too much I wont DI at all and end up dieing.


Oh, and I'm not quite sure what you were saying by DI only works when you do it perpindicular, but does that mean if I'm getting hit say with an Fsmash that sends me to the right, will the only way that regular DI will help is if I jam the control stick up or down?

To me, from what I have seen, is that when I get up thrown holding left/right on the control stick seems to work very well, but when I get hit left/right usually my DI doesnt seem to help much.



Sorry if this is sore on your eyes, I understand if you dont answer all of my questions.

 

[GAwes]

felix the jiggly puff thing is just crouch cancelling, all you do i simply hold down and all of the frames of the move won't hit her


Doraki - you've saved me so much time and effort, thanks a ton. Now when people ask me about DI or "why you didn't die" i just refer them to this thread.

 

[Lucky_Sharmz19]

Why not we just sticky this thread now?

 

[Uno]

wow... really nice sh**

thanks alot for this. Best info was the tip on wallteching, I always knew i should press R before the hit, but now i know why.

sticky plz =)

 

[Lucky_Sharmz19]

Is anyone here gonna ask the mods to sticky this sexy topic?

 

[Itakio]

I'ts already in the "Official Everything" topic.

 

[rsc_390]

Could someone please take the time to remake this guide in video form? This is some complicated stuff and i'm having trouble trying to do this without visual help.

I know this is asking alot but it would be SO helpful. So anyone out there feel free to step right up...

 

[Doraki]

Well, instead of watching vids (and because my capture card has an awful lag), I'd advise to try for yourself in versus or training mode a few things :
Here's a list of I think everything you need to see to get all the aspects of DI :

About Regular DI :

Hold left or right as the opponent upthrow you. Instead of going straight up, that'll make you go to the side.
You can try holding down or up, you'll see that it does nothing.

A bowser on the edge of FD dies off the side of the level by Fox's forward smash at 100%.
Now, if you're holding your stick diagonally up and towards the stage when you're fsmashed, you live longer.
Inversely if you're holding your stick away from the stage and a bit down, you die earlier.
(note, if you want to take your time positioning the control stick, do a taunt, then prepare your DI, then get smashed.) (http://captainlama.free.fr/ssbm/exemple di.wmv) (yes it's in french)

About ASDI :

Try it against a fox that's doing a down-air on you.
taunt, move your C-stick or your control stick to the sides (try with only 1 stick, with both in the same direction, or with both in opposite directions), and ask your friend to shorthop drill you. Look, you moved.

If you don't have version 1.0, you can try it also against the super scope rapidfire (http://captainlama.free.fr/ssbm/exemple asdi.wmv)
or against sheik's A-A-A-A... move (or kirby's, fox's, falco's, falcon's etc...)

Note that trying to ASDI up or down does nothing.

If you want, you can try getting caught in fox's drill while you're jumping, and in that case, you'll be able to ASDI down or up, since you're in the air.

About Smash DI :

Do the same as above, but instead of holding a stick, smash your control stick to a side a lot, as fast as you can. You'll see that you move farther each time than using only ASDI.
Try escaping Fox's up aerial by Smash DIing the first hit up or diagonally up-left or up-right.

You can also experiment with Smash DI and ASDI when you're caught in Zapdos's thunder (watch perfect control 2), or when you're caught in a black hole (search for it if you don't know what it is)

Crouch cancelling without staying on the ground :

Hold the control stick down so that you're crouching, while you're holding the C-stick Up.
Now, get hit by anything. Instead of staying on the ground, you'll fly a bit. a lot less than without CCing but you still fly.
Of course, it never happens in real matches (I don't know if it can be useful)
Try it with Falco's shine !

About Smash DI + Tech

That one's a bit hard to do if you're alone.. go in training mode with samus on a stage with walls (like hyrule temple).
Set the opponent's damage to 100% or 999%. Place your opponent against a wall and downsmash him. He flies away.
Now, set the control to human, set speed to 1/2 or 1/4.
Make Player 2 taunt, during the taunt, have him press L. Downsmash with Player 1 as soon as possible, and smash the P2's control stick towards the wall right after it (you want to smash DI into the wall, so you need to be fast). If you did it right, Player 2 teched off the wall and doesn't fly anywhere. Yes, even at 999%.

More about Forbidden Smash DI :

If fox shines a peach when she's on the ground, she slides on the ground and doesn't fall.
You can try SDIing or ASDIing up all you want, peach will stay on the ground.
Now instead of peach, have fox shine a falco. He falls on the ground after the shine.
If you SDI or ASDI up, Falco will go up in the air a bit, and he'll be able to tech the shine by pressing L right after he's hit. whereas there's no time to do that (well only a 1-frame window) if falco doesn't SDI/ASDI up when he takes the shine.


Falco should be banned :

Have falco spike a fox at 0% while fox's in the air (for example, short hopping).
He has no stun when he lands. well, that's normal.
Have falco shine-down air a fox at 0%
even if fox is in the air when he gets hit by the spike, he's stilled stunned when he lands on the ground.
That's totally broken and makes no sense at all. there, falco is glitched.

Have a perfect controlled (or just technically decent) falco combo a fox with waveshine - spikes.
Try smash DIing everything in any way you want.
See ? falco can STILL combo fox up to 60% at least and that's even more broken.

That took a lot longer than I expected and I'm going to bed, or else I'll be ranting against falco for at least 10 hours. I'll have to put these things in the 1st post, but later..

 

[felix45]

so dorkai, I'm going to make a completley hypothetical situation, and you tell me which direction I should DI.

I go Directly up in the air from a hit. I should hold left or right correct?

In the air, I get hit directly right should I hold directly up?

after you answer this I think I should be set on how DI works.

 

[Wilhelmsan]

Is the DI's potency the same for all characters? Is it more effective with floaters because of the 'slow fall speed -> more horizontal distance' or does each character have a specific DI rating?

This should be known!

 

[rsc_390]

Okay, i'm going to try and repeat some of the stuff you said in my own words, to see if I understand correctly.

Regular DI is done by moving the control stick perpendicular to your flight path WHILE FLYING away.

SMASH DI is done during the hitlag, allowing you to move around the hitbox of the attack that is hitting you.

ASDI is the influence of the direction you are holding during the 1st frame after the hitlag.

So, should you, during the hitlag of sheik's chop, HOLD up on the C-Stick while TAPPING up on the control stick? Would that make you both SMASH DI + ASDI up?

---------------------------

If all of that is correct, then what Mario did in "Perfect Control" is Smash DI himself around the hitbox of the ball while being hit by it, so that when the hit animation ended, he was on the left side of the ball's hitbox and was sent flying left.

-----------------------------

Last question. How much more does ASDI effect the angle of your trajectory than Regular DI?

 

[Doraki]

rsc 390,

regular DI is done at the end of the hitlag, not after.

ASDI does the same as a smash DI but only goes half the way, and also happens at the end of the hitlag.
it doesn't effect the angle at all. (well, in fact, regular di and asdi are linked because you usually do both of them with the control stick at the end of the hitlag, but it's just 2 different effects of doing 1 thing)

about that perfect control clip, Mario is still sent to the right, because originally he was hit by the right part of the hitbox, and you can't change that.

wilhelmsan, it depends on a lot of things.. downwards acceleration, max fall speed, aerial control acceleration and max speed, stun time (relative to weight) ...
jigglypuff is terribly floaty, but has an insane aerial control coupled with an extremely low falling speed, so it's always better for her to DI to the sides as much as possible and not being sent straight up...

 

[Tizex]

wow, i just started to play again seriously for the first time since high school.

smash di...wow. would have been good to know. so you can't smash di grabs, except for the ones with hitlag?

to cc asdi tech....that works for every move that will send you horizontal? can you do it in say, the lag after an aerial attack? in the lag after a ground attack?

 

[Serendipity]

this stuff is too good *practices*

 

[Se><bot]

Very nice guide, I'm sure many people appreciate it.

 

[Randall00]

The only question I have about this is concerning the throws. In particular, I'm sure you're familiar with a collection of Ken clips demonstrating some of his more miraculous survivals thanks to DI.

One such clip is surviving a Peach f-throw at a ridiculous percentage. If throws cannot be Smash DI'ed, is that clip really nothing more than DI and ASDI at the perpendicular trajectory during the end of the hit lag? Or is Peach's f-throw one of the possible exceptions to the rule to consider?

 

[Magus420]

If you're talking about this: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=79631, then I explain there what his DI was for each clip in the video. It's nothing out of the ordinary, and certainly not what I'd consider 'ridiculous'. One of them he simply gets shield stabbed while not DIing at all and people think it's some kind of crazy DI when it's just the normal knockback of the move, LOL.

 

[Randall00]

Could be, I only ever watched the video once. Thanks, that's the perception I was trying to clear up; whether or not the clip was valid or not.

 

[TheBOSS]

doraki, quick question. i know how to di, sdi, tech, exc. but u mentioned something about the invisible ceiling tech or glitch. is that when ur sent directly upward with a utilt or up-smash and it would be almost certain KO, but ur character hits an invisible ceiling sort of thing at random elevations and is thus sent straight down as though u were meteorslammed? if so, it's happened to me quite a lot, is there a way to initiate that, do u know how? also, to be completely honest, i'm still not too sure about ceiling techs. could u possibly elaborate when u get a chance? thanks a ton pal, appreciate it.

 

[Cuno56]

Something about SDI/ASDI I don't get. How is ASDI different from SDI? Do you do the 'quarter-circle' DI for Regular DI, SDI, or what? Does SDI really help at all except for crazy hitlag moves? (charge-shot, fsmash tipper, etc.)

This really must be stickied.

 

[Doraki]

doraki, quick question. i know how to di, sdi, tech, exc. but u mentioned something about the invisible ceiling tech or glitch. is that when ur sent directly upward with a utilt or up-smash and it would be almost certain KO, but ur character hits an invisible ceiling sort of thing at random elevations and is thus sent straight down as though u were meteorslammed? if so, it's happened to me quite a lot, is there a way to initiate that, do u know how? also, to be completely honest, i'm still not too sure about ceiling techs. could u possibly elaborate when u get a chance? thanks a ton pal, appreciate it.

you play ffa or teams a lot ?

there's a way to initiate it, yes, have player 1 do a ground attack and player 2 block that move. Then have player 2 (or 3 or 4) hit player 1 (FAST). the ceiling glitch should occur.
It happens a lot more when there's more than 2 players, because it's generally difficult for player 2 to get out of his shield and attack fast enough.

It just happened yesterday and today to me, when I blocked luigi's down B (the last part of his down B was on the ground even though he started it in the air, it was counted as a ground move), and marth's Up-B (he was on the ground when he did it, I jumped at him after blocking and the upair spiked him... )

Other ways to do that is to be shielding on the edge of a platform and slide off of it when you block the move so you don't have shield stun at all.
Or you can do it on MK1's or Yoshi Island's blocks, if you use an attack that destroys the blocks, the opponent can block it and you'll both fall down instantly, then you can do the ceiling glitch.

You can't tech off the invisible ceiling.
It's a strange glitch, I can't see any logic to the moment you hit the ceiling.
Otherwise, teching on a ceiling is exactly like teching on a wall : press L before hitting it.

Cuno56, ASDI is very easy to do, since you only have to hold the control stick in a direction (like normal DI) Smash DI is better because if you do it right, you get both SDI and ASDI so it's 3 times the distance of an ASDI. So it IS useful in order to escape combos (when you aren't facing a falco because he justs cheat), and it is necessary to edgetech edgeguarding moves at high %.
If you're taking a tipper or whatever big move with no wall to tech on, SDI and ASDI makes very little difference, maybe you'll live at 1 or 2% more.

 

[TheBOSS]

very interresting, thanks a ton for answering my question of curiousity Doraki.
Appreciate it.

 

[Epsilon52]

doraki i would love it if u amde a video on these different forms of DI.

 

[Cuno56]

Ditto what he said ^. (well, I meant theBOSS originally, but ditto epsilon too /edit)

I actually didn't die when playing against my brother's Marth after I read that... SDI + edgetech = really long life.